Aimtrak module + Sega Virtua/HOTD Gun Shell?

[USSCrazybat]

I recently got back into House of the Dead, MAME and such, and I found a place that sells Ultimarc Aimtrak guns not only in the UK, but at a reasonable price, given today's awful GBP brexit mess. I have one in the mail, but I'm wondering - I see so many putting aimtrak modules into Namco recoil guns, which look amazing, and probably would be - but I'm a sucker for accuracy, and HOTD doesn't have recoil. What I'm wondering is it possible to mount an aimtrak module inside a Sega Virtua Cop/HOTD gun shell, and if so does anyone have experience with doing so?

I've only been able to find the shells themselves, without the trigger - and my knowledge of soldering extends to my grammar school technology classes, which, granted, weren't terrible - but I'd appreciate a nudge in the right direction. Does anyone have experience with converting sega hardware?

EDIT: I'm also considering using a Sega Stunner/Virtua Gun for the Saturn or Dreamcast, since those are considerably cheaper and easier to obtain - and they have the added functionality of an extra button. Not exactly accurate, but MAME guns should be multi-purpose...only problem is they come in that horribly bright orange. Might need to break out the spray paint...

[Titchgamer]

The accuracy will not be effected by what shell you put it in be it Sega or Aim Trak.
Assuming the components are mounted properly anyway!

Unless of course you mean accuracy of build.
In which case yeah there should be no reason why you cant retro fit the kit inside a original gun.

[Malenko]

I have mine inside a konami Justifier (Blue Lethal Enforcers gun) , I had one inside a nintendo zapper ; I mention this to prove that titch is correct, it doesnt matter what you put it in. There is PLENTY of room inside a Virtua Cop gun but you might need to dremel some of the plastic to make it fit.

As for recoil, we're on opposite ends of the spectrum. I think its neat for about 2 minutes then my wrist hates it. I turned it off or down on all the shooting cabs I owned that had it (RevX, T2, Virtua Cop,  and Area 51)

[USSCrazybat]

So, my Ultimarc gun arrived today...people weren't kidding about the calibration issues. I had it working perfectly for about five minutes after an hour of fretting...and then it started jumping about the place again/or not even registering on the IR. I'd like to think it's the IR strip, and the Super IR bar from ArcadeGuns.com is apparently better - but I can't keep constantly sinking money into this thing.

On the other hand, I've pinned down several Saturn Virtua Gun sellers on Ebay - I'm considering repainting the shell and adding a gloss finish, but the standard Euro blue that UK guns come in isn't half bad. I'm also looking at the Aimtrak kit - it comes with the sensor PCB, and crimped wires, but no trigger switch. Can I glue a Cherry switch behind the trigger and basically plug and play with the crimped wires from the Cherry to the PCB? I have little to no experience with these terms aside from what I've seen in pictures and videos, so I must sound like an idiot. I was also wondering if it was possible to basically hotwire the side START button on the Virtua gun with some of the crimped wires by just cutting, stripping and tying the wires together, then covering with electrical tape. Am I onto something? Or am I building an expensive fire hazard?

[BadMouth]

then it started jumping about the place again/or not even registering on the IR. I'd like to think it's the IR strip, and the Super IR bar from ArcadeGuns.com is apparently better - but I can't keep constantly sinking money into this thing.

It's more likely the lighting in the room.

I can't keep constantly sinking money into this thing.

Abandon this hobby now.

On the other hand, I've pinned down several Saturn Virtua Gun sellers on Ebay - I'm considering repainting the shell and adding a gloss finish, but the standard Euro blue that UK guns come in isn't half bad. I'm also looking at the Aimtrak kit - it comes with the sensor PCB, and crimped wires, but no trigger switch. Can I glue a Cherry switch behind the trigger and basically plug and play with the crimped wires from the Cherry to the PCB? I have little to no experience with these terms aside from what I've seen in pictures and videos, so I must sound like an idiot. I was also wondering if it was possible to basically hotwire the side START button on the Virtua gun with some of the crimped wires by just cutting, stripping and tying the wires together, then covering with electrical tape. Am I onto something? Or am I building an expensive fire hazard?

You'd more likely utilize whatever switch is already in the gun.  If it's on a PCB, you can leave all or part of the old PCB in there and solder wires to the switch.
Nothing wrong with just splicing wires, but I'd recommend solder and heat shrink tubing rather than twist 'n tape.
Probably not much of a fire hazard given you're dealing with extremely low current, but you could fry the Aim-Trak module or ruin your USB ports.

EDIT: looked up the gun out of curiosity and came across this: http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/virtua-gun-trigger-mod.45624/
It looks easy peasy to add a microswitch to the trigger.  Tons of room to work with inside that thing too.

[USSCrazybat]

What lighting do you recommend? I've got the sun coming in from the window behind the monitor, room's fairly bright in the day but I'm missing a bulb, so basically pitch black in the evening. You do raise a decent point about the money, though - only reason I'm indulging this thing for a bit is because I recently got quite a bit of money saved up and decided to go for it. Although I have always wanted to build a bartop, but I'll give that a few years.

Only reason I'm considering replacing the switch is because from what I've heard the microswitch that comes stock in the Stunner/Virtua gun isn't the best, and wears down over time. Plus, a cherry switch would actually feel like an arcade sega gun.

EDIT: Found a blue Virtua Gun trigger+shell on the cheap and ordered it. Considering the possibilities of buying a new kit or just moving the guts of my Ultimarc over to the blue gun.
EDIT II: Aimtrak's working fantastic now that it's evening. Also, I forgot how exhausting lightgun games were! Spent some time on Model 2 with HOTD, and on demul with HOTD2 and Ninja Assault. Struggling to set the controls with MAME, though, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.

[Titchgamer]

Glad you got them working properly but as you have prob discovered they dont like bright light or reflective surfaces (ie windows) so close the curtains and reclaibrate them and you should be fine :p

afraid I cant really help much with the how to go about mounting the kit in any specific guns as I just use the standard aim traks but I have seen them mounted in several different guns.

I guess it just depends how much you want to faff around with them but yes you should be able to use a standard Cherry switch its again a case of mounting etc.

Out of interest where did you get your aim traks from?

[USSCrazybat]

Calibration's all sorted out now - sunlight's clearly the issue. Don't know how it'll respond once I get a bulb in during the evenings - I hope it works, but thanks for your concern. I got my Ultimarc Aimtraks from arcadeworlduk.com - I stumbled on it by chance - since I live in the UK the Ultimarc guns were going for around £90 GBP plus upwards of £15 postage, and that's not even mentioning import charges. When all was said and done I paid around £71 with VAT and P&P included. From the looks of it, the only place I can get an uncased aimtrak module with the wiring kit, etc is the ultimarc website's store - final price for me - without the IR bar - £44. I have a blue Sega Stunner in the mail that I got for £10 off ebay - all I need now is a cherry switch, and some DIY creativity. I've got some ideas about how to secure the switch without gluing or actually modifying/cutting into the shell that much.

[Titchgamer]

They work ok with lamps on as long as they are not directly in the light so to speak.

I get nearly all my gear from AWUK.

Ultimarc is actually UK based so no import charges
I made the same mistake thinking they were US because of the site so dont worry lol.

[USSCrazybat]

Gun seems to work perfect even with a bright ceiling lamp. I've ordered a cherry switch w/ lever actuator, waiting on that as well as the Aimtrak module and the Stunner.

[USSCrazybat]

Stunner arrived, stripped out all the electronics. Aimtrak module should be arriving soon, the trigger switch after that. I'm looking to wire in the START button on the side of the gun, and from what I understand the Aimtrak OEM module comes with a white housing for the trigger wires - as well as having available space for another button. How would I go about feeding the wires from the other button into the housing?

[USSCrazybat]

Another episode in the "I don't want to Solder but I probably should to save myself the grief" show, I received the Aimtrak kit today. I was under the assumption that the crimped wires would come with plastic connectors that would slide over the microswitch and create a solderless connection, also allowing me to swap components when needed. The wires I received were crimped on both ends but had no such connectors. The wires seen on the OEM page on the Ultimarc website have what I believe are these connectors, so they must have sold them at some point. What I would like to know is whether or not these connectors actually exist and I'm not just hallucinating out of sheer technical ineptitude, and where to obtain them. I appreciate all the posts and help thus far, you guys are great!   

[Titchgamer]

Most micro switches accept standard spade crimps.

But there are 2 different sizes.

If you go to Maplins or screwfix or somewhere similar you can buy them in packs.

I assume they are the crimps you are referring to??

[USSCrazybat]

I wish I knew more about what I was talking about - even I can tell I'm making things difficult. Okay, so the spade crimps are the connectors that slide onto the microswitches. Got that. But the tiny black wires have tiny, tiny metal connectors on each end - are those not crimps?

[thet0ast3r]

I guess it would be more clear if you uploaded a picture of the wires, crimps and so on, I personally am not good with aimtrak because I don`t own one, but the owners would find it easier to help, I assumes.
As for the crimps, that`s the name of the things that neatly connect buttons to wires? I never knew what people where talking about .

[USSCrazybat]

Below is the entirety of the kit I received today, plus the cherry switch I received yesterday;



And this is the advertised kit on Ultimarc's website, complete with what I think are crimps on the end of their wires;

[thet0ast3r]

Ok, seem like they are missing/not included, You`ll either have to solder them (could be tricky on the board) or ask them for the wire? if you bought the oem kit from ultimarc.com directly.
It shouldn`t be too bad if its soldered, altough it`s not the nicest way.
Hmm, the connector for the button and trigger looks almost like an usb-to-pcb connector. ( i mean like the one connecting to the oem sensor bar)

[USSCrazybat]

I'm personally hoping that I can just go round to Maplins, buy these so-called 'spade crimps' and just slide them onto the contacts. Above all, I would like to have a minimum of mechanical work. I don't really want to modify the gun shells either.

EDIT; I contacted Andy at Ultimarc, he had this to say:

The thin wires are designed to be cut into two sections as they are double ended.
 
We don’t supply connectors on the switch end as we dont know what type of connector the switches used by the customer will have. Crimps are not really suitable for use with this type of wire so these would generally need to be soldered onto the switches.

[Titchgamer]

Well your kit pic is just a mess of cable as far as I can see :p

But if you are referring to the crimps on the orange/grey wires in the ultimarc kit then they are spade crimps.

If the cable is to thin to get a good crimp onto just strip extra back from the wire and double it up before crimping the end.

[USSCrazybat]

Thanks for the advice. Would you recommend some heatshrink to tidy everything up?

[Titchgamer]

Depends how good your making off is and what type of crimps you use really

But if you have any exposed bits then yeah shrink it.

[USSCrazybat]

Gonna go get the parts soon. This is kind of annoying, but I'm willing to deal with it - the only thing I'm afraid of is running out of wire length if I keep messing up the crimp. I thought I'd done my research - there's even this video where a guy has wired up a makeshift gun with what appears to be the pictured set of wires and crimps from the Ultimarc website:

[thet0ast3r]

You shouldn`t worry about the wires unless you don`t own soldering equipment, you can buy such wires almost everywhere.

[Titchgamer]

Even if the wire is to short you can just use a through crimp and extend it :p

[USSCrazybat]

F**k it. Maplins was closed. All this crimping business is just slowing me down. I know I'm not a complete idiot, so I'm just gonna solder, and put some heatshrink on. What I'm more concerned about at the moment is mounting the lens inside the arcade gun shell. The lens for the arcade gun rests inside a black cylindrical casing, whereas the lens for the stunner - which is what I'm using - does not. Either it's big enough to simply fill everything out, or I'm gonna have to figure out a DIY solution. Off the top of my head I'm thinking some kind of rubber ring around the lens?

[thet0ast3r]

Wait, lens?  I thought there was no lens infront of the gun, only a black IR cap ?
Or have you bought a lens to modify the range of the gun?

[USSCrazybat]

There's a clear plastic lens in the barrel of the stunner. I was just gonna stick that into the arcade shell, somehow...if the shell comes with an IR cap, that's great, though!

[Malenko]

late to the party, but those things are also called quick connects /qcs / quickconnectors, I usually see them called spade terminals never spade crimps.

you probably need .187s
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271386357046

[Titchgamer]

late to the party, but those things are also called quick connects /qcs / quickconnectors, I usually see them called spade terminals never spade crimps.

you probably need .187s
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271386357046

I think spade terminals refer to the terminals the spade crimps push on to.

[Malenko]

late to the party, but those things are also called quick connects /qcs / quickconnectors, I usually see them called spade terminals never spade crimps.

you probably need .187s
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271386357046

I think spade terminals refer to the terminals the spade crimps push on to.

They are spade disconnects , but people call them the wrong thing all the time, like spade crimps

[Titchgamer]

Always been called crimps in this part of the world

You also get ferrule, bullet, fork and loop/ring lol

Oh and through haha

[Malenko]

I think I see the confusion now, at least what confused me.

The spade is the type of connector (male end) and other types include fork (2 prong), bullet (rounded like the insides of a standard PC power molex connector) , and ring/loop

the terminal or quick connect end is the receiving end of the connector, the "female end"

The crimp refers to how the connector or terminal connect to the wire the ferrule is usually inside a plastic or rubber "sleeve". There may be geographical differences in vernacular but a lot of places cater to American linguistics so it might be easier to find what he's looking for using terms from this side of the pond.



Side note, I work in IT at a rigging company, so when I see ferrule I think the metal band at the loop end of wire rope (usually has a thimble inside the loop too) but we call them swages or grommets more commonly

[Titchgamer]

Well he is uk based same as me but to be fair I think anybody will know what you are after regardless of the word you stick on the end be it crimp, terminal or something else haha.

I am an electrician though and grommets over here are little rubber inserts that go inside holes so there you go :p

Also a ferrule crimp is a sort of cylindrical end similar to the bullet but its designed to go inside screw down terminals or maintenance free terminals.

But yes you are right the spade refers to the type of connection and you have a male and female end same as most other connectors (bar fork and loop obv)

The male is the one that goes inside the female (obviously :p)

[Malenko]

Well he is uk based same as me but to be fair I think anybody will know what you are after regardless of the word you stick on the end be it crimp, terminal or something else haha.

I am an electrician though and grommets over here are little rubber inserts that go inside holes so there you go :p

Haha yeah, but rigging terminology is crazy. They have like 50 names for everything that have the  tiniest things different about them

The male is the one that goes inside the female (obviously :p)

 

[USSCrazybat]

Anyone know a decent replacement for the standard SEGA IR cap? I've been looking at the schematics for the gun - the damned arcade shell hasn't arrived yet - and from the looks of it the only way to cover the barrel is one whole piece of translucent black plastic that slips inside the barrel and screws in behind it.

This piece only comes attached to SEGA gun sensor kits - which is obviously as expensive as hell. Would anyone have any idea about a DIY replacement? If worst comes to worst I'm sure I could superglue the stunner lens in, but then again, accuracy

[thet0ast3r]

Well, I haven`t found anything suitable yet, but i`m guessing some plastic tube should do the job.
FYI: the inside diameter of the muzzle is exactly 20mm.
If you find something, let me know!

EDIT:
Something like this:
http://www.poolpowershop.de/pool/pvc-rohre-fittings-zubehoer/pvc-rohr-zubehoer/brpvc-hart-rohr-d-20-mm?adword=google/AT/Shopping%20|%20Gamma%20|%20AT/&gclid=Cj0KEQjw6am-BRCTk4WZhLfd4-oBEiQA3ydA3ijm01j9Njlzx5S-DekKINp9j5eJeJLeuJw0sw2E8bMaAtyF8P8HAQ

[Titchgamer]

Do you just want something to fit inside the muzzle tohide the hole? If so see if you can get a offcut of tinted poly carb and cut it to size then a dab of glue.

[thet0ast3r]

Woow, I just noticed, the aimtrak board should be 16mm wide and 10 mm height, so it just baaarely fits inside the muzzle without a tube.. :/

[USSCrazybat]

Woow, I just noticed, the aimtrak board should be 16mm wide and 10 mm height, so it just baaarely fits inside the muzzle without a tube.. :/

If I could find an appropriate DIY replacement, I could cut across the tube and let the PCB slot in on both sides - give it some proper support.

[USSCrazybat]

Well, it looks like I need an actual arcade trigger spring as well - I failed to realise that since the fixings for the gun are on the other side on the arcade shell, the spring is also reversed. The search goes on!