Paint coming out horrible!

[Guywiththegun]

The past 3 days have been a nightmare when it comes to my cab.  I used Kilz primer (3 coats) and was pretty happy with it how it was shaping up. I did some research and got some Behr semi-gloss black paint at Home Depot. Now, I'm not an expert at this stuff, but my spider-sense did go off a bit when I read "Paint & Primer in 1" on the can . .

Well, I put on one coat, and got some pretty nasty roller marks and inconsistencies. No big deal as I was gonna sand down with 400 grit sandpaper before the next coat. Next coat, even WORSE roller marks. I don't mean a few marks here or there . . it seems pretty much EVERY roll leaves some kind of mark or inconsistent texture compared to the next roll. I started to question my technique. Normally I do a kind of V/W type thing to get the cab covered, then go back over to smooth things out (but being careful not to go over it too many times or after its dried). So I watched some videos and saw people using more of an up/down stroke, going VERY lightly and going over the paint many times to smooth it out. That was my next strategy. I also got some Floetrol which is supposed to eliminate roller marks and mixed it with the paint.

Even worse. I did MORE research and learned some people suggest keeping a wet roller/edge and NOT going over the paint much at all (except very lightly at the very end to even things out).  I tried this (admittedly without sanding the coat underneath). 4 strikes, I'm out. I've tried EVERYTHING. Every tip, every strategy. Light strokes, heavy strokes, wet roller, not-as-wet roller . .

I give up. I looked online and I'm seeing lots of people having issues with this Behr paint. Going to get a couple different brands tomorrow to do some testing (Thinking Benjamin Moore and Rustoleum).  I just sanded one side down (again), but started to get coats chipping away to previous coats in little spots. Sanding has made it somewhat smooth but not entirely . .Please tell me I'm gonna be safe to paint over the remains of all these failed coats and I don't have to strip anything? I don't need this thing to be museum quality but I need it to look good.

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.

[Ian]

I work for Sherwin Williams so I have a couple of tips you can try.

Some pointers for you moving forward.. Make sure the paint isn't tinted black. Make sure it is prepackaged. That tint they add can be a game changer. Second don't do your standard latex paint. The Behr premium is meant to go on drywall... and even then it isn't the best paint for that. I suggest going with a water based ENAMEL. This will ensure a very hard durable finish. Second thing I recommend is always use a primer. If you are going with black paint have the paint store tint up a dark gray primer. This will save you coats. Don't use a polyester roller. Go with a Nylon Polyester blend, or better yet for the smoothest finish go with a Mohair roller. These have very little stipple giving you a great finish. I personally went with sherwin williams, I primed my cabinet with a dark gray primer. I used All Surface Enamel Waterbased Enamel prepackaged black. I used a miniroller with a flock foam cover (think of a flock foam roller as a very sturdy very high quality foam roller). I had great success..


Some points to your problems... I always recommend keeping a wet edge on the roller to avoid roller marks. If that doesn't work it's probably a combination of paint and the type of roller. Not all rollers are created equal. I hope this helps. If you have any questions feel free to Pm me.

Ian   

[Ian]

Oh... Sorry didn't see that last question... You should be fine to re-coat over what you have. I still recommend giving the cab a real good sanding to make sure everything is as smooth as possible. Should be able to go right over that with the right paint. Good luck!

[Guywiththegun]

I appreciate the response! I actually used a 4", then a 6" foam roller when I thought it might help with marks. Would you suggest I ditch that? I've read a lot of people in this hobby swear by foam rollers, but after this incredible disaster I'm ready to go back to square 1. Also, this may sound like a stupid question but do the ridges in a paint tray matter? For example:



I'm using the ridges there to get excess paint off and the pattern of the ridges translates onto the cabinet. Is this screwing things up too? I think its the paint. On one coat I even saw the pattern of my button holes in the control panel, below the actual holes. The hole pattern was getting onto the foam roller somehow and creating a near identical pattern. And it dried that way. I couldn't see it when the pain was wet. Insanity!

[yotsuya]

I've learned to just go with the Sherwin - Williams paint that Ian recommended myself. The finish is excellent. Yes, it's more expensive, but you can't beat the results.

[michelevit]

Ditch the rollers and paintrbrushes. Get a cheap air compressor and spray rustoleum satin black from a can through a harbor freight HVLP gun. This is best way to paint a cabinet. No brush marks. Looks pro. Holds up much better than brushed paint. Once your done sell your air compressor and HVLP gun on craigslist.

[Ian]

I appreciate the response! I actually used a 4", then a 6" foam roller when I thought it might help with marks. Would you suggest I ditch that? I've read a lot of people in this hobby swear by foam rollers, but after this incredible disaster I'm ready to go back to square 1. Also, this may sound like a stupid question but do the ridges in a paint tray matter? For example:



I'm using the ridges there to get excess paint off and the pattern of the ridges translates onto the cabinet. Is this screwing things up too? I think its the paint. On one coat I even saw the pattern of my button holes in the control panel, below the actual holes. The hole pattern was getting onto the foam roller somehow and creating a near identical pattern. And it dried that way. I couldn't see it when the pain was wet. Insanity!

I really don't care for the traditional black foam mini rollers. I think they are made cheaply. However that Flock Foam roller I mentioned is really a wonderful roller. And the ridges are only there to take off excess paint. You don't want to load your rollers with too much paint. It can cause a mess. Do what I posted and you will be just fine. Thanks!

[Ian]

I've learned to just go with the Sherwin - Williams paint that Ian recommended myself. The finish is excellent. Yes, it's more expensive, but you can't beat the results.

Ive been in the paint industry long enough to know that Benjamin Moore and Sherwin Williams are probably the best paints out there. Why? Because they don't skimp out on raw materials like Behr and Glidden. That is also why the stuff is expensive. You get what you pay for. I have taken that as a life motto. If you want something of quality... pay for it.

[yotsuya]

I've learned to just go with the Sherwin - Williams paint that Ian recommended myself. The finish is excellent. Yes, it's more expensive, but you can't beat the results.

Ive been in the paint industry long enough to know that Benjamin Moore and Sherwin Williams are probably the best paints out there. Why? Because they don't skimp out on raw materials like Behr and Glidden. That is also why the stuff is expensive. You get what you pay for. I have taken that as a life motto. If you want something of quality... pay for it.

Yeah, I used SW paints on Macross and my sister's Mr. + Mrs. Pac cab... no comparison.

[leapinlew]

For house painting, I've used a ton of Glidden and I'm happy with it. My last house I did over 20 gallons of Glidden but I also did some SW and Behr. My preference for the money was Glidden.

For cabs... I think I've done a bit of everything before I settled on using either a ton of art or laminate.

[Guywiththegun]

I used the SW paint and I see a big difference. Not perfect (one side in particular sucks), but I think I can blame myself this time as I was kind of over-eager and ended up going over the same paint too many times. I'm being over-careful with roller marks now. I need to just take a breathe and go back to my original instincts.

Still, even the bad side looks better than it did with the Behr paint, and at least I know I can trust this paint. Anyone suggest throwing some of that Floetrol in this?

As a side note, I went back to my control panel that I painted with the Behr paint and began sanding to get the SW paint on . . The Behr paint was chipping and leaving holes all the way to the primer. Impossible to get smooth. That paint really SUCKS. I had to take it all the way down to the primer/wood. I'll throw another coat of primer onto it this week. My artwork has shipped so I'm kind of bummed I won't be able to just throw it on there yet. If only I knew about the SW paint a week ago. Lesson learned, not all paints are created equal and you get what you pay for.

[MartyKong]

Just a thought if you went with semi latex. Latex paint still needs time to cure even though it may be dry to touch. Mine stayed very slightly tacky about a week. How long should you allow latex to cure before applying artwork?

[Ian]

Just a thought if you went with semi latex. Latex paint still needs time to cure even though it may be dry to touch. Mine stayed very slightly tacky about a week. How long should you allow latex to cure before applying artwork?

Most waterbased paints will not fully cure (harden and be 100% durable) until 30 days after you paint. So yeah i am not surprised it's chipping and I bet you could scratch off most of the paint with your nails. That's normal.

Also Floetrol will always help your paint flow out a little better, because it gives you a longer working time (longer wet edge). So things like roller marks always level out.

[Ian]

For house painting, I've used a ton of Glidden and I'm happy with it. My last house I did over 20 gallons of Glidden but I also did some SW and Behr. My preference for the money was Glidden.

For cabs... I think I've done a bit of everything before I settled on using either a ton of art or laminate.

Yeah, I am not going to go on here and specifically slam other companies... and if you got that impression I guess that was me not wording my post correctly. I was just stating that some companies charge more because there are a lot of things that go into the paint that make sure they last a long time. Out of our exterior lines our bare bottom paint is A-100 which has a 15 year warranty! That's better than most paint companies top of the line. And we only go up from there.

I am glad you like Glidden paint though. As long as you are happy and the house looks great, you cant complain! 

[leapinlew]

For house painting, I've used a ton of Glidden and I'm happy with it. My last house I did over 20 gallons of Glidden but I also did some SW and Behr. My preference for the money was Glidden.

For cabs... I think I've done a bit of everything before I settled on using either a ton of art or laminate.

Yeah, I am not going to go on here and specifically slam other companies... and if you got that impression I guess that was me not wording my post correctly. I was just stating that some companies charge more because there are a lot of things that go into the paint that make sure they last a long time. Out of our exterior lines our bare bottom paint is A-100 which has a 15 year warranty! That's better than most paint companies top of the line. And we only go up from there.

I am glad you like Glidden paint though. As long as you are happy and the house looks great, you cant complain! 

Don't get me wrong either. Your expertise in this field is very much welcome. I was happy with SW, but not happy with the cost. I get that more goes into it, but for me, in this application, it wasn't worth it. I was the most unhappy with Behr. Poor coverage and high cost.

[yotsuya]

I've used Glidden for the house exterior with great results. But for cabs, SW is my preferred paint.

[Aceldamor]

Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkb9FS78EHhx3rLJSb0qUZA

Part 4 is how to paint using rolers, to get a great finish.

[Guywiththegun]

Just a thought if you went with semi latex. Latex paint still needs time to cure even though it may be dry to touch. Mine stayed very slightly tacky about a week. How long should you allow latex to cure before applying artwork?

Most waterbased paints will not fully cure (harden and be 100% durable) until 30 days after you paint. So yeah i am not surprised it's chipping and I bet you could scratch off most of the paint with your nails. That's normal.

Also Floetrol will always help your paint flow out a little better, because it gives you a longer working time (longer wet edge). So things like roller marks always level out.

Whoa, I should wait 30 days before putting on artwork?? It just came in yesterday and looks amazing. I can't wait to put it on. Honestly I've been sanding/putting on additional coats just after a couple hours . . I'm guessing that was stupid. How long should you typically wait before sanding down and putting on additional coats?

[Ian]

Dry time is usually under 30 minutes.. however recoat time should be 4 hours.