Feedback please for 4 player build options

[Rockstead]

I would like to get some feedback on what I would like to have built; I was in contact with a reputable Canadian builder only a few hours from me, I’m really hoping it will happen.
Thanks to everyone in the original thread and the PMs from Ian and especially Zallax who answered my PMs and explained different control types, button layout,mock-up, and on)‎

I understand it will still be too messy for some, I haven’t committed to anything, I'm trying to keep it cleaner.

Please point me in the right direction if I’m wrong (aside from needing 4 players).

I also re-thought the whole purpose of this cabinet, and it won’t be to play console games. If I want to play console games on it, I will just use wireless gamepads and play them the way they were meant to be played.

4 Player panel Pedestal design, no angled sticks, ergonomic button placement.

For Player 1 and 2. I keep going back between 6 button Capcom layout,  7 (neo geo/capcom ) ,8 button, square like Capcom, arched for fingers, angled for better ergonomics, no idea.

4 button for player 3 and 4, any reason to have more?

Super Happ 8-way Mechanical Rotary for Player 1 and 2 – I heard this would look, play, and feel exactly like the Super Happ 8-ways, I worry that it will slip and rotate on the user during non rotary games. If I hate it, I could swap in regular 8-way Super Happs, I need to hear from people that went with these and use them for non rotary 8-way games that require a lot of movement.

Super Happ 8-Way for player 3 and 4.

4-way Sanwa Zippy joystick for 4-way games.

Trackball Happ 3" with mounting plates. Haven’t decided if I should go lit or not.

Spinner: TurboTwist 2 with the Enery Storage Cylinder, Blackhawk or TurboTwist High-Low. I know I probably won’t play DOT much, but given the opportunity to keep the same real-estate with more game support, I’m all for the extra expense if it all works well with everything spinner related. I’ll play Arkanoid, I love that game.


Flight Stick / Tron Stick. Could I just use the player 1 8-way and button combination instead for Afterburner, tron, and anything else that requires this type of control?

PC requirements: Not sure if I should just put an I7 to future proof it, or which 3d card, Windows 10 64bit, 500GB SSD for bootup, 6TB software drive, how much memory.

On/Off and Reset switch behind panel

Dual Wired AimTrak with recoil and holsters. I love light gun games and so does my son. Time Crisis Series, House of the Dead, Operation Wolf, T2, anything and everything that uses a gun. I see they put out a large sensor bar for large panel displays.

Integrated Dual USB on the front panel for light guns, and other accessories.

Are there Mame Dance Pad games, another game the family loves and I would consider purchasing 2 x Heavy Duty metal pads in the future, will it connect via the 2 front USB ports I want or does it have to hook up like an arcade controller and directly to the PC, I just want to consider what ports I would need on the front of the cabinet to future proof for this add-on, same would go for Guitar Hero type games, if they exist for Mame.

Speaker and sub woofer with audio controls integrated on front (sub volume, aux input, headphone, main volume all on one module): Maybe Cyber Acoustics 3062, I’ve seen it recommended, not sure.

Steering wheel: I would love to play 2 very different genres, Sprint series and Daytona. I see some people use Thurstmaster Ferrari GT, I think it comes with peddles. I saw the ones that go on a spinner but that won’t work in my config, I do love authentic arcade peddles Not sure how that and a wheel would integrate in to the Pedestal design, do you just lay the peddles it in front of the cabinet and that works well? Do you clamp steering wheel?

Artwork: Where can I get nice art work for a Pedestal Control panel and body, I would be willing to pay to have someone design, or maybe there is a collection of this type of art work already made for Pedestals that I can just choose from? I read that it should be done in polycarbonate, I don’t want my kids or drunk friends to be able to ruin this, I want it arcade quality.

Coin Door: 2 reasons, gives it that arcade feel, and I would like to limit the kids to a certain amount of tokens and have them appreciate this stuff, sometimes unlimited play can ruin things. I’m just not crazy about the Pedestal design that have coin doors because they become boxy, unless there is a design that works and doesn’t take away leg room the kids might need.

RGB buttons that would indicate which controls the person has to use, it will be cool if there was a digital button that could display the function of the control per game (like for this game it would say shoot, and this one it would be jump) or maybe no RGB at all and just classic buttons.

Can I program Hyperspin to show the user a visual of the buttons and functions and which to use per game?

Gamepads: for Non Arcade games, maybe I can just use my old 360 wireless controllers, but it’s low on my list. I think I will need a transmitter.

Thanks again

[zallax]

The flight stick is needed for Tron because on certain sub games one hand has to be on a spinner. 

For the dance pads, StepMania might be better than MAME.

As for button instruction, I remember one cab where they embedded a small touch screen above the trackball for info like that. 

[Rockstead]

The flight stick is needed for Tron because on certain sub games one hand has to be on a spinner. 

For the dance pads, StepMania might be better than MAME.

As for button instruction, I remember one cab where they embedded a small touch screen above the trackball for info like that.

Any creative work around to get Tron sub games to work with just the spinner and stick/button control and no Tron Stick? I thought there would be more games that require it. So no issues with Afterburner I was a big fan. I used to love the cab that you sat in and it moved but I remember playing it on upright cabs too.

Thanks, I didn't know about StepMania. does it play as nice as the Dance games in the Arcades, is there a good song list available? Can it play two players at once and split the screen?

the button displaying the text is a pipe dream, can the button layout be visually programmed in Hyperspin and it shows the user what to press?

[BadMouth]

For Player 1 and 2. I keep going back between 6 button Capcom layout,  7 (neo geo/capcom ) ,8 button, square like Capcom, arched for fingers, angled for better ergonomics, no idea.

6 buttons unless you plan to also use a modern console or play Steam PC games on it, then go for 8.
I have a neo geo themed cab and went with 7 buttons to maintain the neo geo 4 in a row.
After having it a while, I discovered that for 4 button games I prefer to use the top 3 on the first row and hit the first in the bottom row with my thumb for the 4th button.  It works much better than the original layout IMO and works with the MAME defaults (you don't have to remap).  So I have the 7th button and choose not to use it for Neo Geo games.  It does come in handy as a universal "tag team" button across emulated and PC games.  My logic for having 8 if playing steam games is that is what commercially sold fight sticks have so a few of the games expect that many.  You can still get by with 6 for most of the PC fighting games, but 8 will be more future proof.  (I do think 8 looks ugly, so I'd have the two on the end black, grey, or the color of the background art)  Most modern PC games require dual analog controls and a ton of buttons which doesn't translate well to arcade controls.  For PC games you pretty much have the fighting games, some shmups, & a few platformers.  I have maybe 20 steam games on my cab and have probably bought 30 that looked like they would work with arcade controls, but turned out not to.

4 button for player 3 and 4, any reason to have more?

No 4 player game in MAME uses more than 4 buttons.  In fact only the 2 dungeons and dragons games use 4.  The rest only use 3.
There are emulated 4 player console games that use more, but those consoles were new enough to have analog thumbsticks which don't always translate well to arcade controls.  I'd only do 3, but I recommend you do 4.   

Spinner: TurboTwist 2 with the Enery Storage Cylinder, Blackhawk or TurboTwist High-Low. I know I probably won’t play DOT much, but given the opportunity to keep the same real-estate with more game support, I’m all for the extra expense if it all works well with everything spinner related. I’ll play Arkanoid, I love that game.

I built a homemade spinner and found that I didn't use it for anything but the 360 degree wheel driving games like Pole Position and Ivan Stewarts Off Road.
Decided not to bother with one on my newest cab.

Steering wheel: I would love to play 2 very different genres, Sprint series and Daytona. I see some people use Thurstmaster Ferrari GT, I think it comes with peddles. I saw the ones that go on a spinner but that won’t work in my config, I do love authentic arcade peddles Not sure how that and a wheel would integrate in to the Pedestal design, do you just lay the peddles it in front of the cabinet and that works well? Do you clamp steering wheel?

See the noob thread stickied in the driving cab subforum.  PC wheels like the Thrustmaster don't work well for the old games where the wheel spun all the way around endlessly.  Use the spinner for those or get a second spinner with a wheel adapter.


All of us thought we'd build a single machine to play them all
...and we all came to the conclusion that a machine that tries to do everything doesn't do anything in particular all that well.
Especially not if you don't have the knowledge of setting up and tweaking these specialized controls.  They aren't plug and play like a simple joystick.

My advice is to concentrate on the standard joystick games and maybe throw in a spinner and trackball if you like those games.
If you want wheels, pedals, analog flightsticks, etc...do it on a separate machine.  Doesn't have to be a cab.
Could just be a wheel and pedals at a desk.

As far as dance pads go, I picked up some cheap for the original xbox and then bought adapters to use them on the PC.
Downloaded everything available for stepmania, set it up, used it two or 3 times, and they've been sitting in closet ever since along with the mounted guns.

[yotsuya]

^^^
If ever I could use a like / reputation button, it would be now for BadMouth. Excellent advice.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

[PL1]

It's great to see your enthusiasm, but before you get too far down the "one all-encompassing build" road, you may want to review the design process in the FAQ.

Another thing that will help you build your skills is to start with a modest test-bed build (like a simple fightstick) that will allow you to:
-- Try different sticks/buttons/layouts until you find what works for you
-- Practice and refine the construction and finishing skills involved in a build

IMHO, it's better to learn that your painting skills are . . . unacceptably poor . . . on some scrap wood or a disposable test-bed build than on an otherwise perfect 4-player pedestal/panel where you've invested a lot of money and a month of build-time.

If you can't do a good job building a doghouse, how well do you expect to do at building your dream-house?

For Player 1 and 2. I keep going back between 6 button Capcom layout,  7 (neo geo/capcom ) ,8 button, square like Capcom, arched for fingers, angled for better ergonomics, no idea.

Building test panels is your friend.   

4 button for player 3 and 4, any reason to have more?

For MAME? No.
http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=FAQ#Number_of_player_buttons

Super Happ 8-way Mechanical Rotary for Player 1 and 2 – I heard this would look, play, and feel exactly like the Super Happ 8-ways, I worry that it will slip and rotate on the user during non rotary games.

Since there are no rotary switch detents (the grooves that cause the switch to click into position), a Happ Super handle turns far easier than a Happ Rotary stick handle.

It won't be an issue.   

4-way Sanwa Zippy joystick for 4-way games.

Zippyy joysticks are Seimitsu LS-32 knock-offs.

Worth looking into, but you may also want to look at other 4-way options.

Flight Stick / Tron Stick. Could I just use the player 1 8-way and button combination instead for Afterburner, tron, and anything else that requires this type of control?

Picture playing Tron with one hand on the joystick, one hand on the spinner and one hand on the fire button . . .      

That takes us back to steps 2 and 4 of the design process in the FAQ:  Make a list of games you can't live without and see what controls they need.


Scott

[BadMouth]

It's great to see your enthusiasm, but before you get too far down the "one all-encompassing build" road, you may want to review the design process in the FAQ.

Another thing that will help you build your skills is to start with a modest test-bed build (like a simple fightstick) that will allow you to:
-- Try different sticks/buttons/layouts until you find what works for you
-- Practice and refine the construction and finishing skills involved in a build

IMHO, it's better to learn that your painting skills are . . . unacceptably poor . . . on some scrap wood or a disposable test-bed build than on an otherwise perfect 4-player pedestal/panel where you've invested a lot of money and a month of build-time.

If you can't do a good job building a doghouse, how well do you expect to do at building your dream-house?

....he's still having someone else build it for him. 

[yotsuya]

It's great to see your enthusiasm, but before you get too far down the "one all-encompassing build" road, you may want to review the design process in the FAQ.

Another thing that will help you build your skills is to start with a modest test-bed build (like a simple fightstick) that will allow you to:
-- Try different sticks/buttons/layouts until you find what works for you
-- Practice and refine the construction and finishing skills involved in a build

IMHO, it's better to learn that your painting skills are . . . unacceptably poor . . . on some scrap wood or a disposable test-bed build than on an otherwise perfect 4-player pedestal/panel where you've invested a lot of money and a month of build-time.

If you can't do a good job building a doghouse, how well do you expect to do at building your dream-house?

....he's still having someone else build it for him. 

Can someone check the Scottbot for a failing drive?

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

[Rockstead]

For Player 1 and 2. I keep going back between 6 button Capcom layout,  7 (neo geo/capcom ) ,8 button, square like Capcom, arched for fingers, angled for better ergonomics, no idea.

6 buttons unless you plan to also use a modern console or play Steam PC games on it, then go for 8.
I have a neo geo themed cab and went with 7 buttons to maintain the neo geo 4 in a row.
After having it a while, I discovered that for 4 button games I prefer to use the top 3 on the first row and hit the first in the bottom row with my thumb for the 4th button.  It works much better than the original layout IMO and works with the MAME defaults (you don't have to remap).  So I have the 7th button and choose not to use it for Neo Geo games.  It does come in handy as a universal "tag team" button across emulated and PC games.  My logic for having 8 if playing steam games is that is what commercially sold fight sticks have so a few of the games expect that many.  You can still get by with 6 for most of the PC fighting games, but 8 will be more future proof.  (I do think 8 looks ugly, so I'd have the two on the end black, grey, or the color of the background art)  Most modern PC games require dual analog controls and a ton of buttons which doesn't translate well to arcade controls.  For PC games you pretty much have the fighting games, some shmups, & a few platformers.  I have maybe 20 steam games on my cab and have probably bought 30 that looked like they would work with arcade controls, but turned out not to.

I don't play PC games today, no steam, I don't plan to. If I ever did, I would want a Gamepad. This machine will have a no Mincecraft rule, that's all the kids want to play and they can use the console for that.

I kind of like this because it keeps both the Capcom and Neo Geo, but I've seen threads from senior members that swear by the Capcom 6. Is there a consensus on the designs that use this combination but arch the buttons versus the square? or use the following arched? or if Neo Geo plays fine with 6, maybe it's not necessary. I see a lot of people mention NBA Jam , 2 on 2 open Ice when they talk about the 7 too, I loved NBA JAM.
                                                                                               XXX
                                                                                               XXX
                                                                                              X 
 

Spinner: TurboTwist 2 with the Enery Storage Cylinder, Blackhawk or TurboTwist High-Low. I know I probably won’t play DOT much, but given the opportunity to keep the same real-estate with more game support, I’m all for the extra expense if it all works well with everything spinner related. I’ll play Arkanoid, I love that game.

I built a homemade spinner and found that I didn't use it for anything but the 360 degree wheel driving games like Pole Position and Ivan Stewarts Off Road.
Decided not to bother with one on my newest cab.

Does every type of spinner (even push/pull) just pop off like that?

All of us thought we'd build a single machine to play them all
...and we all came to the conclusion that a machine that tries to do everything doesn't do anything in particular all that well.
Especially not if you don't have the knowledge of setting up and tweaking these specialized controls.  They aren't plug and play like a simple joystick.

My advice is to concentrate on the standard joystick games and maybe throw in a spinner and trackball if you like those games.
If you want wheels, pedals, analog flightsticks, etc...do it on a separate machine.  Doesn't have to be a cab.
Could just be a wheel and pedals at a desk.

As far as dance pads go, I picked up some cheap for the original xbox and then bought adapters to use them on the PC.
Downloaded everything available for stepmania, set it up, used it two or 3 times, and they've been sitting in closet ever since along with the mounted guns.

Honestly, that's exactly what I am trying to do, I was trying to convince myself to drop Tron Stick and cut down on buttons, but I would still do a spinner and trackball.

Same for the driving, if it isn't integrated then I haven't cluttered my machine or impacted regular controls, something I can put away or get rid of if I don't use. I'll check the thread you mentioned to see how people do it.

I have 4 kids (younger than teens), we live on a street that is full of kids, those kids are at our place all the time (we made the decision to be that house, which is fine because we know where are kids are), we don't vacation (can't afford it with 4 kids), we do 4 x birthday parties at our house, we want to have more family nights, I do a guy's night once a month, we will use the dance pads. I'm just trying to think of whatever connection I would need in the front of the cabinet to plug it in, I'm confused if any of this stuff would connect via USB or do I need a different type of port, if the kids want to use this, I don't want them moving the Pedestal, touching the PC, I'm trying to think of it from that perspective too.

[PL1]

....he's still having someone else build it for him. 

Shhhh.  I'm trying to convince him that the best way to find what he likes is to build a few el-cheapo test panels.

With any luck, he'll have fun and join us in DIY-land. 

Can someone check the Scottbot for a failing drive?

I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid.
. . .
[sings while slowing down] Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do. I'm half crazy all for the love of you. It won't be a stylish marriage, I can't afford a carriage. But you'll look sweet upon the seat of a bicycle built for two.


Scott

[BadMouth]

I see a lot of people mention NBA Jam , 2 on 2 open Ice when they talk about the 7 too, I loved NBA JAM.
                                                                                               XXX
                                                                                               XXX
                                                                                              X 
 

That's a personal choice that's up to you.  I did a curved layout with convex buttons because I wanted a modern looking cab.  I like it for shmups.  For everything else I miss the classic concave buttons in the straight 6 layout.  If sticking to MAME, the only thing I'd end up using that 7th button for is the run button in MK3.
Also depends on whether you prefer to use the top row or bottom row for games that only have a few buttons.
My preference and what MAME assumes you have is:
123
456

Some people do
456
123

Does every type of spinner (even push/pull) just pop off like that?

No.  I believe the offerings from groovygamegear and ultimarc have a wheel option.
The 360 degree wheel games are perfectly playable with the standard knob.
Honestly you might not want the wheel attachment if neighborhood kids are going to be hanging off of them.
A wheel attachment for a spinner doesn't equate to original arcade durability.

Honestly, that's exactly what I am trying to do, I was trying to convince myself to drop Tron Stick and cut down on buttons, but I would still do a spinner and trackball.

Install MAME and play these games.  I discovered that there isn't a single jet flying game that I like.
Buying a machine without knowing how MAME works is a bad idea anyway.
This isn't a console or PC where "everything just works".
Even if someone else is setting everything up for you, I guarantee they aren't bothering to adjust the analog sensitivity for the spinner or trackball and there will probably be games that need remapped.

I'm just trying to think of whatever connection I would need in the front of the cabinet to plug it in, I'm confused if any of this stuff would connect via USB or do I need a different type of port, if the kids want to use this, I don't want them moving the Pedestal, touching the PC, I'm trying to think of it from that perspective too.

If you're going to be plugging and unplugging controllers, make sure the builder uses a keyboard encoder for the main controls instead of something that shows up as a gamepad.  Windows likes to reshuffle controller IDs when you plug and unplug stuff.  If you plug a gamepad in, you might find that your arcade controls no longer work or are mixed up because the controller IDs have changed in Windows.  This is going to be especially frustrating if you don't know how remap the controls, not that you would want to every time things change.

[Paul Olson]

I would suggest at least looking into swapable panels. There has been quite a bit of discussion here over the years. I prefer modular, but if you are going to farm all of the work out for that, it can get really expensive. Since you are doing a pedestal cab, it should be really easy to swap panels on.

For Player 1 and 2. I keep going back between 6 button Capcom layout,  7 (neo geo/capcom ) ,8 button, square like Capcom, arched for fingers, angled for better ergonomics, no idea.

If you like Neo Geo games, and are used to playing them with that 4 button layout, then go with the 7. Otherwise, go with 6. Make a couple of mockups on cardboard to see if you like the angled pattern better than straight. That is just personal preference.

Super Happ 8-way Mechanical Rotary for Player 1 and 2 – I heard this would look, play, and feel exactly like the Super Happ 8-ways, I worry that it will slip and rotate on the user during non rotary games. If I hate it, I could swap in regular 8-way Super Happs, I need to hear from people that went with these and use them for non rotary 8-way games that require a lot of movement.

Do you really like the rotary games? If they are not some of your favorites, don't worry about it. I have LS-30 sticks for my cab, and they cost me a lot of money, and are a pain to deal with. I am really not sure why I bothered as I never really played those games as a kid. I have never played them outside of testing those joysticks. I got caught up in the hype of what controllers I need to play everything, and never stopped to think if I actually wanted to play them.

Super Happ 8-Way for player 3 and 4.

Do you play mostly fighting games? If not, you may want to consider something like a wico 8-way. It feels better for just about everything except for fighting games. If you do like fighting games, you should try the Happ competition stick as well. I like it better than the super. The wicos and the happs have the same mouning holes, so these are relatively easy to change if you want to down the road.

4-way Sanwa Zippy joystick for 4-way games.

A 4-way leafswitch wico joystick is perfect for 4-way games. I really don't think you can find a better joystick. You will have to find a used, rebuilt, or NOS one, and it will cost more, but it is worth it.

Trackball Happ 3" with mounting plates. Haven’t decided if I should go lit or not.

There are two types of plates. One with holes for the bolts, and one with mounted studs so the top is smooth after install. They are not much different in price, so definitely go for the cleaner install. Lit is personal preference. I had lit buttons for a while, but got rid of them. If you like lights, go for it.

Spinner: TurboTwist 2 with the Enery Storage Cylinder, Blackhawk or TurboTwist High-Low. I know I probably won’t play DOT much, but given the opportunity to keep the same real-estate with more game support, I’m all for the extra expense if it all works well with everything spinner related. I’ll play Arkanoid, I love that game.

Try to test one of the push/pulls if you can first. If it doesn't feel as good for the games you know you want to play, then skip it. Otherwise, go for it.

Flight Stick / Tron Stick. Could I just use the player 1 8-way and button combination instead for Afterburner, tron, and anything else that requires this type of control?

You are just not going to be happy with this if you want to use it for multiple games. If you really like Tron, then go for it. Tron uses a different restrictor than any other game to make it harder to hit the diagonals (so you don't hit them during diagonals). If you have this set up right, it will make normal 8 way games a little harder to play. The stick used in Afterburner is analog, so it is not even going to work the way you want. It also has a long throw which really makes it feel like a flight stick. I don't think this is something you will ever be happy with even if you found a different analog stick for it. I use a Space Harrier joystick, which has a similar throw, but I wouldn't try a normal stick for afterburner.

PC requirements: Not sure if I should just put an I7 to future proof it, or which 3d card, Windows 10 64bit, 500GB SSD for bootup, 6TB software drive, how much memory.

You mentioned in your other thread that this is a once in a lifetime purchase. Might as well go big. The video card will help more with your frontend than in MAME, but I don't think you need anything more than whatever card is currently the best in the $150-$200 range. Memory is probably still cheap at 16GB, so I would probably go there. You probably don't need that much, but that seems to be the best spot for price/performance right now.

On/Off and Reset switch behind panel

I think this is a good idea, at least on/off

Dual Wired AimTrak with recoil and holsters. I love light gun games and so does my son. Time Crisis Series, House of the Dead, Operation Wolf, T2, anything and everything that uses a gun. I see they put out a large sensor bar for large panel displays.

My guess is that these will never be quite right, and you will spend a lot of time messing with them. I also think that it is the best option currently available. I had fun with mine when I first got them, but never bothered to hook them up on the new setup. Hopefully someday. I see these as the necessary evil for those of us who really like the gun games.

Integrated Dual USB on the front panel for light guns, and other accessories.

Are there Mame Dance Pad games, another game the family loves and I would consider purchasing 2 x Heavy Duty metal pads in the future, will it connect via the 2 front USB ports I want or does it have to hook up like an arcade controller and directly to the PC, I just want to consider what ports I would need on the front of the cabinet to future proof for this add-on, same would go for Guitar Hero type games, if they exist for Mame.

Speaker and sub woofer with audio controls integrated on front (sub volume, aux input, headphone, main volume all on one module): Maybe Cyber Acoustics 3062, I’ve seen it recommended, not sure.

Steering wheel: I would love to play 2 very different genres, Sprint series and Daytona. I see some people use Thurstmaster Ferrari GT, I think it comes with peddles. I saw the ones that go on a spinner but that won’t work in my config, I do love authentic arcade peddles Not sure how that and a wheel would integrate in to the Pedestal design, do you just lay the peddles it in front of the cabinet and that works well? Do you clamp steering wheel?

I would say I have more unique controllers than just about anyone here, and with that in mind, I am going to recommend not even trying the wheels. Unless you can do a swappable panel where you can do it right, it just isn't going to be very good. If driving games are something you feel you have to have (again, swappable panels would make it better), then integrate the pedal design into the cabinet. Here is mine. the pedals work for a 3 wheel setup, or for a center wheel with gas and brake for the analog steering games. I don't use the wheels often, but they are fun. The pedals don't get in the way when playing other games, so it is not a big deal to have them there all the time.

Can I program Hyperspin to show the user a visual of the buttons and functions and which to use per game?

You can do just about anything. There are a lot of us who are years into this, and are still not finished. Just a warning. lol

Gamepads: for Non Arcade games, maybe I can just use my old 360 wireless controllers, but it’s low on my list. I think I will need a transmitter.

If you put the USB ports on the front of the cab, you can use the platform specific (NES, SNS, etc) USB controllers for a more authentic feel. Otherwise, 360, PS4, or xb1 controllers all can work with varying setup requirements.

Thanks again
[/quote]

[Xiaou2]

I discovered that there isn't a single jet flying game that I like.

 To clarify... Tron does not use an Analog Flight stick  (IE:  Jet games).   It uses a Digital 8-way Trigger joystick.

 Its for game such as Tron, Discs of Tron, Satans Hollow, Zaxxon, Super Zaxxon, and maybe the best reason for one:  Mad Planets.

 You simply cant play many of these games without that stick - Period.

 If it were me... Id drop the Trackball in favor of the Tron stick + Spinner.

 - Reduce the 3rd and 4th player buttons to 4 each.
 - Place a dedicated 4-way stick slightly diagonally left of & above, player 1 or 2s joystick.  This makes it easy to use either stick and button set, without anything getting in the way.

 ------------------------
 -     [4]          ooo  -
 -          [8]     #oo  -
 -                 #        -
 ------------------------

  Id also use a real old-school leaf button on the lower and probably 7th buttons,  as marked by the Hashes in the above example.
(Buttons 4 and 7)

 - Real leaf buttons feel and react far better for classic games.. most especially Rapidfire or heavily repeated-firing games such as Galaga, Satans Hollow, Asteroids Deluxe, and most especially Halleys Comet.

 - A Spinner on its own, should play most driving games fine.   Adding a wheel attachment to a spinner + kids = bent spinner shaft.   A spinner mechanism isnt build with a thick enough shaft, and with the proper mechanical strength... to be durable enough to withstand the human-forces that wheel-abuse ensures.

 - You however, might consider adding analog pedals in the base of the pedestal.

 - Theoretically,  you could put 4 spinners on the front of the CP,  "Vertically".. and make a 4 player racing game possible.  SuperSprint / Championship Sprint, and Super Offroad...  and some of my favorite games.   Multiplayer on them is far more fun than playing against the CPU.

 - I personally prefer the Happs Competition sticks for general gaming / Fighters.   I never liked the stiffer Supers... and the Optical Rotaries are based on the Supers.  However, if you put these on player 3 and 4s positions... I think that would be fine.   Usually 4 player games are not very critical or precise anyways.

 - Also... While I think its easier to acquire an Optical Rotary... and they have more capability to play some games that Mechanicals cant...  I feel that Optical Rotaries just can not replace the feel and precision of a Mechanical Rotary, for Mechanical Rotary games... such as Time Soldiers, Icari Warriros..etc.   The mechanical rotaries have a spring snapping that locks them into one of the 8 directions instantly... and this matches the onscreen characters position.   With an Optical Rotary... you could turn the stick a little... and accidentally pass the intended angle you wanted to face.

 - Buttons:  Sorry.. but the so called Modern convex buttons are awful.  As is their curved layout.  You will lose mechanical advantage, comfort, as well as easily get lost as to where your fingers are placed.   Many of the younger fighter-crowd are realizing this, and reverting back to the original straight layouts.

 - And Finally, I also prefer 8 way wico leaf joysticks for Robotron.. and some other classics.   Theres nothing that feels and performs better for this game.  They also feel better for many of the older classics period.  (but they dont work well for modern / fighting games).


 In the end... these are you decisions to make.   Do not let others try to tell you what you should cut away ... just because "They" dont like certain games / controllers.   And dont let others try to persuade you to use inferior Multi-hybrid controllers that do not perform like the originals... as you may be very disappointed in the inferior feel and control compromises that they provide.

Edit:

 - I will say that I agree with much of what Paul wrote.   Though, I dont necessarily agree that swapping panels is a good thing... as that takes time to deal with.. as well as a good place to store them.   If you can design a panel that can be played comfortably without swapping.. then you gain in continual gametime.    However, for those games you really want to play, and cant squeeze them in... it might be your best option.   (Other than more complex options.. such as Rotating Control panels)

 - As far as Afterburner II goes.. (and many similar Analog stick games)   .. you probably would be fine playing there on a PC gamepad with analog thumbsticks  via usb cable.   Most of these games do not require super precision.. despite the analog nature.   (Afterburner II also used an analog Throttle btw)

 - The only "Precise"  analog stick Arcade game I recall immediately is Sinistar.   Which uses a 49 way optical stick... and a special rubber spider spring system for superior control.   This is specifically needed to play this game properly.   However, I was able to hack an analog flight stick...  take out the original springs, and place a rubber spring made out of bike tires, to make a perfectly working solution.

 - Physically Restricted 4 ways are the best.   Nothing else comes close.  Either Wico original 4 way leafs, or the old Pacman 4 way leaf sticks.
I think I prefer the pacman sticks in feel, control, and durability... but most of these are destroyed.  Sometimes you can get lucky, and find replacement parts for them.   Warning.. most wico 4 ways that are used... are beat to death (Internal restrictor is no longer diamond shaped), and AFAIK.. are not recoverable.   The pacman sticks had easily replaceable parts... Its then a matter of trying to find them...

[Milky]

For what it's worth I'm a newbie myself and my wife and I have been working on building our first pedestal.  Here is the CP layout we have been using.  I have to say, it pretty much plays the games we care about with a little tweaking.  For example, Smash TV is a touch awkward with the P1/P3 joysticks being used to move/shoot, but it's a concession we're perfectly OK with.

[opt2not]

Yikes, this thread is full of all sorts of fail.

[harveybirdman]

Write wall of text......


then tell OP not to let people tell him what to do


 

[zallax]

Yikes, this thread is full of all sorts of fail.

Congratulations on being not helpful and pretentious at the same time. 

[opt2not]

Yikes, this thread is full of all sorts of fail.

Congratulations on being not helpful and pretentious at the same time. 

Congratulations on being a member of this forum since... 2008 and only 91 posts??  Good thing we have established contributing members here to help steer us in right direction. 

[yotsuya]

If this is the thread where we're congratulating people, I'd like to congratulate everybody's favorite mod on the birth of his new daughter!

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

[zallax]

Yikes, this thread is full of all sorts of fail.

Congratulations on being not helpful and pretentious at the same time. 

Congratulations on being a member of this forum since... 2008 and only 91 posts??  Good thing we have established contributing members here to help steer us in right direction. 

Oh forgive me all powerful Opt2Not.  All hail Opt2Not!   

Your critique still  doesn't help anyone and your reply only reinforced that fact you think you are better than others.

[opt2not]

Oh forgive me all powerful Opt2Not.  All hail Opt2Not!   

Your critique still  doesn't help anyone and your reply only reinforced that fact you think you are better than others.

You are forgiven my son. Now rise! 

Better than others?  Perhaps. But I call it confidence. Something a lot of people here lack.

What's wrong with being confident?


edit: and damnnn, Michelle Rodriguez is lookin' pretty good these days. Love me some strong latina ladies who have dabbled in bisexual-ism.

[Rick]

If we can all get back on topic, I would like to just note that Gameroom Designs Canada is the company that Rockstead has referenced in his original post, and that we're going to do this thing right. I appreciate all of the constructive posts in the thread, and will definitely be using the great ideas provided, as well as lending my experience to the build, so that we get a good looking, functional, and fun pedestal that Rockstead will be proud of.

[Xiaou2]

Write wall of text......


then tell OP not to let people tell him what to do


 

 Advice is one thing.  But it should be constructive, and in the direction the Op desires.
If the Op wants to play Mad Planets... why should others try talk him out of his favorite game.. just because they dont think its worth the space / looks ?

 If the Op wants the real Pacman 4/way joystick feel... Why should others whom never played a real original stick... and or whom really dont care that much about 4 way games... direct him to a substandard joystick solution?

 I gave my personal opinions of what I like, as well as the difference to be aware of.   Thats constructive.   I didnt try to Hammer the guy with insults, negativity, mockery...etc.   I didnt tell the guy what to do either.   I gave him information to guide him on his decisions, in the direction he wishes to travel.

 Unlike your comment... shallow, mocking, negative... and a waste of space and time.

 Thanks for playing.

[CheffoJeffo]

Write wall of text......then tell OP not to let people tell him what to do

 

Interestingly, I agree with much of the technical opinions, although he does -- as always -- run off with his "people should do as I say, not as I do" nonsense. It's like his constant narcissistic rants about narcissism (TRIGGER WARNING: NARCISSISM!). 

I completely disagree with the "Tron stick" advice (especially since he doesn't actually recommend using a Tron stick). To me, Tron won't play right without an actual Tron restrictor. And the other games won't play right with one (except Satan's Hollow which should play fine with either). And big sticks eat a lot of real estate and look clunky when jammed into OnePanelToPlayThemAll.

Similarly, the classic 360 wheel games that I love practically require that you have that rugged wheel in order to have fun. You can play with a spinner, but it is just disappointing.

If I were looking to include two rotary sticks, I would choose mechanical but am not sure I would want them as the primary sticks.

If you care enough about 4-way games to have a dedicated stick, I can't think of a reason to use anything other than a Wico or Pac (or Pac replacement) stick, unless you really love Donkey Kong (in which case you want a Ninty stick anyway).

The first thing that you must (yeah, I said it because it is true) do is set a list of games that you simply can't have disappoint you. Start with those controls. Too many people spend their time on "if I add this, then I can play this" or "if I accept lesser controls for Game A, then I can also have lesser controls for Game B". If you are going to go with OnePanelToPlayThemAll, then you are going to have to compromise (i.e. accept standards that are lower than desirable) on controls -- the first step is deciding where you don't want to do that.

Other that I have two final pieces of advice for the OP:

• Paul and Badmouth are giving you excellent advice
• Stay away from the tainted meth

Speaking of tainted meth, hey Steve: harvey wasn't mocking the guy. He was mocking YOU.

[yotsuya]

Cheffo is definitely my second favorite Canadian.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

[Malenko]

Welp using Rick as the builder is a step in the right direction. He is aware of a lot of things most of the pedestal builders routinely do incorrectly and don't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about, so you don't have to worry about a lot of things just by using him.

Listen, this hobby is stuffed with opinions, its really up to you to decide what you like the best. This thread is full of both great and terrible advice and I know it can be difficult to decide which is which when you are  new to the hobby. I believe even the bad advice still has the same goal as the good, to get you a pedestal that maximizes your enjoyment of playing the games.

"Everything in One" panels ....lets just call them Frankenpanels, are very tough things to pull off. You have to find that balance of "enough controls to play what you want" and "mine as well add extra controls you think you'll need (but never play)". The wide open extra space exacerbates the situation because a lot of people dont want to "waste space" by not filling it with controls.  I will echo the advice of making a list of all the games you want to play and then designing the controls around those games. And making mock ups out of cardboard is quick, easy, and practically free to do.

When I did my Broad Street Bullies build I considered having a trackball and a spinner, but in the end I had neither. This is *MY* ideal 4 player panel:

The only 2 games on my list of games I wanted to be able to play with this panel, but couldnt , were the 2 Dungeons and Dragons CPS2 games, which worked out because only one of my friends likes that game so we could still play 2 players My panel is simple but it let me play all the 4 player games I wanted except the 2 games mentioned above, the "straight stick" set up was perfect for SmashTV and Total Carnage, and head to head neogeo gaming was perfect for the middle 2 players.

I do sincerely hope your 4 player pedestal gets some 4 player usage. I hoped the same for my BSB cab. It started strong but didnt last , and I actually dont have a MAME cab any more right this minute, BSB is becoming my Multi Naomi cab

Best of luck with sorting this all out. 

[BadMouth]

With a pedestal, I don't think there is any reason to not do a trackball.
I'd personally skip the spinner, but since you love Arkanoid definitely include it.

You mentioned Aim-Traks.
Understand that any guns that work via infrared instead of like the old CRT guns are going to be more like using a wii controller than what you remember in the arcade.  You pretty much have to use the on-screen crosshairs instead of the guns sights.
Some people love it.  For me, it feels more like I'm using a magic wand than a gun and I don't care for it.
They are better for positional (mounted) gun games like Terminater 2 because they track your movement where the old style light guns don't know where they are pointed until the trigger is pulled (and they don't work on anything other than CRT monitors).

[wp34]

I'll second Malenko's design.  It is my favorite 4-player panel design.  If you can't play 2-player Smash TV and Total Carnage a 4-player panel is wasted IMHO.  At our last party the kids played Smash TV almost non-stop.

Having said that I do think it is easier to go "full-franken" when you have a pedestal.  The larger panels on uprights look odd to me because they are typically attached to a smaller cabinet which makes the CP look abnormally large and cluttered.  A pedestal frees you somewhat from those constraints.

[yotsuya]

I'll second Malenko's design.  It is my favorite 4-player panel design.  If you can't play 2-player Smash TV and Total Carnage a 4-player panel is wasted IMHO.  At our last party the kids played Smash TV almost non-stop.

Having said that I do think it is easier to go "full-franken" when you have a pedestal.  The larger panels on uprights look odd to me because they are typically attached to a smaller cabinet which makes the CP look abnormally large and cluttered.  A pedestal frees you somewhat from those constraints.

Excellent points that I completely agree with. Frankenpanels aren't as bad on pedestals since the extra controls aren't blocking part of the screen. That's usually the compromise when you try to fit all those controls on a standard cab panel. A pedestal allows you to spread things out.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

[opt2not]

Its difficult not to feel sorry for someone whos so mentally challenged,  that they can not understand the meaning of a very simple post.
But honestly, I got a chuckle out of it.     

 It would be one thing.. if the misunderstanding was from a non-native speaker...  but wow...   >_<   


 Btw - Your bitterness, anger, negativity, sarcasm, attacks... are lost on me.   I simply dont care.   Feel free to waste your precious time creating more useless drivel.   Its your loss, not mine.

Thanks for Playing.
 

The forum got a lot better once I've utilize the ignore feature. It's nice having the option to read the dribble of some of the more obtuse members of the forum. Currently I'm at 4 people, Chance, DeLuSioNal, Howard, johnrt, (yes I don't mind sharing this list with everyone) but I can see the list slowly growing further. Funny enough I don't have Xiaou2 on the list, yet...but I haven't had much reason to. Yeah you right lots of stuff, but there are snippets of information that do push the subject along. One just has to weed through the "overgrown jungle" of your posts to find those morsels.

[wp34]

I'll second Malenko's design.  It is my favorite 4-player panel design.  If you can't play 2-player Smash TV and Total Carnage a 4-player panel is wasted IMHO.  At our last party the kids played Smash TV almost non-stop.

Having said that I do think it is easier to go "full-franken" when you have a pedestal.  The larger panels on uprights look odd to me because they are typically attached to a smaller cabinet which makes the CP look abnormally large and cluttered.  A pedestal frees you somewhat from those constraints.

Excellent points that I completely agree with. Frankenpanels aren't as bad on pedestals since the extra controls aren't blocking part of the screen. That's usually the compromise when you try to fit all those controls on a standard cab panel. A pedestal allows you to spread things out.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

 

[Ian]

If we can all get back on topic, I would like to just note that Gameroom Designs Canada is the company that Rockstead has referenced in his original post, and that we're going to do this thing right. I appreciate all of the constructive posts in the thread, and will definitely be using the great ideas provided, as well as lending my experience to the build, so that we get a good looking, functional, and fun pedestal that Rockstead will be proud of.

Best post on this thread.... Good job Gameroom Designs!

[Rockstead]

I ended up receiving PM feedback from two users that had the Happ Mechanical and both were very disappointed, specific comments were that it was chunky, clunky, and quite difficult to rotate and doesn't compare nicely to the Super Happ 8-way, I guess I have my answer.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Also, keep in mind that the restrictor upgrade mod is a must (IMHO) if you want to play Tron on Happ's digital flight stick.  Not sure if Encryptor is still selling the part or not.  Bender wrote a great tutorial on the mod here:  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=78233.0

Mad Planets was another favorite of mine and the restrictor worked great with it too.

Good Luck!

DeL

[olsen]

Can I program Hyperspin to show the user a visual of the buttons and functions and which to use per game?

If you download the CP Wizard application, you can create an image of your custom control panel. Once you assign the buttons, CP Wizard will create individual images for each MAME game. It doesn't work for all of them, but certainly for the main ones. Then you add the custom images to your front end.

http://headsoft.com.au/index.php?category=cpwizard

[Rockstead]

Can I program Hyperspin to show the user a visual of the buttons and functions and which to use per game?

If you download the CP Wizard application, you can create an image of your custom control panel. Once you assign the buttons, CP Wizard will create individual images for each MAME game. It doesn't work for all of them, but certainly for the main ones. Then you add the custom images to your front end.

http://headsoft.com.au/index.php?category=cpwizard

Thanks, I searched for this and found some nice demos on youtube. I saw some nice setups where it appears on the game loading screen of hyperspin, very practical.