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Author Topic: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing  (Read 90101 times)

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fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1040 on: November 18, 2020, 09:02:07 pm »
I just tried it, initial thoughts I am not that impressed. The resolution is only a slight bump compared to the index and it does not really seem to have that because it has the same lens problem that I ---smurfing--- hated about the Lenovo. it is clear when you look straight ahead but when you turn your eyes to the side it looks like complete ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---; i get all HMD’s are clearer in the middle but with the mixed reality it is a bothersome extreme, I am not convinced at all they did anything different with the lenses. Also the the FOV is just… it is hard to go back to that binocular crap after being in the index so long.

mimic

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1041 on: November 18, 2020, 09:25:48 pm »
I just tried it, initial thoughts I am not that impressed. The resolution is only a slight bump compared to the index and it does not really seem to have that because it has the same lens problem that I ---smurfing--- hated about the Lenovo. it is clear when you look straight ahead but when you turn your eyes to the side it looks like complete ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---; i get all HMD’s are clearer in the middle but with the mixed reality it is a bothersome extreme, I am not convinced at all they did anything different with the lenses. Also the the FOV is just… it is hard to go back to that binocular crap after being in the index so long.
That's disappointing to hear you're not wowed at the very least by the clarity. So far it seem the unanimous conclusion is that there is no clearer HMD.

What did you try so far? Which games?

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1042 on: November 18, 2020, 10:08:24 pm »
Just the lab - Vesper Peak demo and Half Life Alyx balcony. Tried to play a 3d movie in my favorite player DeoVR but the motion controllers would not pick up in that app. I will try some more tomorrow

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1043 on: November 19, 2020, 03:31:24 am »
I just tried it, initial thoughts I am not that impressed. The resolution is only a slight bump compared to the index and it does not really seem to have that because it has the same lens problem that I ---smurfing--- hated about the Lenovo. it is clear when you look straight ahead but when you turn your eyes to the side it looks like complete ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---; i get all HMD’s are clearer in the middle but with the mixed reality it is a bothersome extreme, I am not convinced at all they did anything different with the lenses. Also the the FOV is just… it is hard to go back to that binocular crap after being in the index so long.

Is your Win10 install fully up to date?  They supposedly added some things in the October update specifically to support the G2.

There are 2,361,600 more pixels per eye than the index.  That's more than a slight bump, it's almost double.  What do you have Steam's SS setting at?  I would ask if you were mistakenly in half-res mode, but I haven't been able to find it yet to confirm that it even exists.

As for the FOV, out of the box, the padding is pretty stiff.  After a few hours, it'll compress a bit and bring your eyes a little closer to lenses.  Apparently, a Chinese company already has a replacement face gasket which gets you closer and opens up the FOV quite a bit, but it's not yet for sale outside of China. 

Anyway, something sounds off.  The Odyssey has the same resolution as the Index, but with a narrower FOV, so the pixel density should be pretty close even with it's pentile displays.  The G2 trounces the Odyssey in image clarity and the through the lens videos comparing it to the Index reflect the same level of difference I'm seeing when compared to the Odyssey.  I played a bit of Racket: NX tonight, and the blur would be kicking in at the distance of the walls with the Odyssey.  It's non-existent with the G2, and the details in the ball are crazy.  Never even knew they were there before.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1044 on: November 19, 2020, 12:43:52 pm »
Quote
Anyway, something sounds of.f.  The Odyssey has the same resolution as the Index, but with a narrower FOV, so the pixel density should be pretty close even with it's pentile displays

I have not tried the Odyssey either but I thought I remember them saying they blurred the pixels on the Odyssey 2 to try to eliminate screen door effect or something? Anyway I know the image on the Odyssey does not compare to the Index. Looking at certain specs hardly ever tells the story. It's why Iphone specs will usually get blown out of the water by Android and yet everything runs faster and more stable on the iphone. Even with the Cosmos the talk the whole time was it has more cameras so the inside out tracking has to be better than Mixed reality because more cameras = more coverage = better tracking…right? clearly that was not the case.
I just watched Marques Brownlee review on the iPhone 12 Pro Max, on paper it seems like it should have a lot better camera system allowing more light in with better stability but with all his testing he could not find any difference in photos compared to the 12 mini.



If the review for the G2 was just its resolution spec I would have not cared less just like I did not care about the G1. Every review was saying it was an uncompromised high color high resolution perfect uniform display but I am just not seeing it. I will say it is more conferrable than the index. The most comfortable headset I have had was the CV1, it was light, it did not put pressure on any single point, it felt like you were snapping on just a hat and glasses. If I were to Give the CV1 a 10/10 for comfort then I would give the G2 a 9/10 just below really good.

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1045 on: November 19, 2020, 01:31:24 pm »

As I noted in my last post, in the through-the-lens videos comparing the Index with the G2, the Index looks almost exactly like what I see through my Odyssey+ unit.  The Index also looks to also be employing a diffusion filter, given the softness of the image.

The G2 image is so much better than the Odyssey+ that it's hard to put into words.  When looking at things up close, The O+ is very nice, but that fall-off in clarity happens rapidly when any distance is added to the mix, and even at a short distance details are lost.  This is 100% a function of the "numbers on paper" and there's no magic which can change that.  Resolving power is a function of raw resolution.  And, while neither the G2 or the Index can match the contrast and color of the O+, the G2 comes really, really close.  Again, the videos show the Index to be pretty lacking in that regard.

I won't even attempt to compare controllers and tracking with the Index, but when it comes to displays, I'm struggling in the same way to understand how the two could be compared.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1046 on: November 19, 2020, 02:57:11 pm »
what video

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1047 on: November 20, 2020, 10:57:13 am »

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1048 on: November 20, 2020, 03:27:57 pm »
Here's another which talks about the image fidelity of the G2:


fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1049 on: November 20, 2020, 08:39:07 pm »
Ya Norm is the master of everything VR. I think in the early days I found out 80% of what was going on in VR industry through him. Did you notice he confirmed everything that was wrong with the tracking / battery life and stated he wished he could buy a headset without the controllers?

I used 2 fingers and pushed the headset closer to my face and that evens out the image a little more but I am still not convinced with this thing. I did already state the image is a little better than the index, my problem is the image is not big enough or an even quality throughout.



Watching this guys video to figure out how to use my index controllers with it.
First thing he says was hey you can hook up your old vive for the set up process. I am l like cool let me pull it out. It WILL not ---smurfing--- CONNECT to my PC no matter what I do. I finally brought in my media PC into my computer room which only has a 970 graphics card and everything works fine on that one. Funny I realized using the Vive with a 970 graphics card was basically the same as what I had in 2016 when I first got VR. I went into a steam Home and then went into a Half Life Alex room… OMG I know how it is supposed to look with a 1080-ti in the index and it legitimately looked like Half Life Alex running on a Quest 1, I could not believe how far we have already come. I am sure it will be even another step once we are able to get are 3080’s if they are ever in stock
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 08:49:53 pm by fallacy »

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1050 on: November 20, 2020, 09:20:04 pm »
Ok I finally got the Vive to work on my main PC. I think the problem was the index usb was still plugged into the pc and for some reason that was causing a conflict??? It was also plugged in when I set up the G2 and that worked fine. I checked out the Half Life Alex room again and it looked a lot better with the higher CPU/GPU

mimic

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1051 on: November 20, 2020, 09:45:31 pm »
 Is your headset functioning at half-resolution by any chance? What are your specs??

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1052 on: November 20, 2020, 10:16:55 pm »
Ok I finally got the Vive to work on my main PC. I think the problem was the index usb was still plugged into the pc and for some reason that was causing a conflict???

Hmmm...  Maybe some of the same circuitry is shared between the Vive and the Index.  Could be confusing the system.  They did both come from Valve.

If you want to get the Index controllers working, you would need to pair them with the Vive headset (assuming that you want to use it as the receiver) and have only the USB and power connected.  The HDMI must be unconnected.  When you power them on, you should see them in SteamVR, but they probably will be a good distance away from your position.  Download and install the Space Calibrator software and run the calibration (follow the instructions on the download site).  When calibrating to your space, you will need the G2 controller.  Make certain that it's working well in your environment, and when calibrating, be sure you are wearing the G2 and that you always keep the controllers in your view.   Don't stand in one spot, rather move about your play space while moving the controllers around.  Once it works the way you want, you can have it boot automatically.  IIRC, I was able to just turn on the controllers, and everything would start up, dropping me right into SteamVR.

pbj

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1053 on: November 20, 2020, 10:19:35 pm »


https://gamehistory.org/segavr/



I’m still upset this never came out.

This forum needs more threads about Arcade 1Up cabinets.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1054 on: November 20, 2020, 10:30:40 pm »
Yep I just got it to work:) are you doing that right now with the vive controllers? Feels good, index controllers so much better. The thought of having to play with the WMR controllers was equivalent to someone handing you a gamepad and the B button was sticky and the down right on the thumbstick only worked about  75% of the time.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1055 on: November 20, 2020, 11:07:47 pm »
Quote
IIRC, I was able to just turn on the controllers, and everything would start up, dropping me right into SteamVR.


ow ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- you are right!!! that's convenient. I just bought a 2tb ssd for all VR games so everything boots up super fast. If my PC is turned on a literally just have to power on my controllers and I am in VR, no friction at all.

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1056 on: November 21, 2020, 09:52:54 am »
Yep I just got it to work:) are you doing that right now with the vive controllers? Feels good, index controllers so much better. The thought of having to play with the WMR controllers was equivalent to someone handing you a gamepad and the B button was sticky and the down right on the thumbstick only worked about  75% of the time.

Glad to hear that you got it working.  I only use the Vive controllers when I feel like a couple of games of bowling, or some game that relies on accurate positioning of the controllers somewhere outside of the HMD view.  In the past, this also included archery games, and to some extent, table tennis/racket games, but not any more with the G2.  The new side cameras took care of those use cases.

WMR isn't as bad as all that.  It depends on what you are used to, and if you are used to the Lighthouse tracking system, it's tough to use anything else.  But someone coming from the Move controllers on the PSVR, or a 3DOF unit, or a "Walmart" VR headset will think they died and went to VR heaven when using WMR.  WMR tracking is a profound upgrade over those. 

What you are using right now, represents $1200 worth of gear, with $600 of that dedicated to the controllers alone.  G2 with WMR gets pretty close to that functionality at half the cost, with the best image quality on the market.  I think a more accurate analog would be that WMR is like using a standard optical mouse to play first person shooters as opposed to a $300 16000dpi laser mouse.  You can play fine with both,  but the expensive one will afford you an extra competitive edge.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 10:05:37 am by RandyT »

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1057 on: November 21, 2020, 10:35:12 am »


https://gamehistory.org/segavr/



I’m still upset this never came out.

I'm waiting for someone to build VR into Playstation or N64 emulators.  Games like Crash Bandicoot or Mario 64 would be pretty cool in upscaled 3D with the ability to control the in-game camera (where available) with the HMD tracking.  With the strides being made in AI, I can see a time when even old 2D games are automatically given an element of depth.  Imagine something like this, but without the need to customize the ROM code.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1058 on: November 21, 2020, 12:05:06 pm »
it was in TimeCop

RandyT

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1059 on: November 21, 2020, 12:16:31 pm »
Look at that light leakage! :)

pbj

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1060 on: November 21, 2020, 03:57:52 pm »
I still want to know how they were doing head tracking for $1

This forum needs more threads about Arcade 1Up cabinets.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1061 on: November 21, 2020, 06:14:52 pm »
The VFX1 the coolest PC HMD at the same time used head tracking with gyroscopes or like how  a compass works magnetic north. There was obviously a lot of lag. I almost bought that headset at the time, I read a review that discueged me saying your money would be better spent upgrading your graphics card. I now wish I had just so I can say I was in VR before anyone else.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1062 on: November 21, 2020, 10:18:09 pm »
G2 is exhausting. Ya it is higher rez but that's about it. The index controllers not really working, every time I turn it on they end up in a different location, there are games and and apps that will just open to a grey screen because of them why? Who the ---fudgesicle--- knows. I dont know whats wrong with the FOV, I just put on the original vive and I was fine with that. Either the face pad is putting you too far away from the screen or something. Getting sick of going through that mixed reality software before you can get into steam just another chain to break everything else. Not sure if I should sell it and wait for the index 2 to do this right. Mixed Reality fooled me twice but by god it won't happen a third time!

I am also completely over this 100 degree-ish FOV, If we are not talking 135 plus FOV including mobile HMDs or whatever else they come out with I am not interested.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1063 on: November 22, 2020, 11:35:15 am »
G2 is exhausting. Ya it is higher rez but that's about it. The index controllers not really working, every time I turn it on they end up in a different location, there are games and and apps that will just open to a grey screen because of them why? Who the ---fudgesicle--- knows. I dont know whats wrong with the FOV, I just put on the original vive and I was fine with that. Either the face pad is putting you too far away from the screen or something. Getting sick of going through that mixed reality software before you can get into steam just another chain to break everything else. Not sure if I should sell it and wait for the index 2 to do this right. Mixed Reality fooled me twice but by god it won't happen a third time!

I am also completely over this 100 degree-ish FOV, If we are not talking 135 plus FOV including mobile HMDs or whatever else they come out with I am not interested.

If your Index controllers are off every time you boot, then your environment is changing, or not ideal (maybe shadows moving based on the time of day and not enough else in the room to sync to.)  Also, did you set up and sync the chaperone boundaries on both units?

There are a few games which do a grey screen just because of the G2.  I haven't seen one yet, but those are the reports.  The same thing happened when the Odyssey first came out because it was higher resolution than the other WMR units.  It'll likely need to be fixed by the game developers.  Normal stuff for something new.

The eye relief was designed to allow glasses wearers clearance for them in the HMD.  The FOV is basically the same as the Index, when the Index is set to maximum eye relief.  There's a simple hack which basically uses thick, self-adhesive neoprene door seal foam on the HMD in lieu of the included face gasket, to open up the FOV for non-glasses wearers.  Try taking off the face gasket and looking at the FOV you get from that to see what to expect from it.  There are reports of at least one manufacturer in China who has already developed a replacement.  I would imagine more will follow.  Personally, my face shape allows my eyes to get pretty close to the lenses, and I can already see the screen edges with a tiny bit of pressure applied to the front the unit.  Those with a broader face shape will have different results.

The G2 has already spoiled me to the point that going back to any other unit is a non-starter.  My biggest complaint about it is that I only have one, and it has been tethered to my cable management system so I can't use it on my racing rig.  First world problems.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 11:38:38 am by RandyT »

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1064 on: November 22, 2020, 02:13:57 pm »
So, I just set up my Vive wands to use with the G2 for some testing in Pistol Whip.  Calibration went fine, solid tracking, right where they are supposed to be.

Played a few rounds of the Ember song on normal difficulty with the Vive controller, and ended up with a rank of 942 in the global rankings.  So I exit the game, turn off the Vive wands and fire up the G2 controller to see if I do any worse with it.  Same song, same difficulty settings.  Didn't notice any difference during play, but I did feel like I preferred the trigger of the Vive wand.  Made it through to the end on the first try with the G2 controller and with a global rank of 516!!

I'm not saying that the G2 controller is superior in any way, but based on the result, it absolutely didn't hinder my game in any way.  It won't be like that with every title, but for most of what I am interested in playing, I won't see much difference between the two.  I'll add that I have yet to seriously play the VR Call of Duty wannabes, so that may be a bit of a different case.  I suspect that I will pick up Population One when I see a sale, so I'll figure that out at some point.

But testing with the Vive wands seemed to work fine on my end.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1065 on: December 01, 2020, 10:39:54 pm »
I have ironed out most things at this point with the G2, with that said overall I still don't like it, the FOV and the lenses. I think these are the worst lenses I have seen in all my headsets including the ones with bad god rays and glare. The blurriness around the edges making the FOV even worse, other weird things with white light that almost makes the image shift when you turn your head. I don't know  I am liking the crisp monitor like resolution but I really want it on a better headset. At this point I am thinking the Quest 2 hooked up to your PC might be slightly better, for the loss of resolution and a little color at least the lenses are not crap.

Apparently my dad has been playing alot of Quest. He has been playing a lot of In Death which I recommended and he is really into it. I have been playing it for the last week as well; I don't know what it is about that game but it is really satisfying hitting everything with that bow, it becomes like 20 minutes of meditation. If I were to compare it to an arcade game I would compare it to that X-men beat 'em up game. All you have is a jump and one attack and yet you can keep going through one guy after another and feel like it is good stuff.

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1066 on: Yesterday at 11:52:29 am »
From everything I have seen, I can't even fathom a Q2 being better.  The general consensus from those who have purchased both units was that they thought the Q2 looked pretty good until they tried the G2 and realized how much better it is.  It sounds to me like you wanted an Index 2, but bought a Reverb G2 because there isn't one, and the price tag is causing some buyer's remorse.  The other point about the lenses is puzzling.  Even with a small fall-off of sharpness out of the razor-sharp center, it still has more clarity than any other unit out there by virtue of the panel resolution.  But at least for my facial geometry, the fit of the unit makes it pretty easy to stay put in that high-sharpness zone.

I will agree about In Death.  It's one that I always find myself going back to.  It's even better now on the G2, given the artistic detail in the scenery (at least on the PC version) and the fact that those archers are often pretty distant.  It's a lot easier to dial in on them now in long-range battle.

I don't know if your dad is into gunplay and techno-pop, but he might like Pistol Whip as well.  It has a similar "hop in and play" vibe, and once you get tired of the aim-assisted, big hit-box style of rhythm game, you can turn on dead-eye and make it a real shooting game.  It gets pretty brutal in that mode.  I believe all versions just got a major update with a campaign mode as well.

fallacy

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Re: I have now tried Virtual Reality and it is amazing
« Reply #1067 on: Yesterday at 02:54:30 pm »
Ya I was trying to get them Pistol Whip, I finally got my mom to buy Super Hot on an Oculus sale and I had my dad  try it when I was over one night; we will see if he continues to play it on his own. I had them try and buy Beat Saber when they first bought the Quest but they said they were not playing it.