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Author Topic: Jpac + hantarex 9110 vsync issue in interlaced modes  (Read 920 times)

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Podbod

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Jpac + hantarex 9110 vsync issue in interlaced modes
« on: April 13, 2016, 03:34:34 am »
This is a cross post from the ultimarcs forums on a members recommendation. They suggested there's a hope someone might have the same config as me.
Hello,

So I posted about this 4 years ago but sadly on top of not finding a fix I also haven't seen my arcade cab since then as its stuck in my parents garage half way across the country. However its really been bugging me recently and I thought I'd see if anyone had any advice on a potential fix I have

Quick recap of my issue.
If I direct connect my vga port (I cant recall for sure but i think i just connected the vsync and hsync lines together) from my HD4xxx gfx card to my hantarex 9110 monitor then everything works fine. All resolutions look great.

If I connect it to the j-pac then interlaced resolutions fail to hold their v-sync. See following youtube clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9nvvE5n0BI


Now, no one seemed to know why at my original posting but I theorised that either the jpac was introducing some kind of noise when it boosts the vga output from 1v to 5v (although correct me if I'm wrong but this should only be on the rgb pins right?). Or my monitor simply can't handle the stress of a 5v input (Note. it has a knob to adjust between different strengths of input. Turning it while getting the boosted input does not solve the issue leading me to lean towards the first theory)

So, unless anyone sees this and has new ideas, I figured I'd just grab a breadboard from my local electronics shop and wire the direct link vga up via some transistors while at the same time also connecting the vga (I'd split it) to the j-pac. When it passes through a 5v line to the Jamma connector I can route that to the transistors to allow the direct connection through. Thus having the j-pac benefit of protecting my monitor without the signal boosting parts. I'd naturally have to cut and junction the jamma connector to prevent the jpac outputs making it to the screen. Seems a shame but not sure what else to do at this point.


Does that sound like it'd work? I have some things I'm not sure about.
1) I've forgotten all of my electronics from school so I'd need to work out exactly what transistors to buy and if I'd need other components (resistors etc) to get it to work.
2) Can anyone see any issues with splitting the vga signal like that.
3) does the j-pac cut all lines out when the signal is invalid? I need a reliable way to tell that its legit so if the 5v rail is always live I might be a bit screwed

Cheers for any help you can give

Paul

krick

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Re: Jpac + hantarex 9110 vsync issue in interlaced modes
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2016, 11:46:42 am »
While we wait for people to chime in...

Just for shts and giggles, do you have access to an ATI/AMD Radeon card (HD 7xxx or earlier) other than the ArcadeVGA?

It might be interesting to experiment with CRT_EmuDriver to see if the problem is specific to the ArcadeVGA hardware and/or drivers.

CRT_EmuDriver for older cards
http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=65

CRT_EmuDriver 2.0 - New version based on Catalyst 12.6 (Windows 7/8): for HD 2000, HD 3000, HD 4000, HD 5000, HD 6000, HD 7000 series
http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295
Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.8GHz
ASUS Z87M-PLUS Motherboard

Podbod

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Re: Jpac + hantarex 9110 vsync issue in interlaced modes
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2016, 12:40:05 pm »
I think you've gotten  confused by my response over on ultimarcs forum.

I'm already running a 4xxx card using Cals driver and groovy mame. The interlace Issue is only when going via the jpac.

I did used to have an arcade vga and is why I have a vga cable that goes direct to the monitor. This also worked fine in all modes that it supported.

To recap
Arcadevga - all modes supported work
HD4xxx connected directly to monitor - all modes work
HD4xxx via jpac - interlaced modes lose vsync. (See youtube link in OP)

Cheers

Paul

Calamity

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Re: Jpac + hantarex 9110 vsync issue in interlaced modes
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2016, 01:06:40 pm »
To recap
Arcadevga - all modes supported work
HD4xxx connected directly to monitor - all modes work
HD4xxx via jpac - interlaced modes lose vsync. (See youtube link in OP)

The missing and relevant test would be ArcadeVGA->JPAC->H 9110. If this didn't work, then it'd point to either a faulty JPAC or a bad JAMMA wiring. On the other hand, if that works, then there's probably something in your modelines that could be changed to match the ArcadeVGA (I honestly doubt this is the case).

But because switching cards etc. is a lot of work, I'd recommend to switch to the CRT Tools 2.0 first (VMMaker 2.0), in case you're not already using it. Maybe the sync polarities are wrong for some reason, and the new version can definitely fix that.

The JPAC doesn't cut the signals when they're off frequency. I believe what it does is to filter out one out two hsync pulses to perform 31 kHz -> 15 kHz conversion.

Finally, in your position I'd just wire the sync cables directly to your monitor bypassing the JPAC. This will obviously bypass the frequency filter. But you can use ATOM-15 so you'll get a 15 kHz output right from boot.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 01:35:51 pm by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Podbod

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Re: Jpac + hantarex 9110 vsync issue in interlaced modes
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2016, 01:41:00 pm »
I'd not heard of atom 15. Must have been written in the 4 years I was away. Sounds perfect. I might even be able to just use the direct vga cable I still have spliced in not have to alter anything. Only issue might be if the jpac doesn't like having signals coming into its jamma connector without vga inputs coming in on the other side?

Seems moot now but I think i only have the 15k pin connected on the jpac. The monitor switches off during boot thus why I assumed it was cutting all the lines completly?
I'm still convinced it's the jpac that's causing the issue and not all the pc side stuff or I'd have seen the issues when I connected it directly. Not that I'm saying it's the jpac at fault. The monitor is very old now so even having replaced all the caps it could just be that it can't handle even a little variance the jpac might be adding to the the syncs.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 02:13:45 pm by Podbod »

Calamity

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Re: Jpac + hantarex 9110 vsync issue in interlaced modes
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2016, 01:55:00 pm »
Only issue might be if the jpac doesn't like having signals coming into its jamma connector without vga inputs coming in on the other side?

Yeah, that would be an issue, but I believe if you remove all jumpers the signal will just pass through and you'll still benefit from the RGB amplifier.

A nice thing about the JPAC however is it mixes the sync signals properly into c-sync. Wiring the sync cables together, although it may work is not ideal. But if it works...

Quote
Seems moot now but I think i only have the 15k pin connected on the jpac. The monitor switches off during boot thus why I assumed it was cutting all the lines completly?

I'd be really suprised about that. I've owned 2 JPACs and in both cases the signal is just split horizontally, it's never blacked out.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Podbod

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Re: Jpac + hantarex 9110 vsync issue in interlaced modes
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2016, 02:18:32 pm »
I could be remembering wrong. Has been 4 years as I said. :)

Good point about removing the jumpers. I don't need the amplification but my monitor can handle it so I'll do it that way first and not risk frying the jpac with reverse feedback.
Hopefully that eliminates the issue. There's still the chance that it's the boosted voltage that my monitor has trouble with tho and it could just be whatever process hes using to combine the syncs into a csync. As mentioned, on the direct connect I just combined them. Any idea how he does it?

Fingers crossed. Now just need to actually get my hands on the thing!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 02:23:01 pm by Podbod »

Podbod

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Re: Jpac + hantarex 9110 vsync issue in interlaced modes
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2016, 02:28:23 pm »
Oh and thanks so much for all the programs, replies and info. Gives me real hope I can finally get this sorted.

Podbod

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Re: Jpac + hantarex 9110 vsync issue in interlaced modes
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 10:02:25 am »
So. 2 years later and I finally got access to my cab for a couple of days.
Cal you're a genius. I used atom15 to flash the bios and it worked but the same issue I was having before was still there. Now also in dos :) The vsync just refuses to hold on any resolutions above a certain size (pretty sure all the interlaced ones)
I removed all the jumpers from the jpac but that made zero difference. Whatever the jpac does to the signal is the culprit.

So I was left with no choice but to wire the monitor direct from the graphics card using the spliced in vga cable I had used back when I had an arcadevga card. As suspected I couldn't do this without cutting power to the jpac or causing it to mix with the signal coming out of the jpac (my jamma connector is soldered to the wires so I can't just disconnect the video pins) so the easiest fix was to just remove the jpac and put my old ipac back in. Luckily I'd left the ribbon cable I had spliced into the controls attached.

So now I have the ipac handling the inputs and a direct connection for the vga output coming from my ati 4xxx with atom15 and cals drivers which covers all cases

Sweet.

Cheers everyone!!

Pod

P.s I have res issues with vertical games. I'll create a new thread about that later

P.s.s I'll never know if the jpac was faulty or my monitor was just picky I guess. I could send it to someone who wanted to try it but I suspect that's more trouble than it's worth.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 10:13:03 am by Podbod »

SteelRush

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Re: Jpac + hantarex 9110 vsync issue in interlaced modes
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2018, 02:51:25 pm »
You can disable the signal splitting on the JPAC:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=152488.0

I have had to do this with all my JPACs or they lose sync eventually.  You still retain the video amplifier.

Podbod

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Re: Jpac + hantarex 9110 vsync issue in interlaced modes
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2018, 04:57:54 pm »
Oh that's interesting. I actually emailed Andy years ago asking if that was possible but never got an answer as he suggested other fixes I was never able to test out.
But given my monitor doesn't require the signal boost at best it'll be what I've already got and at worst it doesn't solve the problem. After all my issue is that it never holds sync in interlaced modes.

Still. Useful to know if I ever do use the jpac again or sell it on.

Pod

  
 

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