Crapmame Contender :D

[leapinlew]

I'm not a fan of the sophomoric delivery, but the message of crapmame was right on, can be found at the bottom of page 31, and saved a lot of us from making some bad design decisions. There's no doubt that crapmame advanced the quality of subsequent builds.

The ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- here is that there's some absolute standard of good or bad design decisions that needs to be enforced by the white knights of coolness.  If we were brain surgeons for example, and someone's life was at stake, I could see that there might be some professional standard that needed to be complied to.  We're not.  We're guys on the internet who want to play old videogames.  On the general cool scale, we're about one step up from My Little Pony fans, so the idea of being snobbish about it is incredibly laughable.  Not a single person here can legitimately disparage the guy who bolts a 16:9 monitor to a piece of plywood and calls it a gaming station, or the kid who builds a cardboard cabinet around his Raspberry Pi, if that is the level of skill and resources they have.  The guy with an electrical engineering degree and 30 years of carpentry and fabrication experience can laugh just as hard about the efforts of pretty much anyone here, and the idea that you can and should make fun of people who make different decisions than you is a load of self-serving crap.  It's not just about crapmame, and it certainly isn't about bullying.  It's about the fact that no matter how hard you pat each other on the back, the emperor still has no damn clothes.

So... what's the deal anyhow? People post stuff on a forum and then get offended when some people don't like a design or build?

Want to put 30,000 games on your arcade? Yeah, you're going to get some opinions on why that could be a bad idea. Want to jam tons of controls on a control panel? You'll hear people sharing their stories of their similar build. How you take that advice is up to you. Again I refer people to Project Announcements to show me this herd like mentality that is apparently running rampant.

For what it's worth, for every person like you who gets offended when someone else says something they don't agree with, there are 100 others who are happy that hard earned lessons are being passed down to them. Take the advice or don't, and build what you want, but complaining about it doesn't change the general opinion that some arcade decisions are bad ideas.

[yotsuya]

I'm not a fan of the sophomoric delivery, but the message of crapmame was right on, can be found at the bottom of page 31, and saved a lot of us from making some bad design decisions. There's no doubt that crapmame advanced the quality of subsequent builds.

Not a single person here can legitimately disparage the guy who bolts a 16:9 monitor to a piece of plywood and calls it a gaming station

If he wants to sell it for over $1000, yeah, I think I can.

[Token]

I'm not a fan of the sophomoric delivery, but the message of crapmame was right on, can be found at the bottom of page 31, and saved a lot of us from making some bad design decisions. There's no doubt that crapmame advanced the quality of subsequent builds.

The ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- here is that there's some absolute standard of good or bad design decisions that needs to be enforced by the white knights of coolness.

Not an absolute standard, but depending on the builder's goals there are some design ideas that are better than others. This is true whether you are building a bridge, a table, or an arcade cabinet. I've taken my lumps here for defending someone who designed a control panel with 8 buttons per player, because the builder wanted to play some modern fighters. I've also nudged people away from 8 buttons when they had no use for more than six.

  On the general cool scale, we're about one step up from My Little Pony fans, ........ and the idea that you can and should make fun of people who make different decisions than you is a load of self-serving crap.

I agree.

[Token]

Not a single person here can legitimately disparage the guy who bolts a 16:9 monitor to a piece of plywood and calls it a gaming station

If he wants to sell it for over $1000, yeah, I think I can.

Also true.

[yotsuya]

  On the general cool scale, we're about one step up from My Little Pony fans

I agree.

Based on the amount of real, regular people who attend ZapCon and other arcade shows around the country, I'm going to have to disagree with the both of you guys.

[Frank Drebin]

I'm not a fan of the sophomoric delivery, but the message of crapmame was right on, can be found at the bottom of page 31, and saved a lot of us from making some bad design decisions. There's no doubt that crapmame advanced the quality of subsequent builds.

The ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- here is that there's some absolute standard of good or bad design decisions that needs to be enforced by the white knights of coolness.  If we were brain surgeons for example, and someone's life was at stake, I could see that there might be some professional standard that needed to be complied to.  We're not.  We're guys on the internet who want to play old videogames.  On the general cool scale, we're about one step up from My Little Pony fans, so the idea of being snobbish about it is incredibly laughable.  Not a single person here can legitimately disparage the guy who bolts a 16:9 monitor to a piece of plywood and calls it a gaming station, or the kid who builds a cardboard cabinet around his Raspberry Pi, if that is the level of skill and resources they have.  The guy with an electrical engineering degree and 30 years of carpentry and fabrication experience can laugh just as hard about the efforts of pretty much anyone here, and the idea that you can and should make fun of people who make different decisions than you is a load of self-serving crap.  It's not just about crapmame, and it certainly isn't about bullying.  It's about the fact that no matter how hard you pat each other on the back, the emperor still has no damn clothes.

Experienced a similar thing a few years ago when I ventured (back) into car audio and a forum in particular that had DIY in the title.  The brand snobbishness, the pseudoscience, the intimidation of not having the "vast knowledge or experienced ears" to have a system that was worthy of approval.  I tried to educate myself but really it wasn't worth the effort to impress an online community of grown men that talk about speakers all day, sometimes for years and years.

Most of the build threads on here just want a pat on the back and some camaraderie, perhaps a bit of friendly advice.  I've grown some thick skin from this site, not in the way that I'm accepting of criticism of my build, but that I just don't care what the purist's around here think about my led buttons or weecade clone.

[leapinlew]

Most of the build threads on here just want a pat on the back and some camaraderie, perhaps a bit of friendly advice. 

I feel that when viewing the project announcements, that's overwhelmingly what I see, encouragement and atta-boys.

I've grown some thick skin from this site, not in the way that I'm accepting of criticism of my build, but that I just don't care what the purist's around here think about my led buttons or weecade clone.

The BYOAC community is so far from purists, I'm honestly baffled anyone would feel this way.

If someone asks a question, they are going to get some opinions back. I guess I don't understand where it's going wrong after that? I can point to many examples, from just this year, of people asking for advice/opinions on their upcoming build and they were helped by veterans.

The latest kerfuffle I was in, the question was "Should I use all the roms or just the best?". This is a perfect example of something where the majority of people has an opinion one way and a few people believe another way. In your opinion, what should the community do when someone asks a question like that?

[DrakeTungsten]

and the idea that you can and should make fun of people who make different decisions than you is a load of self-serving crap.

When I designed my first control panel, I left room for a trackball (which I never got around to installing). But because I always intended to install one, I took notice whenever I ran across mention of trackballs in these forums, and soon realized trackballs were frowned upon. The thing is, with but one sort-of exception, it was never explained *why* it was a bad idea. As far as I could tell, the only concrete reason to not include a trackball was to avoid ridicule from certain vocal elements.

Of course, this happens with other topics as well, and all the crowing about how helpful their ridicule is is absurd. Yes, the ridicule of a stranger is nothing to cry about (but just watch the raw emotion and vitriol on display when they end up on the receiving end).  But there are times when that's all there is - if you don't also include the "why" of it, or anything else constructive, then, at the very least, have a modicum of integrity and don't throw a tantrum to distract from being called out for being unhelpful. And even if you occasionally accompany your ridicule with constructive criticism, if you have a pattern of including an element of ridicule and scorn regardless, then let's not be politically correct by pretending that helping people is your primary purpose for ridiculing. At that point, you're just a dick who only incidentally provides some help.

I used to be puzzled why people would ask advice on topics for which the only deciding criterion is personal preference. I think I figured it out - these are probably submissive types who either: 1) Want to score points by giving certain people another opportunity to indulge in "unconstructive criticism" (euphemisms which blunt the description of our Dutch Uncles' behaviors are, hypocritically enough, welcome around here), but on a safe topic, or 2) Who genuinely don't want to make a choice for their cabinet just because it might be mocked later.  It's too bad their submissive natures are exploited like this.

[Frank Drebin]

I feel that when viewing the project announcements, that's overwhelmingly what I see, encouragement and atta-boys.



The BYOAC community is so far from purists, I'm honestly baffled anyone would feel this way.

If someone asks a question, they are going to get some opinions back. I guess I don't understand where it's going wrong after that? I can point to many examples, from just this year, of people asking for advice/opinions on their upcoming build and they were helped by veterans.

The latest kerfuffle I was in, the question was "Should I use all the roms or just the best?". This is a perfect example of something where the majority of people has an opinion one way and a few people believe another way. In your opinion, what should the community do when someone asks a question like that?

There is a level of "apparent snobbishness" on this forum that mocks posters/ideas even when they are not around or have left the board.  Some examples are multi character artwork, led buttons, led screens, 8 buttons, console emulators on arcade machines, etc.  Its clear that a vocal part of the community disapproves of certain builds and they are sort of an inside joke with this group.  But I guess thats what happens when you hang out on a board for 10+ years that is dedicated to building arcade machines.

I agree a lot of questions are asked and answered politely - to be truthful after reading through the rom thread you mentioned - there was no conflicts that I could see.

As for me calling this a community of purists - in the build threads its the restores/replicas that garner the most attention.   Some will stop by with some advice for a mame cab but they are largely ignored.

[leapinlew]

I agree a lot of questions are asked and answered politely - to be truthful after reading through the rom thread you mentioned - there was no conflicts that I could see.

That thread was cleaned up after the blow up. it basically degenerated into a fight between newer members and established members?

As for me calling this a community of purists - in the build threads its the restores/replicas that garner the most attention.   Some will stop by with some advice for a mame cab but they are largely ignored.

So, is the snobby behavior coming out of the restore/replicas portion? While I don't frequent there often, I would have to say that if I did, I would expect there to be a certain amount of perfectionism. I don't really know what to say about that except do you remember the first scene in Rock Star where they were fighting about who was the most authentic Steel Dragon look-alike? LoL, that's what I would expect in any replica/restore topic anywhere online, in any category.

As for people asking for advice on mame and then ignored, unless I'm misunderstanding I have always seen the BYOAC as an extremely helpful community and I do not see many requests being ignored.

[yotsuya]

This thread has outlived its usefulness.

[Ginsu Victim]

If I hadn't discovered this site, I was going to use this as my first "cabinet"

[DrakeTungsten]

to be truthful after reading through the rom thread you mentioned - there was no conflicts that I could see.

Well of course not. It was a straw man. Nobody claimed every thread here is plagued with ridicule and such. But Lew found a harmless thread and for some reason held it up as an example of a kerfuffle. If even asking a question in which possible answers may differ from your answer qualifies as a kerfuffle, I think that tells us more about the thickness of Lew's skin than anything else.

Edit: Lew posted while I was posting, saying that all of the bad behavior had been scrubbed from the thread. I think he's confusing two threads, but even if he's correct, my point still stands: Why hold it up as an example of how well certain people conduct themselves when you believe all of the bad behavior has been deleted?

[leapinlew]

You're right, I was confusing 2 threads, but they were close enough to the same topic - and besides, I didn't think anyone would actually go looking to read it. You can see it here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,149514.40.html

Tone in the written word is often left up to the reader, and I'm sure some of the issues that crop up from time to time are the result of a misread.

This is a live and let live, let bygones by bygones kind of place. I already forgot you were the "circle jerk" comment guy until I had to search for the thread.
 

[dmckean]

This thread has outlived its usefulness.

+1

[danny_galaga]

I keep seeing this ad on Craig's list, and bafflingly, it hasn't sold despite being on there for months.
I'm quite surprised, as it plays over 1,000 games, promises endless fun, and even has a blacklight!
A steal at $990

https://newjersey.craigslist.org/vgm/5518835373.html

[Malenko]

This thread has outlived its usefulness.

agreed. Gold stars and granola bars for everyone!

[CheffoJeffo]

On the general cool scale, we're about one step up from My Little Pony fans

 

By which I mean this is tremendously funny, rings true to a grain and is mean and disparaging.

What was your objection again?

 

[Token]

Both sides make some good points every time this discussion comes up. But nobody ever changes their minds.