Crapmame Contender :D

[Jamesbeat]

I keep seeing this ad on Craig's list, and bafflingly, it hasn't sold despite being on there for months.
I'm quite surprised, as it plays over 1,000 games, promises endless fun, and even has a blacklight!
A steal at $990

https://newjersey.craigslist.org/vgm/5518835373.html

[popsicle]

In Philadelphia, it's worth 50 bucks.

[Token]

At least it's not 16:9.

[Jamesbeat]

At least it's not 16:9.

I would have thought that would be obvious - 16:9 would have made the fun more than endless, thus creating a paradox, which, coupled with the UV rays, would cause the device to implode.

[vwalbridge]

That machine has a bright future.

[pbj]

Meh, it's not horrible.  Always love ads where they post a price and then add that they're negotiable. 

[jeremymtc]

I see your neon backlight equipped masterpiece, and raise you this fantastic 60-in-one setup: 

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/tag/5524400048.html

I think he meant 'portable'.

[bandontherun]

My MAME setup is similar the the OPs link. Just an LCD, Tankstick w/Trackball and a desk like setup that brings the CP to arcade cab height. It works great for experimenting with MAME but of course the full size Galaga themed cab with CRT and ArcadeSD in it is the go to machine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bandontherun]

My MAME setup is similar the the OPs link. Just an LCD, Tankstick w/Trackball and a desk like setup that brings the CP to arcade cab height. It works great for experimenting with MAME but of course the full size Galaga themed cab with CRT and ArcadeSD in it is the go to machine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dmckean]

I see your neon backlight equipped masterpiece, and raise you this fantastic 60-in-one setup: 

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/tag/5524400048.html

I think he meant 'portable'.

That's actually not horrible, my first standalone stick looked pretty similar (but with no motorcycle graphics). The $400 he's asking for it is crazy though.

[smass]

Holy cow.  These "builds" make my cheap build look like hall of fame quality.  Imagine if you could command these kind of prices for home brew mame systems?  I might have a second career that makes more than my day job....if only....

And as far as the first system goes - dude didn't have the money/time/common sense to at least paint the whole hot mess black?  A $20 can of paint applied with a brush might actually make that thing look halfway decent....lol

[Token]

I ain't gonna take a crap on someone for putting together a cheap machine to play some classic games.

But yeah, there is no excuse for the asking prices.

[Jamesbeat]

You know, if this was someone's first build to have a bit of fun with his/her friends and family, I would admire that. It's not all that bad., and it would do the job.
Slap a $990 price tag on it though, and you have a crapmame.

[Xiaou2]

Years ago, on a road trip to an auction, Id met a guy who built crap-mame machines... on purpose.  Nice guy actually.

 He scoops up machines from OPs that decided to quit the business... for dirt cheap.   Then he does as little as possible, to make them play mame.   The cabs are usually conversions too...  and often beat up a bit.   Doesnt matter to him.  He would drill a few more holes, and call it a day.   For him, its seemed to be more about making the most money...  and guess what?  People bought them... so... its really a matter of perspective.

 Not everyone knows about mame,  some are frightened at woodworking, and or basic wiring electronics... and or working with computer software.  Some dont have the time either.

 This looks like a concerted piece of furniture or a Kiosk.   Maybe an attempt to simulate a Tron look... or at very least, has some nice blacklight posters / parties.   Meh...  its not bad.   Then again, making fun of others beginner woodworking skills, is pointless and does not generate any positive results.

 I remember making a stand alone fighter-stick to play Killer Instinct on the Snes.  I used one of those old hand crank spiral drills to make the holes in some scrap wood... a screwdriver as the joystick, 2-liter bottle caps as the buttons, a lot of hot glue... and some old microswitches Id snagged from somewhere.   It worked,  ...not well... but it was a fun try.  I didnt own any real tools, nor could afford any at the time.  This was way before Id ran into BYOAC.

[Xiaou2]

You know, if this was someone's first build to have a bit of fun with his/her friends and family, I would admire that. It's not all that bad., and it would do the job.
Slap a $990 price tag on it though, and you have a crapmame.

 I have to disagree.

 The crap-mame site has no referenced to sale prices.

 Its mere existence is basically to mock others,  trying to boost the guys own personal satisfaction of attention, to feed his Narcissism / Ego...  as well as his Nazi like Rigidity... that every cabinet should meet his ideas of what his personal specs should be.

[pbj]

'Nazi like Rigidity' might be taking that a touch too far, bro.

[yotsuya]

You know, if this was someone's first build to have a bit of fun with his/her friends and family, I would admire that. It's not all that bad., and it would do the job.
Slap a $990 price tag on it though, and you have a crapmame.

 I have to disagree.

 The crap-mame site has no referenced to sale prices.

 Its mere existence is basically to mock others,  trying to boost the guys own personal satisfaction of attention, to feed his Narcissism / Ego...  as well as his Nazi like Rigidity... that every cabinet should meet his ideas of what his personal specs should be.

To be fair, the guy DID include one of his OWN projects as an example, so he clearly showed he wasn't just about criticizing others.. 

'Nazi like Rigidity' might be taking that a touch too far, bro.

He always has a habit of Goering too far..

[monkeybomb]

Not everyone knows about mame

If you're selling something with the hope that people simply don't know what's out there, then you're a world class a-hole ---meecrob---.  Not sure if this craigslist post is hoping for that or if he thinks he's got a gem to sell at a fair price. Not sure if you're nice guy friend capitalized on that either, but it's clearly what a lot of craigslist posts are going after.  They're basically selling MAME and emulation in general more than their cabinet.  I won't even let people check out my cabinet without telling people what my tiny role in the whole thing was.  I can't imagine taking money and not telling the full story.

[smass]

lol.  Nazi?  So now you poke fun at someone and its okay for the PC police to call you a Nazi?  Get some perspective man.  This CL dude was/is trying to bilk someone out of  $1000 for a cobbled together POS and its off limits for anyone to point out the humor/horror?  Sorry, but its our duty as reasonable human beings with healthy senses of humor to point at this and laugh.  Our DUTY I tell ya

[Jamesbeat]

You know, if this was someone's first build to have a bit of fun with his/her friends and family, I would admire that. It's not all that bad., and it would do the job.
Slap a $990 price tag on it though, and you have a crapmame.

 I have to disagree.

 The crap-mame site has no referenced to sale prices.

 Its mere existence is basically to mock others,  trying to boost the guys own personal satisfaction of attention, to feed his Narcissism / Ego...  as well as his Nazi like Rigidity... that every cabinet should meet his ideas of what his personal specs should be.

For my new build, I'm using a core 2 duo machine given to me by my boss.
It is suitable for the  job required of it, and it was free, so that makes it a great machine.
If my boss had offered to sell it to me for $300, it would still be suitable for the job, but it would also become an overpriced piece of junk.

If a guy, who perhaps didn't have much money, tools or woodworking skills built this for his kids, it would be the best mame cabinet in the world, and he would qualify for a World's Best Dad mug.

If, however, someone offered it for sale at a ridiculous price, based solely on the fact that the majority of people don't know about mame, it instantly becomes crapmame.

Crapness can definitely be dependent on circumstances and price.

[yotsuya]

CrapMAME definitely serves a purpose. I studied each build on that site religiously before I even decided to build my own. Yeah, the tone may be mean-spirited and sarcastic, but like I mentioned before, the guy presented his own project as an example of what not to do, so I give him some slack.

[dmckean]

Crapmame helped up everyone's game. There's been some crap-tastic builds in the years since crapmame but at least they tend not to put multiple tron sticks on a control panel or build their cabinet out of particle board with a single coat of paint.

[Xiaou2]

Crapmame helped up everyone's game. There's been some crap-tastic builds in the years since crapmame but at least they tend not to put multiple tron sticks on a control panel or build their cabinet out of particle board with a single coat of paint.

 And that purpose is  "Bull-Crap" .   Its his personal "FORCED" opinions.

 There is Nothing wrong with putting a Tron stick... or several Tron sticks on a CP.   Most especially if you have good taste in games... (shared opinion)  such as to play Mad Planets, Tron, and a bunch of other great classics that utilize them.

[Xiaou2]

CrapMAME definitely serves a purpose. I studied each build on that site religiously before I even decided to build my own. Yeah, the tone may be mean-spirited and sarcastic, but like I mentioned before, the guy presented his own project as an example of what not to do, so I give him some slack.

 It does not change the game.

 Just because you Spew Hate on yourself... does not make it any more right to hate on others.
 Just because you smash your smash your nuts with a hammer... does not make it right to smash others nuts with a hammer.

 Rigid and destructively negative behavior,  should not be given any form of Justification.


 Should we give the person whom cuts his own arm with a knife... a break in his sentencing from cutting someone else's arm with a knife?!

 You can choose to use your own project lessons as a guide to others..  and or to ask permission to use others projects for lessons that they learned... and you would get far more cooperation and positive results.  Instead, you just get a a handful of really ticked off people... and you further encourage others in the hobby, "not" to participate in sharing their creations... for fear of being similarly persecuted against his "Golden-Opinions".

 The guy is a Turd, plain and simple.

[smass]

Okay.  My comments are directed at the CL ad that was posted by the OP.  I don't know anything about this "crapmame" website and don't care to.  I stand by MY OPINION that the dude selling the janky-cab referenced by the OP is deserving of ridicule because A. Its a terrible build by any standard B. He is trying to charge $1000 for said crap.  Thats all folks...

[Xiaou2]

If, however, someone offered it for sale at a ridiculous price, based solely on the fact that the majority of people don't know about mame, it instantly becomes crapmame.

Sorry, but thats not true.

 Crapmame is a website, that is used to destructively mock and shame others... based mostly on asthetic look.   It has NOTHING to do with sales of cabinets.

 In fact, some young kid made a cardboard mame cabinet... and the typical thugs here started throwing their rotten eggs at him and his creations.. UNTIL  they got the full story.   We are talking maybe 20 or more vicious and degrading comment posts.   Did the appologies change the pain from the cuts inflicted?!   Do you think this kid will want to post future projects here?   Doubt it.  Do you think others will be inspired to post here, after seeing those negative comments?

 Crapmame stands for persecution.  It has no care nor concern for the individual.  Its founder does not care if you dont have good tools.  Its founder does not care.. if your woodworking is poor because you have MS, or some other form of impairment.   Its founder does not care if these are young childrens creations.  He is a negative wretch... and he believes in abuse and exploitation.  His moral sensibility is either warped.. or simply non-existent.  IE: A Psychopathic Narcissist.   The Narcissism is obvious, as he clearly wants attention...  and has no problem throwing people under a bus to get it.

 While I do agree that Over-Charging for things is also not morally great...  that does not make it crap-mame.  That simply makes a person morally bankrupt... (or possibly desperate to pay some bills... ).   Quite honestly, the whole idea of capitalism, is basically to exploit others.  Cheapest labor that a company can find (such as in China)... a middleman markup,  and an end-seller profit as well.   The people whom spent 3 hours hand making your jeans,  got mere pennies to do it.   Its not fair.. but.. at very least.. the companies that utilize such slave labor practices.. do not post photos of the half-dead, starved and sleep deprived workers, with abusive and negative comments under them,  ... on a website devoted to trashing others personally,  for personal enjoyment.

[Xiaou2]

'Nazi like Rigidity' might be taking that a touch too far, bro.

 Theres something admirable about your honesty.. about being dishonest.   But really... Can we expect you to understand Moral's..  the self-admitted Amazon scammer?   Everyone wants to stick it to the "man",  especially since we all get Stuck by the man...  but the problem is.. that the man whos lifting the heavy boxes is the one whom is really getting the shaft, in the end.   You only see your own bottom line... and do not really care about whom your exploits effect.  Either you, yourself .. are clueless...  Or,  you are simply of a nature that does not have any empathy.

 Even all that said, I find you immensely more human, and more palatable... than the Nazi-Cabber, and its followers.

[yotsuya]

I've got to figure out a way to get Steve to ZapCon '17....

[harveybirdman]

Wow the single best poster on this site responsible for bringing loads of members together from all over the world to enjoy this hobby together in the spirit of true camaraderie is by your description an inhuman "Nazi-cabber?"

I think that tells you all their is to know about X2 folks.......

[Token]

At this point I'm wishing I lived in a world where the crapmame author had left X2's prototype rotating panel off the list.

[yotsuya]

At this point I'm wishing I lived in a world where the crapmame author had left X2's prototype rotating panel off the list.

Yeah,  it's funny,  other guys who were showcased have piped up on here and didn't seem to be as butthurt.

[Jamesbeat]

If, however, someone offered it for sale at a ridiculous price, based solely on the fact that the majority of people don't know about mame, it instantly becomes crapmame.

Sorry, but thats not true.

 Crapmame is a website, that is used to destructively mock and shame others... based mostly on asthetic look.   It has NOTHING to do with sales of cabinets.

 In fact, some young kid made a cardboard mame cabinet... and the typical thugs here started throwing their rotten eggs at him and his creations.. UNTIL  they got the full story.   We are talking maybe 20 or more vicious and degrading comment posts.   Did the appologies change the pain from the cuts inflicted?!   Do you think this kid will want to post future projects here?   Doubt it.  Do you think others will be inspired to post here, after seeing those negative comments?

 Crapmame stands for persecution.  It has no care nor concern for the individual.  Its founder does not care if you dont have good tools.  Its founder does not care.. if your woodworking is poor because you have MS, or some other form of impairment.   Its founder does not care if these are young childrens creations.  He is a negative wretch... and he believes in abuse and exploitation.  His moral sensibility is either warped.. or simply non-existent.  IE: A Psychopathic Narcissist.   The Narcissism is obvious, as he clearly wants attention...  and has no problem throwing people under a bus to get it.

 While I do agree that Over-Charging for things is also not morally great...  that does not make it crap-mame.  That simply makes a person morally bankrupt... (or possibly desperate to pay some bills... ).   Quite honestly, the whole idea of capitalism, is basically to exploit others.  Cheapest labor that a company can find (such as in China)... a middleman markup,  and an end-seller profit as well.   The people whom spent 3 hours hand making your jeans,  got mere pennies to do it.   Its not fair.. but.. at very least.. the companies that utilize such slave labor practices.. do not post photos of the half-dead, starved and sleep deprived workers, with abusive and negative comments under them,  ... on a website devoted to trashing others personally,  for personal enjoyment.

Satire is a perfectly valid form of humor, and is even specifically protected by law.
I'm sorry we can't all hold hands and be nice to each other, but bad builds need to be singled out for ridicule, otherwise what's the point of all the spectacular builds that some members here have accomplished?

Crapmame is a bit mean, but it draws attention (in a comical manner) to extreme examples of mistakes that a lot of beginners make.
For instance, if it wasn't for crapmame and some equally 'mean' threads on here, I might have attempted to squeeze a trackball onto my 24" two player panel.
I for one am glad that I saw the mistakes of other builders, because it helped me avoid making them myself.

[pbj]

Some dude ripped off Maddox 10+ years ago and we're still blathering about it.

Good grief.

Lick your wounds, move on.

 

[smass]

At this point I'm wishing I lived in a world where the crapmame author had left X2's prototype rotating panel off the list.

Ah...now I get it.  Doth he protest too much?

Seriously guys, I didn't see that coming, now I may pee my pants...

[Jamesbeat]

At this point I'm wishing I lived in a world where the crapmame author had left X2's prototype rotating panel off the list.

Ah...now I get it.  Doth he protest too much?

Seriously guys, I didn't see that coming, now I may pee my pants...

Ah. I see. Now it all makes sense.

[CheffoJeffo]

Is it me or has Steve's vehemence actually increased with the passage of time?

While it can be amusing to see somebody rage against judgement and insults using nothing but judgement and insults, it's times like these that we should remember the words of that "worthless button pusher" and "Crybaby turd tosser egotistical self righteous miserable coward stink hole":

And, before Xouchey shows up, let's all agree not to call each other Nazis, because that is just a ---smurfing--- stupid thing to do.

[yotsuya]

[CheffoJeffo]

 

[deadmoney5]

If people are willing to shell out a grand for pieces of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- like that, I don't see how that's the seller's problem.

[yotsuya]

If people are willing to shell out a grand for pieces of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- like that, I don't see how that's the seller's problem.

They can ASK for $1000, but that doesn't mean they get it.

[Malenko]

Nothing like a good nut rest.

Can everyone just ignore that guy? For the love of all that is holy, from the Pope to Swiss cheese, stop quoting him.

[leapinlew]

Interesting reply from the big X. Maybe a little concerning as he rarely gets so sharp with his comments until he's been prodded a few times. He has always taken the stance that BYAOC should be about support and encouragement. To a point, I agree. I've seen only a few posts at BYOAC get ugly when someone MAME's a classic. In my opinion, it's their machine. They can do what they want to it.

Sure, it hurts to see someone gut a machine I would gladly restore. But it's there machine. On one hand, there is nothing wrong with giving someone some nugget of wisdom you've acquired but keep in mind, it's their machine and they have the freedom to listen to you or not.

[CheffoJeffo]

Since we're on the topic of CrapMAME, the following was just posted in one of the refuges for former BYOACer's as an homage to MAME cabs of days gone by:



http://www.amazon.com/dp/B019S0WD5C?psc=1

[nipsmg]

Since we're on the topic of CrapMAME, the following was just posted in one of the refuges for former BYOACer's as an homage to MAME cabs of days gone by:

HAHAHA that's awesome.  I think I had that stuff on my first CP.

[Hoopz]

Since we're on the topic of CrapMAME, the following was just posted in one of the refuges for former BYOACer's as an homage to MAME cabs of days gone by:

HAHAHA that's awesome.  I think I had that stuff on my first CP.

I did the black with blue lightning bolts on mine.   

[Malenko]

I went full on white marble contact paper:


Dat control panel angle though, total wrist breaker.


My first cab was more than worthy of being on crapMAME but there no point in being ashamed of it. Pretending it didn't happen or getting upset that people are making fun of something so bad is no way to live your life. Being ---smurfy--- at something is the first step at being good at it. And hey, it might suck but at least I actually built something, right?

[yotsuya]

My first cab was more than worthy of being on crapMAME but there no point in being ashamed of it. Pretending it didn't happen or getting upset that people are making fun of something so bad is no way to live your life. Being ---smurfy--- at something is the first step at being good at it. And hey, it might suck but at least I actually built something, right?

Well said.

[smass]

Wow, I didn't realize marble contact paper had such a huge following back in the day.  There must have been shortages and price gouging at home depot 

(I am just having fun with this by the way, I am sure that if I was involved in the hobby back in the day I would have gone full contact paper crazy as well)

[yotsuya]

Wow, I didn't realize marble contact paper had such a huge following back in the day.  There must have been shortages and price gouging at home depot
(I am just having fun with this by the way, I am sure that if I was involved in the hobby back in the day I would have gone full contact paper crazy as well)

Right, the farther we get away from the CrapMAME era, the funnier I think it is to look at some of these early mistakes, mistakes that were made because honestly people didn't know any better. But CrapMAME is good because it really allowed us to evolve as a hobby. I posted a little while back that I thought we were in a Golden Age of cabinet building*, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that people are finding that site and vowing not to repeat those mistakes.



* I really don't feel that way anymore. If anything, we're in a copycat phase right now.

[pbj]

Eh, I think we knew better but a lot of this stuff was hard to come by.... there weren't many suppliers, there wasn't much out there like this forum... we were all using cast off junk computers, the front ends weren't well developed...

Respective ages and disposable income probably had a lot to do with it.  My option back then was an extension cord and using my circular saw to make cuts as quickly as possible out on my apartment landing. 

Making something that worked for $200 was the goal back then, regardless of the hackery it took to get there.  Our ability to plan longer term, budget accordingly, and tastes that gradually improved as we've aged... that's the ticket.

[yotsuya]

Eh, I think we knew better but a lot of this stuff was hard to come by.... there weren't many suppliers, there wasn't much out there like this forum... we were all using cast off junk computers, the front ends weren't well developed...

Respective ages and disposable income probably had a lot to do with it.  My option back then was an extension cord and using my circular saw to make cuts as quickly as possible out on my apartment landing. 

Making something that worked for $200 was the goal back then, regardless of the hackery it took to get there.  Our ability to plan longer term, budget accordingly, and tastes that gradually improved as we've aged... that's the ticket.

Yeah,  I don't disagree with this.  It shows today when people try to take the really cheap route.

[Malenko]

Wow, I didn't realize marble contact paper had such a huge following back in the day.  There must have been shortages and price gouging at home depot 

(I am just having fun with this by the way, I am sure that if I was involved in the hobby back in the day I would have gone full contact paper crazy as well)

The funny part is you aren't completely wrong.  People were selling "arcade wrapping vinyl" on eBay for like $40 a roll and it was like $6 at the depot. My biggest regret about my first mame cab wasnt how it looked or played but that I pretty much destroyed a dedicated cab in my ignorance.

[leapinlew]

Nowadays, full side art and LED buttons are the norm.

Back in the day, when I built my Tempest bartop, the full sideart for it was around $100. Now I can full wrap an arcade cabinet for around $65.

[CheffoJeffo]

Eh, I think we knew better but a lot of this stuff was hard to come by.... there weren't many suppliers, there wasn't much out there like this forum... we were all using cast off junk computers, the front ends weren't well developed...

This.

Keyboard hacking, limited options for new parts, more limited options for artwork, expensive monitors. Those were the norm.

[CheffoJeffo]

It was also a time of great experimentation and people tried all sorts of crazy things.

Yeah, X's crazy rolly setup looks insane, but he was experimenting. And it's not entirely dissimilar from 1up's rotating panels, which are still an innovative solution:



In the same vein, unclet is featured on CrapMAME and won a Mamey for the same cab back when racers were rare beasts.

The "why don't I" spirit led to one of my favourite cocktail builds, and I am surprised it didn't end up on CrapMAME:

[Hoopz]

There's only one person who gets upset about Crapmame and its because he was on it.  Everyone else rolls with the punches and doesn't get their panties in a bunch.  Ironically, he's the first to become combative when he perceives that someone isn't allowed to express their opinion yet blasts others when they share theirs if he disagrees with it.  And he'll threaten to kick everyone's asses.   

Oh well.  Cant learn if you don't make mistakes.  I did finally throw away that contact paper roll that I kept for years.

[yotsuya]

I think that experimentation helped refine things and get us to where we are  today. But some things are just common sense.

[vwalbridge]

I think that experimentation helped refine things and get us to where we are  today. But some things are just common sense.

Exactly. You just summed it up perfectly for me.

[Jamesbeat]

I work for a flooring contractor, and I have access to real marble. Maybe I should make a genuine marble control panel

[RandyT]

Eh, I think we knew better but a lot of this stuff was hard to come by.... there weren't many suppliers, there wasn't much out there like this forum... we were all using cast off junk computers, the front ends weren't well developed...

Respective ages and disposable income probably had a lot to do with it.  My option back then was an extension cord and using my circular saw to make cuts as quickly as possible out on my apartment landing. 

Making something that worked for $200 was the goal back then, regardless of the hackery it took to get there.  Our ability to plan longer term, budget accordingly, and tastes that gradually improved as we've aged... that's the ticket.

+Eleventy.

10 years ago, long prior to the time I invented the TurboTwist2 design, this was my contribution to help folks get a spinner in their cab without breaking the bank:



It was "crapmame" worthy, but not half as bad as the first design I came up with.  I don't feel too bad about it, but I do keep the photo around to lift my own spirits occasionally.  I don't think I even sold any.   

And no, the wood wasn't included.....and no, I won't make you one 

[bandontherun]

My MAME setup is similar the the OPs link. Just an LCD, Tankstick w/Trackball and a desk like setup that brings the CP to arcade cab height. It works great for experimenting with MAME but of course the full size Galaga themed cab with CRT and ArcadeSD in it is the go to machine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Slippyblade]

...and no, I won't make you one 

Darn!  I'd plug it into a panel next to a roller-ball deodorant trackball.

[Nocturnaloner]

For instance, if it wasn't for crapmame and some equally 'mean' threads on here, I might have attempted to squeeze a trackball onto my 24" two player panel.

Oh, the horror!    I better give back all the years of enjoyment I've had with this panel :


Why is this so bad again?  Someone wouldn't want to go for a Centipede or Robotron record with it?  I'll get over it.

The worst thing about the current culture of this hobby is the desperate need that some people seem to have to trash the efforts of others, especially beginners.  The biggest flapping mouths always delude themselves that they have a higher standard than everyone else, and therefore they need to 'set people straight' about the correct way to do things.  That in turn gives rise to the spineless toadies who cheer them on.  Unfortunately the internet causes this cycle to repeat in pretty much every hobby or pursuit that has a message board.  The idea that you could make a website dedicated to making fun of people who are doing the best they can with what they have is precious and cowardly, and only possible for those with an excess of time and money, and a deficit of empathy.

[RandyT]

Sometimes criticism (yes, even non-constructive varieties) can motivate individuals to strive to improve their lot. 

That said, your panel looks just fine with the trackball.  Not everyone plays Golden Tee, or games which use the TB like that title does, so it seems plenty functional.  Mine is hanging off the side, and the mouse buttons are two microswitches double-stickied to the side of it.  But it's used mostly as a mouse and the machine is primarily a test bed.  My trackball setup is definitely "crapMAME" worthy, but I don't care too much about what it looks like as long as it does what it's supposed to.  Poke fun at it all you want (wait, someone already did)  .

[Token]

The worst thing about the current culture of this hobby is the desperate need that some people seem to have to trash the efforts of others, especially beginners. 

You make a solid point, and it's more widespread than just BYOAC. The lack of civility and empathy is a reflection of our broader culture.

There is room on hobbyist sites for criticism and feedback. In fact there isn't much point to a site like BYOAC without criticism and feedback. But in the words of Winston Churchill, "When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."

[yotsuya]

Relax, no one's bringing back CrapMAME. But it exists, and to say that it hasn't had a useful place in this hobby is simply disgenous. I know learned from it, as have many other members.

And stop this "you guys just like to pick on newbies." Many guys have posted first projects that are stunning.  And most of the time, it's clear they've done their homework before committing saw blade to wood.

I've been in this hobby long enough to know the only people who get offended by feedback are those that truly aren't looking for it.

[CheffoJeffo]

Man, there is a lot of hate about a crappy website that some random BYOACer threw together over a decade ago for a laugh. One guy. Over a decade ago. Put his own cab on it.

He posted about it here, taking all of the hits for what he had done. He was a lot nicer than the people who rant about what a terrible person he is.

The idea that you could make a website dedicated to making fun of people who are doing the best they can with what they have is precious and cowardly, and only possible for those with an excess of time and money, and a deficit of empathy.

Have you actually seen the site? 

[Malenko]

The worst thing about the current culture of this hobby is the desperate need that some people seem to have to trash the efforts of others, especially beginners.

This is a complete load of ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. I'm not saying it never happens, but its the exception and not the rule.   Please show me where BYOAC dog piled on a newb  and lambasted him/her with vitriol and not honest feedback. I'm going to need at least 10 examples to even consider quantifying it as any sort of "regular occurrence"   Citing PBJ or X2 as a source immediately disqualifies you. Try not to go back 5 years to get your 10 examples.

I've been in this hobby long enough to know the only people who get offended by feedback are those that truly aren't looking for it.

Truer words were never spoken.

[pbj]

The worst thing about the current culture of this hobby is the desperate need that some people seem to have to trash the efforts of others, especially beginners.

This is a complete load of ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. I'm not saying it never happens, but its the exception and not the rule.

Agree.

Citing PBJ or X2 as a source immediately disqualifies you.

I don't recall ever really dog piling on someone's project, but thanks for dragging me into this.

[Malenko]

I don't recall ever really dog piling on someone's project, but thanks for dragging me into this.

Ha! X2 cited cause he's a psycho provides colorful walls of text that may or may not be confused as more than 1 person posting, you were cited because you give honest feedback that gets jimmys rustled. 

[pbj]

True.

[dmckean]

Ha! X2 cited cause he's a psycho provides colorful walls of text that may or may not be confused as more than 1 person posting, you were cited because you give honest feedback that gets jimmys rustled. 

LOL.

[ark_ader]

This gives me an idea what to do with with the Xarcade and that Sony Trinitron that nobody wants.  Now just need a microwave stand...

[Token]

I'm not a fan of the sophomoric delivery, but the message of crapmame was right on, can be found at the bottom of page 31, and saved a lot of us from making some bad design decisions. There's no doubt that crapmame advanced the quality of subsequent builds.

As is often mentioned, and to his credit, epthegeek did post his own cabinet on crapmame.

But the most important lesson from CrapMame is page 23.

And since I going all linky-linky here, the first time crapmame was discussed on BYOAC, it pretty much went how every thread that brings up crapmame has gone ever since.

[yotsuya]

To me the delivery is what makes the message the most effective. It's almost like you're talking to a friend who's being honest with you. I don't expect my true friends to sugar-coat things just because they don't want to hurt my feelings. I'd really rather know what they thought, and why they thought that.

[Token]

To me the delivery is what makes the message the most effective. It's almost like you're talking to a friend who's being honest with you. I don't expect my true friends to sugar-coat things just because they don't want to hurt my feelings. I'd really rather know what they thought, and why they thought that.

Better are the wounds of a friend, than the kisses of an enemy.

But there is room between insulting feedback and "everybody gets a prize."

[yotsuya]

To me the delivery is what makes the message the most effective. It's almost like you're talking to a friend who's being honest with you. I don't expect my true friends to sugar-coat things just because they don't want to hurt my feelings. I'd really rather know what they thought, and why they thought that.

Better are the wounds of a friend, than the kisses of an enemy.

But there is room between insulting feedback and "everybody gets a prize."

Token, as a fellow educator,  there is no way I'd use that kind of feedback with students.  But try thinking outside that box and see CrapMAME's delivery as part of the cautionary tale that it is,  and you'll see it's effectiveness.

[smass]

Constructive criticism is fine.  In fact it is essential to the evolution of ideas.  Poking fun at something is also fine.  Being able to take some ribbing is an essential skill that everyone should develop early on in life.  The old saying "sticks and stones" comes to mind.  Every person should be able to deal with some criticism (constructive or not) without turning into a basket case, and learning how deal with criticism is an important part of the maturation process.  What is wrong with our current PC society is that some people (many people) view any form of criticism as "bullying".  This is simply a load of crap.   We have become so thin-skinned and quick to take offense (as a society) that we run the very real risk of slowing down progress and creating a society where everyone walks around on egg shells and is afraid to point out the "elephant in the room" for fear of being labeled a "bully". 

The "elephant in the room" that started this thread is ripe for criticism, and for poking fun at, because....*drum roll*...it looks silly as hell and the guy is asking a ridiculous price it.  Period.  And I am not going to apologize for having that opinion.  Nor am I going to keep my opinions to myself.  And I would not expect any of you to edit you opinions of me either.  I am an adult, I can can take it.  And give it back.

Reminds me of one of my favorite sports related quotes/rants:

[DrakeTungsten]

Every person should be able to deal with some criticism (constructive or not) without turning into a basket case, and learning how deal with criticism is an important part of the maturation process.  What is wrong with our current PC society is that some people (many people) view any form of criticism as "bullying".  This is simply a load of crap.   We have become so thin-skinned and quick to take offense (as a society) that we run the very real risk of slowing down progress and creating a society where everyone walks around on egg shells and is afraid to point out the "elephant in the room" for fear of being labeled a "bully". 

This community, at least, obviously harbors a fearless band of Dutch Uncles who wave the flag proudly for Telling Harsh Truths. Any eggshells found under-foot are crushed with a gleeful, almost obscene sense of satisfaction. It should fill you with hope for the future.

I have to ask, in the interest of directness, what the posters who have mentioned non-constructive criticism mean by this? Is there not a more descriptive, forthright word or phrase which can be substituted for this? Or at least provide an example?

[Nocturnaloner]

I'm not a fan of the sophomoric delivery, but the message of crapmame was right on, can be found at the bottom of page 31, and saved a lot of us from making some bad design decisions. There's no doubt that crapmame advanced the quality of subsequent builds.

The ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- here is that there's some absolute standard of good or bad design decisions that needs to be enforced by the white knights of coolness.  If we were brain surgeons for example, and someone's life was at stake, I could see that there might be some professional standard that needed to be complied to.  We're not.  We're guys on the internet who want to play old videogames.  On the general cool scale, we're about one step up from My Little Pony fans, so the idea of being snobbish about it is incredibly laughable.  Not a single person here can legitimately disparage the guy who bolts a 16:9 monitor to a piece of plywood and calls it a gaming station, or the kid who builds a cardboard cabinet around his Raspberry Pi, if that is the level of skill and resources they have.  The guy with an electrical engineering degree and 30 years of carpentry and fabrication experience can laugh just as hard about the efforts of pretty much anyone here, and the idea that you can and should make fun of people who make different decisions than you is a load of self-serving crap.  It's not just about crapmame, and it certainly isn't about bullying.  It's about the fact that no matter how hard you pat each other on the back, the emperor still has no damn clothes.

[leapinlew]

I'm not a fan of the sophomoric delivery, but the message of crapmame was right on, can be found at the bottom of page 31, and saved a lot of us from making some bad design decisions. There's no doubt that crapmame advanced the quality of subsequent builds.

The ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- here is that there's some absolute standard of good or bad design decisions that needs to be enforced by the white knights of coolness.  If we were brain surgeons for example, and someone's life was at stake, I could see that there might be some professional standard that needed to be complied to.  We're not.  We're guys on the internet who want to play old videogames.  On the general cool scale, we're about one step up from My Little Pony fans, so the idea of being snobbish about it is incredibly laughable.  Not a single person here can legitimately disparage the guy who bolts a 16:9 monitor to a piece of plywood and calls it a gaming station, or the kid who builds a cardboard cabinet around his Raspberry Pi, if that is the level of skill and resources they have.  The guy with an electrical engineering degree and 30 years of carpentry and fabrication experience can laugh just as hard about the efforts of pretty much anyone here, and the idea that you can and should make fun of people who make different decisions than you is a load of self-serving crap.  It's not just about crapmame, and it certainly isn't about bullying.  It's about the fact that no matter how hard you pat each other on the back, the emperor still has no damn clothes.

So... what's the deal anyhow? People post stuff on a forum and then get offended when some people don't like a design or build?

Want to put 30,000 games on your arcade? Yeah, you're going to get some opinions on why that could be a bad idea. Want to jam tons of controls on a control panel? You'll hear people sharing their stories of their similar build. How you take that advice is up to you. Again I refer people to Project Announcements to show me this herd like mentality that is apparently running rampant.

For what it's worth, for every person like you who gets offended when someone else says something they don't agree with, there are 100 others who are happy that hard earned lessons are being passed down to them. Take the advice or don't, and build what you want, but complaining about it doesn't change the general opinion that some arcade decisions are bad ideas.

[yotsuya]

I'm not a fan of the sophomoric delivery, but the message of crapmame was right on, can be found at the bottom of page 31, and saved a lot of us from making some bad design decisions. There's no doubt that crapmame advanced the quality of subsequent builds.

Not a single person here can legitimately disparage the guy who bolts a 16:9 monitor to a piece of plywood and calls it a gaming station

If he wants to sell it for over $1000, yeah, I think I can.

[Token]

I'm not a fan of the sophomoric delivery, but the message of crapmame was right on, can be found at the bottom of page 31, and saved a lot of us from making some bad design decisions. There's no doubt that crapmame advanced the quality of subsequent builds.

The ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- here is that there's some absolute standard of good or bad design decisions that needs to be enforced by the white knights of coolness.

Not an absolute standard, but depending on the builder's goals there are some design ideas that are better than others. This is true whether you are building a bridge, a table, or an arcade cabinet. I've taken my lumps here for defending someone who designed a control panel with 8 buttons per player, because the builder wanted to play some modern fighters. I've also nudged people away from 8 buttons when they had no use for more than six.

  On the general cool scale, we're about one step up from My Little Pony fans, ........ and the idea that you can and should make fun of people who make different decisions than you is a load of self-serving crap.

I agree.

[Token]

Not a single person here can legitimately disparage the guy who bolts a 16:9 monitor to a piece of plywood and calls it a gaming station

If he wants to sell it for over $1000, yeah, I think I can.

Also true.

[yotsuya]

  On the general cool scale, we're about one step up from My Little Pony fans

I agree.

Based on the amount of real, regular people who attend ZapCon and other arcade shows around the country, I'm going to have to disagree with the both of you guys.

[Frank Drebin]

I'm not a fan of the sophomoric delivery, but the message of crapmame was right on, can be found at the bottom of page 31, and saved a lot of us from making some bad design decisions. There's no doubt that crapmame advanced the quality of subsequent builds.

The ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- here is that there's some absolute standard of good or bad design decisions that needs to be enforced by the white knights of coolness.  If we were brain surgeons for example, and someone's life was at stake, I could see that there might be some professional standard that needed to be complied to.  We're not.  We're guys on the internet who want to play old videogames.  On the general cool scale, we're about one step up from My Little Pony fans, so the idea of being snobbish about it is incredibly laughable.  Not a single person here can legitimately disparage the guy who bolts a 16:9 monitor to a piece of plywood and calls it a gaming station, or the kid who builds a cardboard cabinet around his Raspberry Pi, if that is the level of skill and resources they have.  The guy with an electrical engineering degree and 30 years of carpentry and fabrication experience can laugh just as hard about the efforts of pretty much anyone here, and the idea that you can and should make fun of people who make different decisions than you is a load of self-serving crap.  It's not just about crapmame, and it certainly isn't about bullying.  It's about the fact that no matter how hard you pat each other on the back, the emperor still has no damn clothes.

Experienced a similar thing a few years ago when I ventured (back) into car audio and a forum in particular that had DIY in the title.  The brand snobbishness, the pseudoscience, the intimidation of not having the "vast knowledge or experienced ears" to have a system that was worthy of approval.  I tried to educate myself but really it wasn't worth the effort to impress an online community of grown men that talk about speakers all day, sometimes for years and years.

Most of the build threads on here just want a pat on the back and some camaraderie, perhaps a bit of friendly advice.  I've grown some thick skin from this site, not in the way that I'm accepting of criticism of my build, but that I just don't care what the purist's around here think about my led buttons or weecade clone.

[leapinlew]

Most of the build threads on here just want a pat on the back and some camaraderie, perhaps a bit of friendly advice. 

I feel that when viewing the project announcements, that's overwhelmingly what I see, encouragement and atta-boys.

I've grown some thick skin from this site, not in the way that I'm accepting of criticism of my build, but that I just don't care what the purist's around here think about my led buttons or weecade clone.

The BYOAC community is so far from purists, I'm honestly baffled anyone would feel this way.

If someone asks a question, they are going to get some opinions back. I guess I don't understand where it's going wrong after that? I can point to many examples, from just this year, of people asking for advice/opinions on their upcoming build and they were helped by veterans.

The latest kerfuffle I was in, the question was "Should I use all the roms or just the best?". This is a perfect example of something where the majority of people has an opinion one way and a few people believe another way. In your opinion, what should the community do when someone asks a question like that?

[DrakeTungsten]

and the idea that you can and should make fun of people who make different decisions than you is a load of self-serving crap.

When I designed my first control panel, I left room for a trackball (which I never got around to installing). But because I always intended to install one, I took notice whenever I ran across mention of trackballs in these forums, and soon realized trackballs were frowned upon. The thing is, with but one sort-of exception, it was never explained *why* it was a bad idea. As far as I could tell, the only concrete reason to not include a trackball was to avoid ridicule from certain vocal elements.

Of course, this happens with other topics as well, and all the crowing about how helpful their ridicule is is absurd. Yes, the ridicule of a stranger is nothing to cry about (but just watch the raw emotion and vitriol on display when they end up on the receiving end).  But there are times when that's all there is - if you don't also include the "why" of it, or anything else constructive, then, at the very least, have a modicum of integrity and don't throw a tantrum to distract from being called out for being unhelpful. And even if you occasionally accompany your ridicule with constructive criticism, if you have a pattern of including an element of ridicule and scorn regardless, then let's not be politically correct by pretending that helping people is your primary purpose for ridiculing. At that point, you're just a dick who only incidentally provides some help.

I used to be puzzled why people would ask advice on topics for which the only deciding criterion is personal preference. I think I figured it out - these are probably submissive types who either: 1) Want to score points by giving certain people another opportunity to indulge in "unconstructive criticism" (euphemisms which blunt the description of our Dutch Uncles' behaviors are, hypocritically enough, welcome around here), but on a safe topic, or 2) Who genuinely don't want to make a choice for their cabinet just because it might be mocked later.  It's too bad their submissive natures are exploited like this.

[Frank Drebin]

I feel that when viewing the project announcements, that's overwhelmingly what I see, encouragement and atta-boys.



The BYOAC community is so far from purists, I'm honestly baffled anyone would feel this way.

If someone asks a question, they are going to get some opinions back. I guess I don't understand where it's going wrong after that? I can point to many examples, from just this year, of people asking for advice/opinions on their upcoming build and they were helped by veterans.

The latest kerfuffle I was in, the question was "Should I use all the roms or just the best?". This is a perfect example of something where the majority of people has an opinion one way and a few people believe another way. In your opinion, what should the community do when someone asks a question like that?

There is a level of "apparent snobbishness" on this forum that mocks posters/ideas even when they are not around or have left the board.  Some examples are multi character artwork, led buttons, led screens, 8 buttons, console emulators on arcade machines, etc.  Its clear that a vocal part of the community disapproves of certain builds and they are sort of an inside joke with this group.  But I guess thats what happens when you hang out on a board for 10+ years that is dedicated to building arcade machines.

I agree a lot of questions are asked and answered politely - to be truthful after reading through the rom thread you mentioned - there was no conflicts that I could see.

As for me calling this a community of purists - in the build threads its the restores/replicas that garner the most attention.   Some will stop by with some advice for a mame cab but they are largely ignored.

[leapinlew]

I agree a lot of questions are asked and answered politely - to be truthful after reading through the rom thread you mentioned - there was no conflicts that I could see.

That thread was cleaned up after the blow up. it basically degenerated into a fight between newer members and established members?

As for me calling this a community of purists - in the build threads its the restores/replicas that garner the most attention.   Some will stop by with some advice for a mame cab but they are largely ignored.

So, is the snobby behavior coming out of the restore/replicas portion? While I don't frequent there often, I would have to say that if I did, I would expect there to be a certain amount of perfectionism. I don't really know what to say about that except do you remember the first scene in Rock Star where they were fighting about who was the most authentic Steel Dragon look-alike? LoL, that's what I would expect in any replica/restore topic anywhere online, in any category.

As for people asking for advice on mame and then ignored, unless I'm misunderstanding I have always seen the BYOAC as an extremely helpful community and I do not see many requests being ignored.

[yotsuya]

This thread has outlived its usefulness.

[Ginsu Victim]

If I hadn't discovered this site, I was going to use this as my first "cabinet"

[DrakeTungsten]

to be truthful after reading through the rom thread you mentioned - there was no conflicts that I could see.

Well of course not. It was a straw man. Nobody claimed every thread here is plagued with ridicule and such. But Lew found a harmless thread and for some reason held it up as an example of a kerfuffle. If even asking a question in which possible answers may differ from your answer qualifies as a kerfuffle, I think that tells us more about the thickness of Lew's skin than anything else.

Edit: Lew posted while I was posting, saying that all of the bad behavior had been scrubbed from the thread. I think he's confusing two threads, but even if he's correct, my point still stands: Why hold it up as an example of how well certain people conduct themselves when you believe all of the bad behavior has been deleted?

[leapinlew]

You're right, I was confusing 2 threads, but they were close enough to the same topic - and besides, I didn't think anyone would actually go looking to read it. You can see it here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,149514.40.html

Tone in the written word is often left up to the reader, and I'm sure some of the issues that crop up from time to time are the result of a misread.

This is a live and let live, let bygones by bygones kind of place. I already forgot you were the "circle jerk" comment guy until I had to search for the thread.
 

[dmckean]

This thread has outlived its usefulness.

+1

[danny_galaga]

I keep seeing this ad on Craig's list, and bafflingly, it hasn't sold despite being on there for months.
I'm quite surprised, as it plays over 1,000 games, promises endless fun, and even has a blacklight!
A steal at $990

https://newjersey.craigslist.org/vgm/5518835373.html

[Malenko]

This thread has outlived its usefulness.

agreed. Gold stars and granola bars for everyone!

[CheffoJeffo]

On the general cool scale, we're about one step up from My Little Pony fans

 

By which I mean this is tremendously funny, rings true to a grain and is mean and disparaging.

What was your objection again?

 

[Token]

Both sides make some good points every time this discussion comes up. But nobody ever changes their minds.