What is the most IDEAL computer build for MAME?

[SpatzST]

Important info: Hyperspin/mame games mostly, potentially other consoles but mainly vintage gaming (genesis, nes, snes, etc)

I recently learned that emulators mostly use 1-2 cores, so is there any reason to get a quad core processor?

So my next question is, are there any limitations as far as ram, will I ever utilize 4,8, 16gb?

Do emulators harness the power of graphics cards or do they only use processor power?

I am trying to figure out what to buy that is not overkill for a dedicated emulation machine.

Currently I am looking at an i5 (would i3 be ok?), probably older generation 3/4, 8gb ram, 500gb harddrive, nothing special for a motherboard. Just not sure if i need a graphics card or anything.

[n3wt0n]

From what I understand, for MAME the core clock speed is more important than the number of cores. I'm not familiar with the other emulators though. I am using the Intel Pentium G3258. It 3.2GHz and can be overclocked if you get the unlocked one and a capable board. I use 8gb of RAM because I had it but I think 4gb would work fine for MAME. I also use the onboard graphics. I have had no issues in MAME with slowdowns with this chip but haven't tried any other emulators. The only setback is that the onboard graphics won't work with the video snaps in Hyperspin unless you convert all the snaps to Flash. Not a big deal, they just eat up a lot more hard drive space because of this.

[jennifer]

  Its been my observation that a 2 core platform can run quite warm, 4 cores seems to remedy this fact....But as pointed out processor speeds would be key. (IMO)

[Jamesbeat]

How about a list of the emulators you want to run and an idea of how much you're prepared to spend?

Both are big factors in the type of advice you'll receive.

[SpatzST]

How about a list of the emulators you want to run and an idea of how much you're prepared to spend?

Both are big factors in the type of advice you'll receive.

Well, I said which emulators I'd like to run, at least what kinds of games.. MAME, NES, SNES, GENESIS.  As for price, just assume it doesn't matter.  The point of this thread is to build the most sense-making build for mame... eg. I don't need an i7 since it wont be utilized, i don't see 16gb ram because it won't be utilized, i don't need a gtx980Ti because emulators run off processor speed... etc.  I'm not concerned with specific parts, just what kind of specs i need to shoot for to achieve the best computer i'd need to run said emulators, not the best computer in general.

the advice i'm looking for it for instance...

dual core processor at 3.2ghz
4gb DDR3 ram @ whatever speed
500gb harddrive, 7200rpm
etc.

[nitrogen_widget]

well a dual core i3 may not run gauntlet legends on MAME.
So we need to know specifically what games.
If you aren't caring about 3d mame games with CHD's there is a good chance that just about any old dual core CPU will have you covered.

the old style console emulators you mentioned run just fine on a raspberry pi 2 or now 3.

[ark_ader]

Try a modded original Xbox with CoinOPS6.

That should set you back $10.

[dmckean]

Are you planning on building a cab?

[paigeoliver]

Post on facebook asking for a free computer.

Install the mame version that was current at the time that computer was manufactured.

Bam, ultimate Mame computer.

Almost everything anyone ever cared about was running full speed in Mame in 2003 on the hardware of that day. The list of exceptions is rather short and most of those have analog controls.

The real world difference between having Mame from 2003 and Mame from today is like the difference between having a collection of the 400 greatest games ever made and having a collection of the 405 greatest games ever made, except in this case the 400 game collection is free and the 405 game collection costs $900.

[P.H.U.]

Do emulators harness the power of graphics cards or do they only use processor power?

MAME is 100% CPU emulated.

I recently learned that emulators mostly use 1-2 cores, so is there any reason to get a quad core processor?

In most cases (games that closed out the 90's), this is overkill.

So my next question is, are there any limitations as far as ram, will I ever utilize 4,8, 16gb?

You can get away with 4, but HyperSpin slows you down further. Shoot for 8gb.

I am trying to figure out what to buy that is not overkill for a dedicated emulation machine.

Currently I am looking at an i5 (would i3 be ok?), probably older generation 3/4, 8gb ram, 500gb harddrive, nothing special for a motherboard. Just not sure if i need a graphics card or anything.

I run one my MAME cabs off of a Athlon X2 5600+ PC w/4GB ram. I have another few that run off of Intel Core2Duo PC's. I filter my HyperSpin lists so that I can only play 2p games that do not have more than the 6 buttons required for Streetfighter. No gun games. No driving games, etc. All of these systems run these games and HyperSpin just fine. But I am connected to CRT based cabs. I do not use HLSL. Once you start flipping on HLSL to have scanline emulation, you will need a beefy system. No way around that. Not sure what kind of cab you are building, but keep in mind that MAME is 100% CPU emulated. No need for a beefy video card.

All of what I have said is with the qualifier that you mentioned above:  "dedicated". I wouldn't dream of using these old PC's for any other purpose. I'd lose my mind. They'd be too slow. Also, they are running Windows XP 64-bit which is lighter than Windows7. But since Microsoft doesn't support it any longer, it isn't secure. I wouldn't dare surf the net with these PC's (I am an Ubuntu user much of the time these days anyway. Like to be secure). Each of my MAME PC's were either free or I bought them off eBay for $20 when I got impatient waiting for a friend to donate theirs.

So the answer to your question, What is the most IDEAL computer build for MAME?....Free or darn close to free is the answer.

[danny_galaga]

Post on facebook asking for a free computer.

Install the mame version that was current at the time that computer was manufactured.

Bam, ultimate Mame computer.

Almost everything anyone ever cared about was running full speed in Mame in 2003 on the hardware of that day. The list of exceptions is rather short and most of those have analog controls.

The real world difference between having Mame from 2003 and Mame from today is like the difference between having a collection of the 400 greatest games ever made and having a collection of the 405 greatest games ever made, except in this case the 400 game collection is free and the 405 game collection costs $900.

Amen to that. If you can live with that, then there is also the added bonus that if you copy your setup and keep it safe, then when that computer dies, the newer one you get to replace it will still run the same setup. In fact I'm essentially using the same set up from 2004 (",)

[smass]

Post on facebook asking for a free computer.

Install the mame version that was current at the time that computer was manufactured.

Bam, ultimate Mame computer.

Almost everything anyone ever cared about was running full speed in Mame in 2003 on the hardware of that day. The list of exceptions is rather short and most of those have analog controls.

The real world difference between having Mame from 2003 and Mame from today is like the difference between having a collection of the 400 greatest games ever made and having a collection of the 405 greatest games ever made, except in this case the 400 game collection is free and the 405 game collection costs $900.

Amen to that. If you can live with that, then there is also the added bonus that if you copy your setup and keep it safe, then when that computer dies, the newer one you get to replace it will still run the same setup. In fact I'm essentially using the same set up from 2004 (",)

Seconded.  I run MAME and a few consoles on a single core Pentium 4 2.6gzh with 1gb ram.  I can't run a newer frontend like gamex or hyperspin, but Maximus works just fine.  I am using a late 90s version of MAME and all the games I care about (hundreds) work just fine.  I will eventually "upgrade" as I tend to inherit friends and family's "old" computers.  But for now this ancient PC is just fine for my needs. Free to almost free Athlon and core2duo systems are literally a dime a dozen, and they would all be significant upgrades from my current MAME system.

[smass]

Try a modded original Xbox with CoinOPS6.

That should set you back $10.

I am keeping an eye out for an original xbox to try coinups out for an ultra cheap bartop build.  Strangely, I can't seem to find an original xbox on CL in my area.  So the dream of the $10 coinups machine is proving a bit elusive

Any tips?  A working xbox is about $50 on ebay.  Where are these $10 machines at?  Do I really need to start showing up at garage sales?  That would require actual face to face human interaction, not to mention time and gas...

[BadMouth]

the advice i'm looking for it for instance...

dual core processor at 3.2ghz
4gb DDR3 ram @ whatever speed
500gb harddrive, 7200rpm
etc.

MAME is not a commercial piece of software with minimum required specs on the box.

Again, it depends on what games you want to play.
If your answer is "Everything", then buy the fastest i5 you can afford (it still won't run "everything" as there are usually fully emulated games in MAME that even the top of the line processors can't run at full speed)
The extra cores will help out with overhead, some other emulators.  MAME is optimized for Intel processors.  I have an AMD in my cab from years ago, but if building today I wouldn't even entertain the thought.
Are you happy with nothing newer than Mortal Kombat 3 or do you want to play Tekken 3, Ridge Racer, & Cave shmups from the early 2000's?

Do you want to play Sega Naomi games like Crazy Taxi or Marvel Vs Capcom 2 on Demul emulator?
If so, you'll need a decent video card (and OS) that can handle Direct X 11.  For Nvidia, I'd recommend 60 series or better (660, 760, 780, etc)

If you want to play "everything", I'd recommend:

fastest i5 you can afford
4GB if using windows XP, 8GB if using Win7 or newer (XP doesn't support directX11) 64-bit OS or GTFO.
Nvidia 60 series or better (660, 760, 780, etc) I do not know anything about Radeon cards. 
500GB is enough if you only plan to have arcade, only working CHDs that you'll actually play and cartridge based consoles.
If you plan to run disc based consoles or Steam games, get a 2TB.
(It's still not enough for entire sets of disc based consoles, but most of them don't translate to an arcade cabinet anyway so it's best to pick and choose)

Again, you're dropping a lot of money to play 50-100 more games than you could play with a free computer out of a dumpster.
I enjoy the NAOMI shmups and the new PC fighting games, so it's worth it to me.
(although my cab is a bit outdated and just barely good enough to run them)

[General_Faliure]

My cab is currently running a core 2 duo 8400 (clocked @ 3600), 4 Gig ram and a geforce 9500.
It's running Linux (mint Xfce) and Mahcade frontend.
So far i haven't ran into limitations, it runs most things i throw at it, it will serve me for years to come.
My cab's first mainboard was an Athlon XP 2100 (@1700 Mhz), which worked fine for most Mame games , and Snes  and Daphne, not so much for newer stuff.
I started with a 160 Gig harddrive, i currently have a 128 Gig ssd and a 500 Gig harddrive, that's a lot faster.

[BadMouth]

The demands of MAME v.170 are so much higher than say MAME v.128 or v.146 that I feel like we should also state what build of MAME is being used when stating our PC specs.

The Cave shmups run full speed on my cab on MAME version 1.42 (7b interim?), but choke hard on version 1.70
Some early 80's games with discrete sound won't even run full speed if HLSL prescale is used

It's a convoluted moving landscape with people answering from different perspectives based on the demands of the version of MAME when their cab was built and which games they consider important. 

(Which is why people keep asking you what games you want to play.)

[jennifer]

       More power and faster speeds offer more choices, " What games will you play?" seems a bit rhetorical in concept, as nobody can ever really know what the future holds, But what does make sense, is yesterdays awesome (the i5 for example) has fallen in price to almost foolish not to get one levels.... If your waiting to dig one out of a C/list dumpster, you get what you pay for.

[vwalbridge]

The Raspberry Pi is best. 

P.S. - paigeoliver's ears are burning!

[yotsuya]

The Raspberry Pi is best. 

You forgot to add "...for me to poop on!"

[jdbailey1206]

The Raspberry Pi is best. 

You forgot to add "...for me to poop on!"

Haha!  Team Coco.

[SpatzST]

Thanks for the replies, I am getting a better idea of what I need to support the games in looking to play. So as for a games list, let me add such titles as tekken 3, the 3d rendered mortal kombat style games, virtua fighter, etc.  I forgot about Dreamcast emulation since I surely want to play mvc2.  I built a CP that sits on a pedestal which currently runs off my 2011 macbook pro (i7, 8gb?, some discrete mobile gfx card) and that runs everything just fine.  But I need to use my laptop and it's annoying to constantly swap it in and out just FYI play arcade.

So perhaps I can build something similar, a lower end gfx card for demul should be OK if my mac can run it on a mobile version.

Thanks for the info everyone

Oh also I'm running mame .153 but I was going to update everything once I finally got a new system. Is this a good idea?

[Jamesbeat]

Here's a real world example for you: I found the Tekken 4 has just a tiny hint of choppiness on my current setup, which is an Intel 8400 @3Ghz with 2Gb of ram, onboard graphics and Windows 7 64 bit.
I intend to upgrade the memory asap, I only got the pc very recently.

With a bit more memory and perhaps a mild overclock, I would expect that tiny amount of choppiness to disappear.

[General_Faliure]

3.6 Ghz is an easy overclock for a C2d 8400, mine is running it since a week after i built it, some 6 years ago.

[Jamesbeat]

3.6 Ghz is an easy overclock for a C2d 8400, mine is running it since a week after i built it, some 6 years ago.

Interesting. Are you using an upgraded heatsink/cooling system?

[General_Faliure]

Yes, i have a Cooler Master tower cooler, don't know exactly what type.
One of the cheapest.
This mainboard started as my main / gaming system, after a few years i built it into my cab.

[ark_ader]

Try a modded original Xbox with CoinOPS6.

That should set you back $10.

I am keeping an eye out for an original xbox to try coinups out for an ultra cheap bartop build.  Strangely, I can't seem to find an original xbox on CL in my area.  So the dream of the $10 coinups machine is proving a bit elusive

Any tips?  A working xbox is about $50 on ebay.  Where are these $10 machines at?  Do I really need to start showing up at garage sales?  That would require actual face to face human interaction, not to mention time and gas...

I always pick them up at goodwill or thrift stores for 10 bucks, most of them are perfectly working but there is no way for the staff to test them, thus 10 bucks.  BTW they are perfect for bartop builds.

[paigeoliver]

The reason you don't want to go the Xbox route is that it is significantly worse than a garbage picked computer and you will be starting from scratch when it craps out 5 years from now and Xboxs are no longer available for $10.

[Jamesbeat]

Another good reason is that hacking an Xbox controller is an absolute pain in the rear end.
I have hacked a couple of controllers, and the Xbox one was by far the most annoying.

Unless of course there is some way of using an ipac or something, in which case this is moot. I haven't fooled around with an Xbox for a long time, so I'm out of the loop.

[dmckean]

There's XBOX adapters for the I-PAC, so that's not a big deal. I messed around with a modded XBOX and CoinOPS a long, long time ago. At the time I liked it because you could easily get a great image through the component outputs to a TV. But like paigeoliver, today it's cheaper/easier just to buy an old PC.

[paigeoliver]

There's XBOX adapters for the I-PAC, so that's not a big deal. I messed around with a modded XBOX and CoinOPS a long, long time ago. At the time I liked it because you could easily get a great image through the component outputs to a TV. But like paigeoliver, today it's cheaper/easier just to buy an old PC.

There is only one case in which I would suggest using an Xbox and that is if you have a 25-27" conversion style cabinet with no monitor in it, since you can drop a nearly free CRT TV set in and have it look, well, like an Xbox hooked up to a crt tv, which is generally better than a computer hooked up to a crt tv.

[cnsf]

Thanks for the replies, I am getting a better idea of what I need to support the games in looking to play. So as for a games list, let me add such titles as tekken 3, the 3d rendered mortal kombat style games, virtua fighter, etc. 
Oh also I'm running mame .153 but I was going to update everything once I finally got a new system. Is this a good idea?

I just went through the same thought process as you.   I decided a Skylake Core i3 wasn't much more than other processors - DDR3 and DDR4 are similar in price, and cheap now, and the i3 has its own graphics.

I got an ASRock H170 Pro4S mobo, Core i3 Skylake 6100, and 16GB DDR4.  It runs Hyperspin REALLY well and pretty much every game I play is smoother. (under $300 in total at NewEgg).

With Intel graphics, you have to turn off Adobe Flash hardware acceleration, otherwise Hyperspin video gets wonky.

Using the Intel graphics saved a LOT of money on the video card and enabled me to get better processing hardware for the same budget.

[SpatzST]

Thanks for the replies, I am getting a better idea of what I need to support the games in looking to play. So as for a games list, let me add such titles as tekken 3, the 3d rendered mortal kombat style games, virtua fighter, etc. 
Oh also I'm running mame .153 but I was going to update everything once I finally got a new system. Is this a good idea?

I just went through the same thought process as you.   I decided a Skylake Core i3 wasn't much more than other processors - DDR3 and DDR4 are similar in price, and cheap now, and the i3 has its own graphics.

I got an ASRock H170 Pro4S mobo, Core i3 Skylake 6100, and 16GB DDR4.  It runs Hyperspin REALLY well and pretty much every game I play is smoother. (under $300 in total at NewEgg).

With Intel graphics, you have to turn off Adobe Flash hardware acceleration, otherwise Hyperspin video gets wonky.

Using the Intel graphics saved a LOT of money on the video card and enabled me to get better processing hardware for the same budget.

wow thank you for this reply.  I always build gaming rigs so I am super jaded as to what is considered an acceptable PC these days for non-hardcore gaming lol.

I was wondering if an i3 would run hyperspin well w/o a graphics card as someone in this thread mentioned that they upgraded to a quad core to clear some issues with HS.  If you have a moment, can you try running Demul and tell me how that works? assuming you have some demul roms   specifically marvel vs capcom 2.  I don't know if you were following this thread but, I just upgraded my main PC to a 6700K and I was going to use my old i7-3770K to run mame but decided its way overkill, found out these chips still sell USED for $250 on ebay!! So I am selling my i7 and going to build a mini PC but I wasn't sure an i3 would cut it. 

thanks

[haynor666]

From what I understand, for MAME the core clock speed is more important than the number of cores. I'm not familiar with the other emulators though. I am using the Intel Pentium G3258. It 3.2GHz and can be overclocked if you get the unlocked one and a capable board. I use 8gb of RAM because I had it but I think 4gb would work fine for MAME. I also use the onboard graphics. I have had no issues in MAME with slowdowns with this chip but haven't tried any other emulators. The only setback is that the onboard graphics won't work with the video snaps in Hyperspin unless you convert all the snaps to Flash. Not a big deal, they just eat up a lot more hard drive space because of this.

I still think it's the best option for mame as G3258 clocked to 4,0 or more can handle nicely cv1k (in 99 %) and even some 3D games. The only what mame cares is power of one single core. Right now mame does not have mt option so it's impossible to utilize power of remaining cores.

The only problem might be slow graphics card embedded with G3258. I don't know how Hyperspin might behave on such configuration but in theory even Core2Duo should be fine. Here You might get Your answer - http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/topic/286-hyperspin-requirements-explained/

[Haze]

The only what mame cares is power of one single core. Right now mame does not have mt option so it's impossible to utilize power of remaining cores.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

-mt went away, yes, all -mt ever did was offload the final bitmap copy (a very simple operation that on a well configured system took about 0.05% of the total emulation time) to another CPU, which helped in cases on linux where terrible GPU drivers stalled the CPU for ages during the copy operation.  There was never good reason to have it turned on in Windows, and It also introduced a bunch of bugs.

Plenty of drivers are natively threaded, cv1k which you point out still runs threaded, cool riders is threaded, every voodoo game is threaded, namcos22 is threaded etc. etc.  those have actual code in the drivers to offload work to the additional CPUs and will benefit from that.

The G3258 overclocked to 4.5ghz is a decent CPU for 2D stuff, yes, for non-threaded stuff in MAME it comes in at ~2 %- ~10% slower than the much more expensive i7-6700K (also at ~4.5ghz)

For the threaded drivers you're dealing with a ~12% - ~35% performance loss (gauntletl suffers the most, 35% slower on the dual core G3258 vs the i7-6700K)

Please stop spreading the myth that MAME can't use more than 1 core, or even more than 2 cores, some drivers are quite happy to use 4 and benefit from that.


Seriously this place is like living in some kind of timewarp, giving out information that was only relevant maybe 15 years ago...

[BadMouth]

Haze, what's the plan for MAME utilizing video cards more in the future?

[Haze]

the theory is that it will use a software renderer coded to run on the GPU, utilizing all the cores of the GPU while still providing a pixel perfect output still fully under our control.

the guy who did the Golden Tee Fore! emulation did say he was working on a proof of concept for that (assuming he wasn't joking)

it might require DirectX 11 / 12 level tech to do so mind you.

[SpatzST]

the theory is that it will use a software renderer coded to run on the GPU, utilizing all the cores of the GPU while still providing a pixel perfect output still fully under our control.

the guy who did the Golden Tee Fore! emulation did say he was working on a proof of concept for that (assuming he wasn't joking)

it might require DirectX 11 / 12 level tech to do so mind you.

you seem to know a lot about this stuff...

do I want to keep my i7 @ 3.5ghz, or should I buy an i3 at 3.9ghz?

Edit: Forget it, I am racking my brain over this stuff and what size motherboard to buy and new cases, fans, do i need new ram? etc.. I'm spending hours deciding between different options and how much it will cost, where I have to order from.. I'm done lol.  I'm just gonna keep my i7, original motherboard, ram, I have an extra atx tower with power supply.. I'm going to get a fan and harddrive and call it day.

Thanks for the help, all.

[haynor666]

The only what mame cares is power of one single core. Right now mame does not have mt option so it's impossible to utilize power of remaining cores.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

-mt went away, yes, all -mt ever did was offload the final bitmap copy (a very simple operation that on a well configured system took about 0.05% of the total emulation time) to another CPU, which helped in cases on linux where terrible GPU drivers stalled the CPU for ages during the copy operation.  There was never good reason to have it turned on in Windows, and It also introduced a bunch of bugs.

Plenty of drivers are natively threaded, cv1k which you point out still runs threaded, cool riders is threaded, every voodoo game is threaded, namcos22 is threaded etc. etc.  those have actual code in the drivers to offload work to the additional CPUs and will benefit from that.

The G3258 overclocked to 4.5ghz is a decent CPU for 2D stuff, yes, for non-threaded stuff in MAME it comes in at ~2 %- ~10% slower than the much more expensive i7-6700K (also at ~4.5ghz)

For the threaded drivers you're dealing with a ~12% - ~35% performance loss (gauntletl suffers the most, 35% slower on the dual core G3258 vs the i7-6700K)

Please stop spreading the myth that MAME can't use more than 1 core, or even more than 2 cores, some drivers are quite happy to use 4 and benefit from that.


Seriously this place is like living in some kind of timewarp, giving out information that was only relevant maybe 15 years ago...

I didn't know that some drivers already uses more than one thread. Not sure even it's mentioned anywhere about this and I'm not the first person that spread such statement.

That probably explains why some 3D games drivers does not work correctly with groovymame syncrefresh option (sudden speed change during game around 200% then back to 100%, not a fault of PC as those games run unthrottled runs much more than 100%).

[TopJimmyCooks]

Haze is/was a mamedev and knows of what he speaks. 

[pbj]

Paige and Ark still arguing about Xbox.  Xbox is great if you're content with playing older arcade games.  No USB issues, either, which is nice on a 4 player setup.  The Kade encoders and component -> HDMI adapters nullify any arguments about the system being difficult to use.  Once you flash the thing it's just a matter of downloading CoinOps and the software is set.  No BS with safe shutdowns or corrupted data, either.

I wouldn't bother with a PC unless it could play Gauntlet Legends 100%.  That and there's getting to be enough 'retro inspired' newer PC games out there that I want to play on my cabinet that I'm considering it....