ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..

[JoeB]

I recently rebuild my Arcade PC with Windows 7 x64 on a 250GB SSD drive (tired of losing brand new Western Digital SATA drives!).  I migrated from Windows XP x64 and so far I love it.  I've got everything working great on my PC LCD screen (Hyperspin, RocketLauncher, GroovyMAME 0.171).

I'm ready to install the Windows 7 drivers and plug in the 29" Arcade monitor following the guide.  But I did run into a small issue and I need help with.

My ATI 4350 card is one of those that has DVI, HDMI and VGA port (VGA is on a ribbon that plugs into card PCB).  I currently use the DVI port via DVI to VGA adapter (it's how it worked with Arcade monitor/JPAC before).  The problem is that I'm missing the VGA plug/ribbon on video card for LCD/Monitor swaps!! Not sure why I removed it at some point.

I was wondering.  Either:

1) Can someone share a pinout of the ATI PCB to VGA port
2) Can I install the drivers using LCD monitor, and then somehow switch resolution, shutdown, plug Arcade Monitor, reboot and have it work?

This video card already has Atom-15 installed.  So I don't see the BIOS screen on boot up on my LCD monitor. 

[Calamity]

Not sure why I removed it at some point.

You guys have an unlimited creativity when it comes to producing new and unexpected edge cases 

You could indeed do the whole process with your LCD. The problem is the new drivers force monitor detection on both outputs, so chances are your desktop might end up on the wrong output during the process, and you'll be unable to bring it back. I didn't count with the possibility of an user physically removing the ribbon cable.

Just try it and tell us how it goes, it will help others.

In the worst case you could fix things with a remote desktop app.

[JoeB]

I got the driver to finally install, and reboot in "test" mode with LCD still connected to it.  But the only way I can get VMMaker to run is on the real LCD screen, when you try to get VMMaker to run on remote desktop, it displays the RMD video adapter as the only one it found, so it won't be able to "write to registry".

Somehow, going back and forth, I finally got VMMaker to run, and rebooted system.  But now system hangs on Windows loading screen (bad device driver?).

I ended uninstalling everything and going back to the drawing board.  I might just have to either:

- Source another 4350
- Purchase a newer Radeon card
- Purchase ArcadeVGA and use these drivers instead of Andy's

I do have a couple of questions though. 

1) If I were to purchase a new video card replacement, which is the best one to get for Windows 7 X64 support?
2) Will the "Test mode" always display in the bottom right with this driver?

Suggestion:

- Somehow during install, I got a missing DLL error.  It was corrected by downloading the Distributed C++ 2010 package from Microsoft.  (should have wrote down the name of the DLL)

[Calamity]

Are you using CRT Emudriver 2.0?

[JoeB]

No. The older one / none beta.

[kortina]

I got myself a HD5450 for about $20. (AUS)

The interlaced pic is better, and the EDID detection in the new drivers works well.

It is certainly worth the cash. eBay is your friend.

[JoeB]

Success!!

I installed version 2.0 beta and followed the instructions.  Before I rebooted, I set the resolution of display 1 to 640x480 60i (just incase).  The LCD went black.  I pressed the left cursor and pressed enter.  I then pressed the power button (to auto shutdown).  Moved everything into the Arcade Machine, powered on.. and I got good screen!

I then finished the setup on 1 screen!

Now time to learned about these super resolutions.

[JoeB]

I'll try to minimize the number of threads I open here, hope no one minds me continue to post "issues" as I run into them.

Problem: GM requires Administrator rights to function correctly
Solution:
- Disable UAC
- right click on mame64.exe and make sure "execute as administrator" is set

Problem: HyperSpin runs REALLY REALLY SLOW  .. (it was instant on my LCD monitor)
Solution: ??

Problem: .mp4 videos in Hyperspin are now all green
solution: ??

I did download Firefox, found a flash site, and disabled hardware acceleration on flash.  Didn't change a bit.  Any other options?

Broken Hyperspin is unfortunately a deal breaker for me (As this PC is hidden inside an arcade machine).  I must say, I give Calamity big koodo's for getting it to work in Windows 7.  Microsoft has done quite an act to not allow people to mod drivers and access hardware directly, especially in x64.  This is quite amazing. 

[P.H.U.]

No HLSL enabled right?

[JoeB]

No HLSL enabled right?

Sorry .. don't know what that is.

mp4 files are green in HyperSpin, black in Windows Media Player.  YouTube videos are all black in the web browser as well.

[dmckean]

Did you disable hardware acceleration for flash in IE?

[P.H.U.]

No HLSL enabled right?

Sorry .. don't know what that is.

mp4 files are green in HyperSpin, black in Windows Media Player.  YouTube videos are all black in the web browser as well.

Then that is a no. Sounds like you didn't disable hardware acceleration correctly. Try it in IE, rather than Firefox.

[JoeB]

Did you disable hardware acceleration for flash in IE?

Any suggesting a on how to do it? YouTube is now html5. Right click on video just brings custom YouTube controls. Also, why would this effect playing videos in windows media player?

I'm running Windows 7 x64 with all up to date service patches installed.

[Calamity]

Did you start with a fresh Windows 7 install before installing 2.0, or had old CRT Emudriver been already installed in the system.

I'm asking this because I've confirmed dxva acceleration works fine with my HD 5450 and this version of the drivers.

But I haven't confirmed this with a pre-HD 5000.

The green screen issue was well known with the previous drivers and I'm almost sure it came as a consequence of driver patching.

This is why it's so confusing that it works for HD 5000+ here, even with patched 2.0 drivers. Maybe it's because 12.8 is older than 13 which was the base for CRT Emudriver 1.2? Maybe only legacy cards are affected?

BTW, the slowness on HS is due to Aero, just disable it.

[JoeB]

Before I installed CRT 2.0 drivers, I used Microsoft fixit tool to disable test mode. I then used ATI's cleanup tool to remove drivers / clean registry.

After a few reboots, I put the card back in the PC (instead of using on-board VGA) and Windows detected it and installed the Microsoft driver. I then followed the thread on how to upgrade this driver to yours.

I'm using an ATI 4350 card.

Do you suggest I get another ATI card? 5000 series?

[Calamity]

I then used ATI's cleanup tool to remove drivers / clean registry.

That tool does nothing unfortunately. If you have an spare hard drive consider trying a fresh Windows 7 installation, I know this is time consuming but it'd help to check once and for all what's the source of the green screen issue.

Do you suggest I get another ATI card? 5000 series?

Definitely, or a 6000 series even better. The HD 4000 are not really full Win 7-compliant, even if they work.

[JoeB]

Ok. I'll look into getting a 6000 series video card. Suggesting on a particular one? Or how to cleanly uninstall the driver?

I'm not crazy about reinstalling Windows 7. Took me many nights to get this installed cleanly on my new SSD drive.

[Calamity]

With the HD 6000 you might be in the same situation unless you start from a fresh Windows 7 install, I'm afraid. I'm not sure however, it's only that when this has worked for me with the HD 5450, it was with a fresh Windows 7 install.

[JoeB]

With the HD 6000 you might be in the same situation unless you start from a fresh Windows 7 install, I'm afraid. I'm not sure however, it's only that when this has worked for me with the HD 5450, it was with a fresh Windows 7 install.

Let me ask a different question.  Are you aware of anyone using the latest CRT 2.0 beta drivers with Windows 7 x64, using a 4350 video card, and has Hardware Acceleration working correctly? or is this an "untested combination".  Because as far as I can tell, the old 1.x drivers do not support hardware acceleration on the 4350 .. is this correct?

Also, does ATOM-15 work on 6000 series video cards?

[Calamity]

Let me ask a different question.  Are you aware of anyone using the latest CRT 2.0 beta drivers with Windows 7 x64, using a 4350 video card, and has Hardware Acceleration working correctly? or is this an "untested combination".

No, I don't know of anyone. Rather than untested, let's say it's poorly reported.

Because as far as I can tell, the old 1.x drivers do not support hardware acceleration on the 4350 .. is this correct?

Correct.

Also, does ATOM-15 work on 6000 series video cards?

Yes.

[JoeB]

OK. Purchased a brand new Asus silent 6450 from a local computer store.

Will try it out tonight.

[Calamity]

Great. Remind that for the HD 6450 you need to use the VGA output, the DVI is digital only.

[JoeB]

This is really frustrating.. 

- uninstalled drivers, reset back to non-test mode
- put 6450 card into PC

Windows 7 x64 detected it as "Generic VGA card".  Windows Media Player still shows black screen on MP4.

- Went to AMD web site.  Downloaded latest official driver for it (AMD-Catalyst-15.7.1-Without-DOTNet45-Win7-64bit).  Installed driver.

Windows Media Player plays mp4 files perfectly.

- Installed crt_emudriver_&_tools_2.0_beta_8_12.6_W.7.8.10-64 on top of this.  Rebooted just fine.  Shows the high res on my LCD screen.

Windows media player back to black screen, Hyperspin green screen.  Flash (using latest flash driver) plays fine in  web browser with / without hardware acceleration.

So I didn't even bother with VMMaker.  Standard LCD screen doesn't even work in standard 1024x768 resolution.  So If I spend the next 6 hours reinstalling windows 7, redownloading the 235 security patches, what are the changes that magically it's going to start working?? 

[Calamity]

So If I spend the next 6 hours reinstalling windows 7, redownloading the 235 security patches, what are the changes that magically it's going to start working?? 

I suspect the presence of newer versions of leftover libraries installed by Catalyst is what breaks video acceleration for CRT Emudriver. You can't remove them unless you format the hard drive.

A full Windows 7 reinstall, format included takes 15-20 mins on my old P4, conventional HDD. Leave security updates for a later moment.

[JoeB]

UPDATE:

- Formatted C:
- Install Windows 7 x64 SP1 professional
- Verified windows only saw "Generic display driver" when 6450 is plugged in
  --> Windows media player can play mp4 files

- Ran the crt_emudriver_&_tools_2.0_beta_8_12.6_W.7.8.10-64 setup program
- Told me it needs to go into TEST mode and rebooted
- Ran setup again - updated Generic driver to "AMD Radeon HD 7400 Series CRT Emudriver - WDDM V1.20.  Required a reboot
- Came back from reboot
  --> Windows media player can not play mp4 files - black screen

So .. the driver does not work with the 6450 (not sure why it's reporting it as 7400)

The card is:  Asus EAH6450 SILENT/DI/1Gd3(LP)

**sigh**

[JoeB]

As per:  http://www.driveridentifier.com/scan/asus-r5-230-series/driver-detail/1E13559D4BB1448FB8C110349F93A10C/2350143/d96da758fbc4391444a780d9db174d39/614031754/PCI%5CVEN_1002%26DEV_6779

ASUS EAH6450   PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_677B&SUBSYS_30211043

In the driver properties, I see the following under "hardware Ids":

PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_677B&SUBSYS_30211043&REV_00
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_677B&SUBSYS_30211043
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_677B&CC_030000
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_677B&CC_0300

This is the video card I purchased.  I opened the CD that came with it, and found the Windows 7 x64 INF file (C0186421.inf).  In it I found:

...
"%AMD677B.1%" = ati2mtag_NI, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_677B&SUBSYS_30211043
...
AMD677B.1 = "ASUS EAH6450"

Based on the "ati2mtag_NI" does that mean that the above will just fix the driver name, but the actual driver used will still be the correct one and still not work?

[JoeB]

For the heck of it, I pulled the 6450 and put in the 4350.  Windows installed the new driver and rebooted.  It now displays "ATI Radeon HD 4300/4500 Series CRT emudriver - WDDM v1.1).  Windows media player can't play mp4, hyperspin still can't play them either.

I don't have flash installed, but there is flash inside of Chrome.  When I go to a web site with flash, it actually plays fine (on both) with or without hardware acceleration turned on/off (some kind of hack by Google?)

I'm stuck.

[Calamity]

Ok let's do something, please upload one of your problematic mp4 somewhere, I'm going to test it here and report back.

Update: I installed Windows 7 from scratch, now with an Asus HD 6450 Silent, installed CRT Emudriver 2.0. I've tested some mp4s and they all play fine on Windows Media Player. Also tested HS (very old version) and videos play fine.

[JoeB]

The reason why MP4 file support is important is because the new hyperspin (1.4) supports MP4 videos instead of flash FLV videos. EmuMovies moved all their videos to MP4. I'm just testing one of their standard MP4 videos. I'll try playing something that came out of my iPhone or I converted myself.

Also. I only installed the driver. I'm using your driver on a regular LCD screen set to 1024x768. I did not enable and CRT resolutions. I assume this should be fine.

Is there a reason why the same MP4 and hyperspin will work with generic video driver but not CRT 2.0?

I'll install the Asus oem driver. See if it starts working. Then do a fresh install (again). Willing to try other combinations.

test mp4 file:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/kkged18n50vmb3r/3wonders.mp4?dl=0

works great in VLC player on system. Click download button on top right.

[big10p]

To get videos to work, I had to install a codec pack - think I used K-lite. And as Calamity said, I also disabled Aero. I use MaLa though, so don't know if it'll fix things for HS.

[JoeB]

To get videos to work, I had to install a codec pack - think I used K-lite. And as Calamity said, I also disabled Aero. I use MaLa though, so don't know if it'll fix things for HS.

When I did that it started working. That codec disables hardware acceleration and uses software. Doesn't help with HS. Personally, I'm a huge fan of HW acceleration. It's the only reason your smartphone or set top box can play HDTV h264 video. Their CPU doesn't have enough power. What about DX games? Will they work with CRT 2.0 drivers?

I think the root cause is the driver. There's something in them that turns off DX hardware acceleration which doesn't happen with Unmodified drivers standard Windows driver. I tried with 2 different video cards and same problem.

I wonder if anyone else (except Calamity) got hw acceleration to work with 2.0?

[JoeB]

I got an idea.  Why don't we use a tool to compare the DXVA settings and compare? 

http://bluesky23.yukishigure.com/en/DXVAChecker.html

It generates a lot of information.  Anyone care to focus on a specific line / test we can use to verify?

Here's my main window:

[lettuce]

Calamity, would would recommend is the best GPU to get? 5 or 6 series and for what reason?

[JoeB]

Calamity, would would recommend is the best GPU to get? 5 or 6 series and for what reason?

Based on my reading, I thing the 6 series is best, because you can run groovymame in non-administrative mode and it will switch res on you.  For lower cards, you need command prompt in admin mode / reduce security of system if you want it automated.

[JoeB]

Uninstalled CRT 2.0, and installed the drivers from Asus.  DXVA checker now reports:

ASUS EAH6450 (Caicos Pro Refresh)
MPEG2_VLD: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD
MPEG2_IDCT: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD
MPEG2_A: DXVA1, SD / HD / FHD
MPEG2_C: DXVA1, SD / HD / FHD
H264_VLD_NoFGT: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD
H264_VLD_NoFGT_Flash: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD
6719B6FB-5CAD-4ACB-B00A-F3BFDEC38727: DXVA2
VC1_VLD: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD
CA15D19A-2B48-43D6-979E-7A6E9C802FF8: DXVA2
MPEG4pt2_VLD_AdvSimple_Avivo: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD
MPEG4pt2_VLD_AdvSimple_NoGMC: DXVA2, SD / HD / FHD

Note the last 2 lines.  They are new.  All MP4 videos play fine. 

Also, I know why "generic video adapter" works as well.  According to DXVA Checker and DXDIAG, there is no hardware acceleration available.  All empty.  All software. 

Does all this help??

[Calamity]

Hi JoeB,

I won't be able to test this again until monday. I'm wondering if all this time it's been working for me just because it was decoding by software.

Anyway, modded drivers preventing dxva from working is an old known issue, that's why you've seen all those tips about disabling hardware acceleration, etc. This is not a bug, this is by design, AMD drivers do this when they detect they've been patched as an anti-copy mechanism for copyright protected media.

It's only that with CRT Emudriver 2.0 I've never experienced the green screen, which was definitely there with 1.2, so I thought somehow this version might be bypassing the problem.

I'll see how I can download HS 1.4 in order to test. Over the years I've grown an increasing hate to this software for all its issues that directly or indirectly end up bouncing back on me.

[JoeB]

Forget HS. Let's see if you can get windows media player to play MP4 in hardware. Hyperspin just calls the same routines.

I was wondering if you can also post the output from your DXVA checker after fresh install. Should be identical to mine.

[JoeB]

SUCCESS!!! Calamity.. feel free to add this to the docs .. I think this will benefit A LOT of people.  I've spend a TON of time to finally figure this out, hopefully this helps a bit ... (I'm still interested to see if a fresh install of the drivers has DXVA working for you).

---------------------------------------------------------------------

DirectX Video Acceleration (DXVA) in Windows 7+ might be turned off with these modified ATI drivers; this seems to trigger a security check that ATI left behind.  This will effect most hardware accelerated video playback in common windows applications.  This includes black screen when playing mp4 files in Windows Media Player, or green screen mp4 playback in HyperSpin 1.4.

To fix this, you need to disable DXVA.  Here's how you can do it:

1) Download directx 9.0c control panel from http://www.majorgeeks.com/Microsoft_DirectX_Control_Panel_d4017.html

2)  Extract and run "directx.cpl" as administrator

3) Goto Direct3D and DirectDraw tabs and uncheck "Allow hardware acceleration "

4) Verify DXVA is disabled by executing "dxdiag" from start menu, click the "Display" tab and verify DirectDraw and Direct3D acceleration are disabled

mp4 playback will now work correctly in Windows Media Player and HyperSpin.

[kortina]

Don't forget that UAC still might get you


Because you are using Hyperspin, it is going to want to launch GroovyMAME (and other apps).

You are best to disable UAC completely, as when Hyperspin calls GroovyMAME it is unlikely that GroovyMAME will start with Admin rights.
This will happen even when you start Hyperspin with Admin rights!


(This is certainly the behaviour of Win8 onwards, cant remember if it applies to Win7)

[Calamity]

Hi JoeB,

I'm happy you found a solution. However, disabling D3D hardware acceleration globally sounds like could affect actual games performance.

I've run dxvachecker from fresh W7 install after installing CRT Emudriver 2.0 and I get the exact same results as you.

The interesting part is, if I play your mp4 file in WMP I get a black screen, same as you. However if I play any mp4 file recorded with my phone, it plays perfectly fine

 I've checked the codec in both videos and it's the same:

video codec: H264 - MPEG-4 AVC (part10)(avc1)
audio codec: MPEG AAC Audio (mp4a)

Only difference I can see is my phone records at 720x480, 29.57 Hz / 44100 Hz while your video is 640x480, 59.94 Hz / 48000 Hz.

So unless I'm missing something, dxva seems to be working but not for all videos?