ROWE CD100-E Jukebox

[mrtweaver]

Ok i am new here so this might have been covered before but for the life of me i can not seem to locate. So i hope i dont offend by asking the following bits of information.

I recently acquired a CD100-E, it does not work, so i am working on it. I went to ebay and purchased what is said to be a manual for it. And for the most part the manual is absolutlely correct. When it comes to the power board, it is laid out and part number exactly as listed, when it comes to the CCC the part numbers match the number is 40832220, However the one that does not match is the MCC. The number i have on my MCC box is 61086201 but the number in the manual i purchased is 61030603 so when it comes to diagnosing the MCC i can not do it. So now that i have that out of the way here is my list of questions.

I am certain there are others out there that have this jukebox so if you happen to have a manual could you tell me, which is the proper part number that i should have for my MCC?

If it is suppose to be the part number i have then i can only assume that either i have an older book or a faulty book.

Can someone recommend where i can get a proper book or at least the section pertaining to the MCC. I am looking for the pinouts so i know what the various plugs and pins do. Of course a schematic would be good as well but figure first start with the externals and trace the various IO to the MCC.

Now the final question I was looking at the prints for the CCC there is a max232 chip near the one plug and the pinouts are ground, rx, tx, cts, and rts. Is it possible to connect to this via a rs232 port on a computer to diagnose things using like hyperterminal or do you need special rowe software to communicate with this port?

[jdemarti]

It appears the your CD100 E may have been upgraded to a CDM12 player at some point. But your book shows the original CDM4.  Can you describe the problem you are having?  What are the symptoms?

[mrtweaver]

Ok the problem i know has something to do with the MCC. When i turn the juke on the power lights on power supply light up and the voltages are as they should be. The 5 v light light up on the CCC the system error light comes on for a second or so then blinks and goes off, the rowelink light is flashing. The 5 v light lights up on the MCC but no other lights light on the MCC, so it does not home does not load does not play. So i am thinking the issue is either the MCC or some mechanizm attached to the MCC being as no other lights light on it. But after like a min or so the system error light on the CCC comes back on and stays on. Hope i am using the correct terms here.

And if you dont mind my asking what is difference between CD100e and CDM12?

I am not to familiar with jukeboxes right now, still learning.

But at one place there was mention of talking to the CCC via rs232 which i assumed meant using the pins on the CCC but am unfamiliar to know if i need special software or if i can just use like hyperterminal. THought if i posted here someone might have information pertaining to doing such a thing.

Also thought maybe someone could tell me if this CCC and MCC should work together or what?

And if there was a good recommended place where i can just get the pinouts of the MCC i have, if it will indeed work with the CCC.

[jdemarti]

The CDM12 replaced the CDM4 player.  Most CD100Es I've seen had the CDM12 player in it, but it is likely they originally came with CDM4s installed.  You may need to look for a separate CDM12 manual, or get a newer book like the CD100G, or CD100H.  Those had the newer players in them.

The CCC is compatible. Can't help you with the terminal connection, I've never tried it. It seems like your cd MECH is not communicating with the CCC.  Check the rowelink connection cable going from the CCC to the MECH.  It may not be making a good connection.  If that doesn't fix it, do you know if your cd player is good.  Sometimes a bad player may cause the MECH to go haywire. 

[ed12]

it may not just yet flash an error code
but u can do 2 things
1=put unit in service mode (hard switch) u cannot mis it
then wait hit i think it popular 30 h
if i rem the input code right.? >it is in the manual
2=tell it to scan all disk's in the unit
it will do this for all 100 or what evr u have in it
once done
turn switch back to normal
and see if it will play
devil is in the details

ed

[lilshawn]

The port you mentioned is for a serial printer to be connected for printout of bookkeeping and play stat purposes.

[ami-man]

Hello mrtweaver,

Welcome to the forum, sadly you did not leave your name.

The Mechanism Control  Computer in your jukebox means you will have a CDM-12 or CD_PRO laser fitted in your jukebox. It will more than likely have had the open basket/carousel fitted as new or have been fitted with the conversion kit.

What is the squence of operation as you see it?
Are you getting any error codes and if so what are they?

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[mrtweaver]

Sorry for not giving name it is Martin. So here is what i can see.

Turn the power on, lights on power supply turn on and i know the power supply is good i have tested all the voltages, 28ac 24dc, 8dc

At this point on the CCC you see the following:
5vdc light turns on, Board error light turns on, rowelink light starts flashing, board error light flashes a couple of times then it turns off. So now at this point on the CCC you get the 5v light and the rowelink is flashing.

On the MCC you get a somewhat faint 5v not quite as bright as the one on the CCC. And the board error light starts flashing, and it would almost appear as though the board error light is flashing some code but it might just be something else causing the issue because sometimes the flashes seem longer. But that is all you get on the MCC, no rowlink light, no home light, nothing, just the dimmer 5v light and the board error light.

Then after about 30 seconds or so the system error light on the CCC comes on. I do beleive there are error messages but i failed to write them down.

[jdemarti]

Either the MECH is bad or the CD Player is bad. 

Try unplugging the CD player from the MECH and turn on the jukebox.  See if the board error light stays off Rowelink starts flashing on the MECH. If it flashes, you will eventually get an out of order on the jukebox display. If all that happens, that would indicate a bad cd player.

[mrtweaver]

Here is what i have done I pulled the CCC and the MCC out of the jukebox. I only have the power wires to the CCC then the cross connection power wires from CCC to MCC. And then i have the ROWE link wires.

If my basic understanding is correct the rowe link light on both CCC and MCC should flash and basically stated should talk to one another.

Would that be correct?

If so upon doing this test outlined above the 5v is on on both the CCC and the MCC. And the board error light turns on on the MCC.

So I did some basic trouble shooting and found what appeared to be some shorts in U7 and U8 which are darlington transistor arrays. I replaced both of these IC units

And now the board error light no longer turns on nor does it flash.

I have a new light that is illuminated that i am not sure i know what it means. On the side of the MCC there are 5 lights grouped together they are HOME, INDEX, ROWELINK TX, CDM COMM, and SCAN/TRANS.

Upon replacing the U7 and U8 as i said the board error light is no longer on, the new light that is on is SCAN/TRANS. Not sure what that means or if it is a good thing or a bad thing.

No other lights are illuminated, so i am assuming that there is no link between the CCC and MCC being as the light on the MCC is not flashing. But at least not it does not say board error.

[ed12]

as alan pointed out and i asked u
1=what exactley was/is the error ?
2=trans=transport
3= u do have a manual for this thing right ?

ed

[mrtweaver]

Ok here is the thing I can not say exactly what the error is or was, because this is the first time i have worked on a juke box.

As for the manuals, well i have a 2 part service manaual, as i stated in the first post to this stream I have the manuals and all but one component seems to match what is in the manual. The MCC listed in the manual is a different model than the one in my unit.

And the answer to this was that someone changed it to CDM12 or something like that. So now i need to find a manual that has the correct MCC in it. Right now I am hunting blindly when it comes to the MCC.

Bought the unit as non working. Figured i would cut my teeth on it and see what i can do.

Turned it on, lights started lighting and i figured i was off to a good start.

However it does not index the carriage, it does not move cds does not attempt to load cds.

It was through the use of this forum and from reading my service manual that i have been able to get as far as i have.

I am fairly certain the problem lies in the MCC. Once i replaced those two IC's mentioned before the Board error light now does not light. But now i get the scan trans.

I am thinking and maybe someone can correct me if i am wrong, but if the board is working as it should, the 5v light should be on, and the rowe link tx light should be flashing just like the one on the CCC. Would this be a correct guess?

Because now all i need to do is get the two boards to communicate since i got rid of the board error light. I do know that one of the error codes when displayed while the boards were in the juke box had something to do with communications. Dont recall exactly what it is.

Right now i have the boards here at work with me because here i have my scope and power supplies and other equipment that i dont have at home. And right now on my work bench i have the CCC and MCC tied together. And the light that does not flash or do anything is the rowelink.

I hope that answers your question as to what is wrong with the juke box. All I am doing is taking one step at a time, what works, what does not, what should, what should not, then seeing what i can do to correct what i see.

[ed12]

ok i mised the part that says u have the manual
but with that in hand
as was pointed out cdm4 and cdm12
cdm4 was the older philips player
cdm12 should be the newer sony player
for conversion u would need to refer to cd100-e converison manuals..
try phonoland
or post on jukebox.list
there is like alan can and will say to u a few very very good jukebox ppl,where i can guide and trouble shoot all
nsm/rowe/ami
some of the mods i missed and need to go to the ^^^ spots to fiquire it out..
best bet is phonoland

ed

[mrtweaver]

Well i did find the one site photoland and i posted the same questions on there.

The biggest questions i have right now are:

1 What does Scan/Trans light mean?

2. Once power is turned onto the MCC should the rowelink light flash like it does on the CCC? Or does it only flash when connection is established?

3. I have the rowelink wires connected between the CCC and the MCC and there is no flash from the MCC rowelink so i can only assume that there is still an issue with the MCC because it wont link. Agreed?

As I said since replacing U7 and U8 i got rid of the board error light on the MCC now just got to figure out the rest of it.

[ami-man]

Sorry for not giving name it is Martin. So here is what i can see.

Turn the power on, lights on power supply turn on and i know the power supply is good i have tested all the voltages, 28ac 24dc, 8dc

At this point on the CCC you see the following:
5vdc light turns on, Board error light turns on, rowelink light starts flashing, board error light flashes a couple of times then it turns off. So now at this point on the CCC you get the 5v light and the rowelink is flashing.

On the MCC you get a somewhat faint 5v not quite as bright as the one on the CCC. And the board error light starts flashing, and it would almost appear as though the board error light is flashing some code but it might just be something else causing the issue because sometimes the flashes seem longer. But that is all you get on the MCC, no rowlink light, no home light, nothing, just the dimmer 5v light and the board error light.

Then after about 30 seconds or so the system error light on the CCC comes on. I do beleive there are error messages but i failed to write them down.

Hello Martin,

If you have the CDM-12 or CDM-Pro lase fitted which seems to be the case on the mechanism Control Computer number you listed then the 8 volts is incorrect it needs to be 9 volts.

It could be that a different mechanism has been put into your jukebox that is not suitable for the power supply or the wiring loom.

I think you need to post some pictures of your jukebox to show the laser, mechanism control and the wiring to it also a shot of the power supply showing the connections and the power supply model number might help.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[mrtweaver]

Ok i will take some pics to add to this as well.

However i do hope that someone can answer me this, what exactly should happen to the rowelink leds on the CCC and the MCC?

Should they be flashing constantly at a high rate of speed or should they for the most part be off?

I ask this because when i initially started working on these CCC and MCC the two lights that would be on, on the CCC were the rowelink and 5v power.

Through doing some repairs to the MCC i was able to get the board error light off and the SCAN/TRANS light on, then doing some more repairs, now neither the CCC nor the MCC rowelink light flashes. except at startup then the CCC one flashes.

If I disconnect the rowelink wire between the two boards, then the rowelink light on the CCC starts flashing again. connect up the cable between the CCC and MCC stops flashing.

[ami-man]

Hi Martin,

I think you need to send your CCC, Mechanism Control Computer and laser with the cables attached to a Rowe Ami specialist in the USA to get them tested/repaired.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[Wrubel]

I'm not sure if you solved this problem or not, but I had the same scan/tran problem tonight that it sounds like you were having.

I accidentally didn't connect P7, because i forgot I tucked it into the cd area and didn't see it when I put it back together. I didn't realize at that time that it didn't need to be disconnected to remove that section. That is the link between the mechanism control and the actual parts. It doesn't look like it connects outside that area. This caused the scan/tran problem. As soon as I plugged it in it went away.

Check to make sure that is plugged in.

Hope my experiences help.

[Wrubel]

Also, in my experiences with this the last week, the ccc sends a command to the mech, once the mech completes the command it sends a response back. If it gets hung up because something doesn't work mechanically etc it won't send a signal back saying it completed the task. So the Rowe link lights won't flash on the mech. It doesn't mean it's not communicating, it seams to mean it's stuck not being able to complete the requested task from the ccc.