Dominux8 - what types of games does it NOT play well?

[Cynicaster]

I've been playing a lot of Robotron lately--including at a retro arcade on original cabinet with Wico sticks--and was really thinking about upgrading the sticks on my MAME cabinet (Happ Competitions) to Dominux8's for better Robotron performance. 

I know the Competition isn't very authentic for lots of games, but nonetheless I find it to be a very versatile, general-purpose stick.  I'm worried that I'll spend all that money on the expensive Dominux8's and they'll be too "specialized" for games like Robotron. 

I understand that the D8's are going to be no good for fighters, which is fine with me, because I never play those games. 

I like to play a lot of shoot-em-ups, which I'm assuming will be OK with a D8 because the hectic/twitchy movement is similar to Robotron.

What about games like Kung Fu Master and Rush N Attack?  Will I be accidentally jumping every 5 seconds with the D8?  Any other types of games that will suffer? 

[paigeoliver]

Games like Kung Fu Master and Rush N Attack generally had leaf switch sticks.

Leaf sticks aren't even bad for fighters. It is just at the highest competitive levels the microswitch sticks provide a tiny bit of an edge (while still feeling worse the whole time).

[DeLuSioNal29]

I own 4 of them on my dedicated Total Carnage/Smash TV (and soon to be Robotron 3-in-1 JAMMA machine).  I love them.

However, I will say that I originally installed them on my MAME cab and although the above games worked great (and others too like TMNT, Xmen, etc).  I absolutely hated them on SFII and similar games.  They are GREAT for dedicated WICO games, but I needed them to be great for EVERYTHING on MAME and it didn't happen.  Comps are a better option for all around gameplay.

That said, they worked PERFECTLY with all other games.  And I absolutely love them in my 3-in-1.

One thing I will say, they have an extremely long throw (wood versions, not metal versions).  So you'll need to compensate for that if it bothers you.  You can either adjust the leaf switches underneath to help or install a restrictor like I did on mine.  Randy T is planning to provide a future upgrade of restrictors for them by the way.  But I ended up doing it myself as shown in the videos below.

Search around on my Youtube channel for some Dominux 8 videos:
http://youtube.com/delusionalarcade2084

Good Luck!

DeLuSioNaL29

[Cynicaster]

I own 4 of them on my dedicated Total Carnage/Smash TV (and soon to be Robotron 3-in-1 JAMMA machine).  I love them.

However, I will say that I originally installed them on my MAME cab and although the above games worked great (and others too like TMNT, Xmen, etc).  I absolutely hated them on SFII and similar games.  They are GREAT for dedicated WICO games, but I needed them to be great for EVERYTHING on MAME and it didn't happen.  Comps are a better option for all around gameplay.

That said, they worked PERFECTLY with all other games.  And I absolutely love them in my 3-in-1.

One thing I will say, they have an extremely long throw (wood versions, not metal versions).  So you'll need to compensate for that if it bothers you.  You can either adjust the leaf switches underneath to help or install a restrictor like I did on mine.  Randy T is planning to provide a future upgrade of restrictors for them by the way.  But I ended up doing it myself as shown in the videos below.

Search around on my Youtube channel for some Dominux 8 videos:
http://youtube.com/delusionalarcade2084

Good Luck!

DeLuSioNaL29

Thanks man, that's exactly the kind of hands-on feedback I was hoping to get.   

How does the leaf adjustment work?  Do you have to physically bend the leafs (leaves?) or do you loosen the screw and rotate the switch holder? 

I'm a bit concerned because I've got a wood CP with 1 1/8" holes for the joysticks, and if I recall correctly, the joystick shafts are not perfectly centered in the holes.  They're close, but not perfect.  It never posed a problem with the Competitions, but I'm wondering if it will with these.  And, if it does, if I will be able to make a small tweak to the switches to compensate.   

Thanks

[DeLuSioNal29]

Normally, you just gently bend the contacts on the switches.  However, in your case, due to the long throw, you may hit the sides of the panel since they are not centered up perfectly.

I had a similar issue and I re-drilled new holes using a joystick template from Bob Roberts ($2.00).  It wasn't an issue for me since I had mounted the joysticks from underneath originally.  Easy fix with the template.  But I'm not sure what your situation is.  Pics would help.



But take a look at this topic to see what I mean about hitting the sides:  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,146015.0.html

DeL

[RandyT]

How does the leaf adjustment work?  Do you have to physically bend the leafs (leaves?) or do you loosen the screw and rotate the switch holder? 

I'm a bit concerned because I've got a wood CP with 1 1/8" holes for the joysticks, and if I recall correctly, the joystick shafts are not perfectly centered in the holes.  They're close, but not perfect.  It never posed a problem with the Competitions, but I'm wondering if it will with these.  And, if it does, if I will be able to make a small tweak to the switches to compensate.   

The screws are not part of the adjustment.  They help to mechanically fix the position of the switch holders, which are further secured by an adhesive.  They should not be disturbed.  Any required adjustments can be accomplished through slight bending of the leaves, and this should be done as close as possible to the body of the switch.

As to whether a slightly off center hole will affect anything, I'd say that depends on a few factors.  First being, how far off is it?  Absolute centering is usually not critical, if the shaft never comes into contact with the edges.  However, if the hole  is to be used as a throw limiter, which is perfectly acceptable to do with a wood panel, then it should be very close to centered.  If it's only off 1/16" or thereabouts, one can ream out the mounting holes of the joystick base, which will increase the diameter by 1/8" to provide a bit of centering adjustment on the panel.

As with anything, installation methods will dictate the final result.  How the Dominux is configured by the installer also has a substantial effect. 

Long shaft=longer throw=more leverage=lighter resistance. 

Short shaft=shorter throw=less leverage=higher resistance.

If the shorter throw is desired, but the panel is too thick, then the solution is to route a pocket in the underside for the stick, or in the case of a wood panel, reduce the size of the hole and use it for restriction. 

Also of note, is that the throw of a leaf based stick is dictated by first, the physical restriction, and second by how far you choose to push the stick while playing.  If you have the switches adjusted to activate very close to the centered position, pushing the stick further than the activation point of the switch doesn't make them "more activated" .  This comes down to play style, and if you are used to using a microswitch based stick which doesn't have the ability to be tuned, and their switches activate at the far end of the travel, you may find that through a bit of adjustment in play style, a more comfortable and precise gaming experience is possible with a leaf based stick.

[Cynicaster]

Thanks guys...

Randy, on a different topic, any word on that circular restrictor that was mentioned earlier in the thread?  If that is indeed in the works, maybe I'll just wait until that is available to pick up a few of the D8's. 

[RandyT]

Randy, on a different topic, any word on that circular restrictor that was mentioned earlier in the thread?  If that is indeed in the works, maybe I'll just wait until that is available to pick up a few of the D8's.

The thing which holds me back on this is deciding the proper size.  I really want to avoid having so many options that people become confused, or overwhelmed.  Then there is the long or short configuration question.  A given small circular restrictor may be fine for one, but feel truncated for the other, thus eliminating that option.  It may also benefit from a different fixed position of the switches, which would then remove the option of simply removing the plate if one decides later that they don't prefer the shorter throw.

The direction I am heading will likely be a "middle of the road" size, which maintains the design flexibility of the unit as a whole.  I'll need to do some prototyping to find it, and it may still not be optimal for some.  This is why I would rather see folks make their own determinations, and design the panel (if from wood) so that the stick can perform exactly as they wish.

[DeLuSioNal29]

I was about to ask the same thing about the add on restrictors.

However most (at least I do) build their panels from 3/4" wood. The D8 restrictors that I made for myself were perfect for a 1 1/8" hole in the wood.

Can you perhaps make a prototype first based on that?

D

[RandyT]

I've done a bit more research on the circular restrictor sizing and have made some comparisons.  The WICO circular restriction has ~1/8" smaller throw (at the point of restriction) in any direction, than an unrestricted Dominux8.  Of course, in the long shaft configuration, this extra distance at the base translates to a noticeably larger throw at the balltop.  Unfortunately, restricting the amount of throw at the top of the shaft, also restricts throw at the point of switch actuation, albeit to a lesser extent.

At this point, my goal is to balance the two, and it looks like the most achievable goal for smaller circular restriction, is to replicate the WICO restriction.  Any more than that would likely hinder the switch actuation, and may add to an undesirable feeling of "truncation" (i.e. the feeling that the switches activate very shortly before the end of the throw.)  This is something I personally dislike about the feeling of the WICO, and is the primary reason for my hesitance. But I will give it a go and let you know my thoughts.

This is only semi-related, but I also want to clarify here that the parts for both the long and short Dominux sticks are identical.  The units have been designed so that either configuration can be achieved, simply by changing the placement of two parts when assembling them.  How they are ordered on the store simply tells us how to assemble them for you when shipped.  The user can change this at any time, simply by swapping two parts around.  Not sure if this is clear to everyone, but I thought it was worth an underscore .

[Cynicaster]

At this point, my goal is to balance the two, and it looks like the most achievable goal for smaller circular restriction, is to replicate the WICO restriction.  Any more than that would likely hinder the switch actuation, and may add to an undesirable feeling of "truncation" (i.e. the feeling that the switches activate very shortly before the end of the throw.)  This is something I personally dislike about the feeling of the WICO, and is the primary reason for my hesitance. But I will give it a go and let you know my thoughts.

Sounds good Randy, I'll keep checking back to see if you've come up with something.  Really looking forward to updating these sticks!

If you put the sticks in the "short" configuration on a 5/8" panel, do you know if they would even be usable?  Just curious..

[RandyT]

I have just finished the prototype for the "Short throw round" restrictor, and surprisingly enough, I seem to have "nailed it" on the first try.  The throw is modeled after the WICO leaf, and it is virtually identical.  If the Dominux wasn't smoother feeling, it'd be nearly impossible to tell them apart when mounted in a panel.  The switch travel is just slightly smaller, due to the difference in fulcrum points between the two units, but there is still sufficient contact travel, overthrow, and switch adjust-ability.  There is likely an added benefit of even longer contact and grommet life as well, due to further reduced grommet flex and contact slide.  With a standard 1 1/8" hole in 3/4" material, there is still a good 1/8" shaft clearance.

Now, is it my "cup o' tea"?  Hard to say.  I've become accustomed to the feel of the longer throw, grommet centered sticks.  But I definitely understand the desire for a limited throw with fighting games and such, where riding the round restrictor facilitates fireballs, etc...  After observing the switches as they actuate, I have to say, if one cannot easily pull off a half circle move with this setup, they are probably using their feet. 

I'll make the option available on the store shortly.

If you put the sticks in the "short" configuration on a 5/8" panel, do you know if they would even be usable?  Just curious..

I tend to think not.  The length in the short configuration was designed to mimic the height of the standard WICO, when paired with the Hand-Candy balltops.  The WICO would be quite short on such an unmodified panel, so the short-configured Dominux would as well.  The solution is to route a pocket for the joystick body to within ~ 3/16" (maybe even as little as 1/8") of the panels upper surface and use carriage bolts to mount the stick. Or, use the long configuration.

[DeLuSioNal29]

I'd love to try a pair and compare them side by side to my existing mods:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,146015.msg1539025.html#msg1539025

Any chance you can send me a pair?  I did not seem them in the store.

Also, I had a couple of questions:
1)  Is the hole diameter 7/8"?
2)  What happens to the dust washer?  On my version I have it on top of the joystick so the washer is unaffected, but if your design is on the inside, where does the washer go?


D

[RandyT]

I'd love to try a pair and compare them side by side to my existing mods:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,146015.msg1539025.html#msg1539025

Any chance you can send me a pair?  I did not seem them in the store.

Also, I had a couple of questions:
1)  Is the hole diameter 7/8"?
2)  What happens to the dust washer?  On my version I have it on top of the joystick so the washer is unaffected, but if your design is on the inside, where does the washer go?

I can send you a pair to try out, but you will need to drill some tiny pilot holes for the screws, as yours were not ordered with any of the restrictor plates.

1) No, it is smaller, but as it sits lower, the reduction is likely to be similar.

2) Dust washers usually sit below a metal panel, but where wood is concerned, they are usually more functional and look better on top, so as to avoid the deep hole around the shaft (i.e. a debris collection pit  ).  Yours is a bit of a hybrid, so the desire to retain the visuals on the panel necessitates that they be below the wood.  Ideally, there should be a gap between the metal and the wood, so that the washers can float inside.  But to replicate what you have, you'd just need to use spacers between the joystick body and the lower surface of the panel, to allow the dust washer to move freely in-between.

[Cynicaster]

I'll make the option available on the store shortly.

Sweet!   

Hate to be a nuisance, but do you mean "a few days" shortly, or "a few weeks" shortly, or...?  Just trying to plan a weekend to set all this up. 

[RandyT]

Before the weekend.  I'll also be adding the "Pure Diamond 4-way" restrictor option at that time.

[Mr. Peabody]

Except for two-way games, I run the restriction tight on about any game I can think of. I can't imagine playing differently. (Except in bullet-hells, only because less movement is critical.) I haven't tried my recently-purchased Dom8 (I'm still playing with the Leaf Pro), nor hence the octo restrictor, but I'll buy this now anyways.

[Mr. Peabody]

No joy yet, huh?

[RandyT]

No joy yet, huh?

I was hoping to show the restriction options properly on the store, by making some images of the patterns with descriptions, but I think I will add that later.  For now, I have just added the option so folks who are waiting can get an order in.

My apologies for the delay.  Had every intention of getting this done, but poor ol' RandyT is also the "maintenance guy" (along with about a dozen other titles) in this 12000 sqft  building.    Had some record low temps here, and thanks to that, had some urgent boiler and pellet stove issues to deal with. Got down to -30F one night, and we ended up with steam blowing into places it shouldn't and some ice formations on the inside wall of the basement!  Then everything melted the next day, so that was fun too.  Note to any homeowners out there,  keep a few rolls of silicone repair tape in your toolbox.  The stuff is a modern miracle and has saved my butt more than once.

[Cynicaster]

No joy yet, huh?

I was hoping to show the restriction options properly on the store, by making some images of the patterns with descriptions, but I think I will add that later.  For now, I have just added the option so folks who are waiting can get an order in.

Sweet, now I can stop checking twice a day. 

I don't suppose you have a Canadian distributor do you?  $38.50 US (or about $50 CDN) sounds awful expensive to ship 2 joysticks. 

[RandyT]

I don't suppose you have a Canadian distributor do you?  $38.50 US (or about $50 CDN) sounds awful expensive to ship 2 joysticks.

No, and even if we did, those costs would be passed onto you, plus a mark-up from the middleman.

They are heavier and bulky items.  Unfortunately, the US government doesn't subsidize export shipping like China does. 

[Mr. Peabody]

I was hoping to show the restriction options properly on the store, by making some images of the patterns with descriptions, but I think I will add that later.  For now, I have just added the option so folks who are waiting can get an order in.

So how do we buy them by themselves?

  $38.50 US (or about $50 CDN) sounds awful expensive to ship 2 joysticks.

I thought $15 was a bit much myself, but the package came across-country in two days......

[RandyT]

So how do we buy them by themselves?

You can order a "Widget" at the store.  Then just note in the comments what you are ordering.  Don't pay any attention to the order and shipping totals.  We'll correct all that before you are charged.

Just know that if your Dominux was not originally ordered with a restriction plate, you will need to use the restrictor plate as a template to mark, and then drill, 4 tiny pilot holes for the plate mounting screws.

I thought $15 was a bit much myself, but the package came across-country in two days......

The only thing which might slow down international packages, is customs in the destination country.  Obviously, we have no control over this.