As usual, there are some truths to X's opinions, and there are also things which just aren't.
Old-style leaf buttons were very hard on the leaf switches. Not a big deal in those days, where they were plentiful and inexpensive, and there were people who regularly took care of the games to replace/clean them when there were problems. I have seen the leaf switches from those old buttons with the contacts completely ground off, due to the "feature" of not bottoming out (which they certainly still do if you push them all the way down.)
Everything wears over the number of presses. This is typical mechanics. These is rarely such a thing as an Indestructible part. In fact, many parts are made to wear and be replaced.. to spare the more expensive parts.. such as the spacers inside a happs competition joystick. If there were made of stainless steel rather than plastic.. they would wear the joystick base.. making it completely useless in less than a years worth of operation. Making the spacer destructible, means only having to replace the .25 cent part.
Also, most retro games were far more button intensive. Rapidfire games were far more prevalent.. rather than use of auto-fire. And while there is auto-fire in some classics.. it often gives the player faster fire rates if they choose to manually fire.
This higher fire rate, would of course cause a lot more wear, far quicker.
The leaf contacts were quite thick, but they also were replaceable, should they wear out.
And yup, they can bottom out... but if used properly, its easy to keep that from happening. Equating to a far more quiet, comfortable, and enjoyable, experience. (no more impact fatigue, and faster response times due to recovered energy)
Ive seen microswitches of quality in brand new games.. fail in the arcade in a matter of 2 years. They are far from an indestructible technology.
And when they do break... there is no real repairing them. You just replace them.
But wear is hardly as issue to the home game user... as they do not play a game 24x7, as a busy arcade game would be played. Ive seen ancient leaf buttons, work like they were brand new. Then again, Ive seen them at their worst.. when the metal has finally fatigued, and they dont maintain their functional reliability. But that again, isnt the issue. The real issues are mostly to do with comfort, control, and desired reaction.
They also have a long throw, which is why you must adopt X's play style, if you wish to use them effectively. If you play by "hovering" above the button until you wish to activate it, or like to hit them hard, there is enough extra travel that you might not care for them. Every modern button uses a shorter plunger, and has a shorter plunger throw.
False Statements.
1) This isnt MY style of play. "Floating" a leaf-button, was the intended way to play these games. A widely known technique, that got lost over the years.
2) You do NOT Hover over a button! You simply rest your fingers on the button, and the spring compresses slightly. Press a little more into it.. and simply maintain that "middle-area" of the button.
Its the new hybrids that you have to hover above the buttons.. because they are so sensitive.. that your mere finger weight sets them off. That means you have to actively engage your finger muscles to be constantly "ON" to hold them up.. so that they dont fall onto the button... least it go off immediately. This actually causes far more strain, to have to hold your fingers up for long duration... and can easily lead to internal hand injuries such as carpel tunnel.
Furthermore , "Modern" does not always equate to Better, despite the Egotistical Generational Hype that people want to believe.
But tell me Randy... Do Modern Pinball machines use Microswitches or Leaf switches on their buttons? (and assemblies)
Ill spare the wait for others: Yup.. thats right.. a modern Pinball machine, made in the year 2015, still uses Leafswitches .. for both player buttons... and the assemblies. And for really good reasons. Not merely because they didnt want to swap out for Happs Micros.
The plunger length has to be short for Micros.. because Micros are a fixed actuation distance. Micros are designed for very reliable positive click functionality... hence, they are great for fighting games.... But Horrible for Rapidfire games.
Plunger length however, does not denote activation speed, nor repeatable action. That is denoted by how you use the button.
And... even if you bottom out a leaf, you can stop it again at mid-level, on its upward return, for a faster quick repeat.. unlike a microswitch, which Always uses the full travel each time.
Finally, as mentioned before.. Games using Micros tend not to have rapid repeating fire. Hence, you have no need for a leaf.
But try to play Halleys Comet with a standard happs microswitch. Even if you were really good at the game.. you couldnt last more than a few minutes without finger strain. Wont happen on a regular leaf... so you could play 30 or more minutes with ease...
Installation of the old style leaf buttons is also a pain, compared to newer alternatives. The switches are required to be spaced properly from the underside of the panel (how you do it is up to you) and it's not very forgiving. Too close and it results in stiff actuation, and unnecessary contact wear. Too far away, and the buttons will bottom out after a long travel to actuate them. I have seen both of these undesirable implementations, even on one of my actual arcade machines. It's these kinds of issues associated with the old buttons, which caused an entire industry to abandon them. One can argue whether it was the right thing to do, but it doesn't change history, nor the reasons for doing so.
Please site your sources to factual data proof, at various companies, to back up this statement.
It wasnt hard for Leafs to be installed properly. They came factory correct from the start. If some lazy / time challenged OP, swapped out a part for something incorrect, that he had "on-hand" ... that was all his own doing.
Its almost like saying that a particular assembly made for your car, isnt worth installing... because a lot of clueless mechanics, botch the job up with incorrect mis-matched parts and poor installation practices.
While Micros have an easier mounting solution... it doesnt really make them superior in certain applications.
It also does not take a Nasa Engineer, to install a leafswitch properly. To say that, would insulting a lot of peoples intelligence.
Anyone can admit, that leafs do have their drawbacks. But it wasnt merely that the game industry decided to abolish them immediately... all at once. Smash TV was released in 1990... with leaf swich joysticks. The Simpsons was released in 1991, with leaf sticks. And Im sure there may have been others past this year.
Games started to change, most especially in the 90s.. when Street Fighter II hit. Game companies started making less and less original titles.. and rather than care about skill levels in games, they shifted their focus on "Continues". There was no longer any care about the needed fire-rate to be able to survive a level. Instead, you got autofire... and they just blanketed the screen in bullets.. knowing that most would just pop in more quarters to continue. Thus, need for leafs were reduced to nothing, shortly after.
Still, as said.. things like Pinball Machines kept using them... for the feel, and ultra quick reactions, that they provide.
(As well as their uses in ball activated assemblies, which needed specific weigh activation... as well as extreme durability (targets).
from: Xiaou2 on January 04, 2016, 03:23:42 am
The leafs can easily be controlled to be open and closed as close, or closer, than the thickness of a piece of tracing paper.
No matter how you mod your Micros, that just will not be possible.
Not true. What you describe is almost exactly what the adjustment screw of our Versa-Micro switches accomplishes. It doesn't make it a leaf switch, but it does give the micro that specific adjustment.
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False I never said you couldnt adjust them.. but that you could not adjust them to perform like a real leaf.
As for softer microswitches failing faster (something which I have not seen substantiated,) you have to also ask whether the primary concern is that the switch is more enjoyable to use, or whether the sub-one-dollar switch lasts an extra year in an arcade environment. I'd venture to guess that the choice would be for the former, for most players.
Hah.. now you are using my argument points, 'comfort' ...but for Micros. But lets just say this... after 3 years of daily arcade repairs.. 5 to 6 days a week.. (anywhere from 45 to 55 hours).. in a busy mall foodcourt... Ive seen a Lot of abuse and failure. Ive seen and repaired the insides of more games and their assemblies, than one could imagine.
Micros failing, was a very common occurrence. Only taking maybe 3rd place to coin mech re-adjustments, and ticket feeder jams.
Nobody noticed the comfort / pressure difference between light micros and heavier sprung micros... because they were not being used on Older games, such as the Rapidfire Leaf games. The problem you speak of.. is when people try to use standard Micros to play games that never were designed for them. Hence, they quickly fatigue from the heavy resistance of a non-tweaked or soft-click micro.
In the end, everyone will have different requirements, based on play style, the level of comfort they have in doing what's required to install them, budget, appearance, build limitations, ease of maintenance, etc... Only the person building the machine, and ultimately using it, can know which variety will be the most suitable for any build. The best advice is to get your "must have" criteria list written, and do some sampling from those offerings which meet it. Otherwise, you may be relying on the opinions of others who have completely different criteria from yours.
Or just do your homework. See what the original games used... and decide if you want the original feel, comfort, and superior performance... that the games were designed and built with.
It can be as vast of a difference, similar in comparison, to a Lamborghini... vs... a Chevy Cavalier. (specific controller advantages)
And or like trying to use a butterknife, to turn a phillips screw. (incorrect controller type for game)
One of us here has an Invested interest... One does not.
I feel sorry for having to "dis" on the products that a vendor puts up for sale. If I felt differently, then Id be raving and recommending... but alas, I sadly just can not do that, in this case.
I myself made mistakes many times in my assumptions and opinion.. especially with leafs, in my past. It took a little bit of new knowledge, and some testing, to see the true light... and then eat my hat.
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Topic: Best Button Controls (Read 8857 times)
