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Author Topic: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i  (Read 5397 times)

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tom5151

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CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« on: January 02, 2016, 05:30:17 am »
Hi all,
Firstable a big thanks to @Calamity for this new 2.0 CRT Emudriver :applaud:
I can now enjoy my fanless 6850 card ::)
Everything seems to work fine (I still have to do some tests, especially with zsnes because I have a IDirectDraw7::SetDisplayMode error with this emu that I didn't get before), but I only have 1 strange problem.
My desktop which is in 640x480 60i looks blurred, more than when I was with version 1.2 with a 4890 card.
For your information, I 'm on 7 (ATI 6850), my screen is a NAC's screen (MS29-29), and ArcadeOSD indicates "CRT Emudriver 2.0 ( 12.8 )".
Is it me or does anybody else have this pb as well ?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 05:56:49 am by tom5151 »

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2016, 09:53:42 am »
Have you flashed your card with ATOM-15?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2016, 09:58:24 am »
No, I haven't flashed.
I'm just using your drivers (2.0 beta 2)

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2016, 10:07:59 am »
I was asking this because I do have noticed a similar issue with my flashed HD 6450, that doesn't happen with the original bios. It's due to the interleave settings that ATOM-15 applies.

Please check if it's only blur what you see or the line order is actually wrong. Sometimes you need some experience to judge this.

Expect different cards to look slightly different, however. I have seen this too.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2016, 11:07:32 am »
Thanks for your reply.
To be honest I don't know how to check the line order....  ???
I was asking this because in Arcade OSD, I see 2 "resolutions" for 640x480 that I didn't get before (with my 4890), and all the other "low resolutions" are working like a charm in groovymame.
And I see a native strange resolution as well 720x480 60i (with beta 3)

EDIT: I've just tried to use the other DVI port available on my graphic card (just in case it could have been that), but I'm not able to use it. It sounds like only the first DVI is working.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 11:17:49 am by tom5151 »

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2016, 11:35:21 am »
Maybe the other port is only digital (dvi-d)? Coud you enable it through the system display manager?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2016, 12:33:04 pm »
The ports are both DVI-I (there are also 1 HDMI and 1DP)
In VMMaker settings, I can see 2 outputs (Analog_0 and Analog1) and 3 devices (//DISPLAY1 which is enabled, and //DISPLAY2 and //DISPLAY3 which are disabled)
But as soon as I plug into (I guess) the second DVI port, my windows boots fine, I can connect to it through VNC, but I have nothing on my arcade monitor.
Do I need to do something special to activate this output ?

What is strange is this 640x480x30i resolution. By default, this resolution is selected. And there is a strange behaviour when I want to change de desktop mode in ArcadeOSD.
When I press the down key for selecting "Set as desktop mode" option, the cursor doesn't move on each pressed down key.
So I press 1 time, nothing happens, I press another time then it moves to Edit modeline, then again it doesn't move when pressing down, then it goes to "copy modelling to clipboard")  ???

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2016, 06:26:05 pm »
Do I need to do something special to activate this output ?

You need to extend the desktop to that output, using the Windows display manager.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2016, 05:09:38 am »
I would like to extend it, but only 1 display is detected in windows :(

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2016, 05:26:14 am »
I would like to extend it, but only 1 display is detected in windows :(

Could you post a screenshot of the display dialog?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2016, 09:45:51 am »
Sure, here it is:

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2016, 10:06:23 am »
Ok I forgot you had an HD 6850.

My HD 6450 only has one analog output. So probably it's the case with yours. What you have to do is enabling edid emulation on Analog_1. If that makes a second display to to applar in the display properties, then you have two analog outputs, otherwise you only have one.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2016, 10:39:22 am »
The thing is EDID emulation is already enabled on Analog_O and Analog_1 in VM Maker settings.

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2016, 10:46:15 am »
The thing is EDID emulation is already enabled on Analog_O and Analog_1 in VM Maker settings.

Then I'm sorry to say you only have one analog output, just like my HD 6450. This is the bad thing about newer cards.

The confusing part is that the DVI plug probably looks like the DVI-I one, but it's a DVI-D in fact.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2016, 10:56:56 am »
Ok thanks for your help.
I think I will switch back to my all good one 4890 !
This blurry 640x480 is too much annoying... so sad because my NAC was so cool and so quiet with this 6890 graphic card!

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2016, 10:59:05 am »
Ok thanks for your help.
I think I will switch back to my all good one 4890 !
This blurry 640x480 is too much annoying... so sad because my NAC was so cool and so quiet with this 6890 graphic card!

But do you really need 2 outputs? The overall HD 6xxx experience is much smoother than legacy cards once you have it going.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2016, 11:36:09 am »
No no, I don't need 2 outputs.
It was just for testing if the other output was less blurry.
I know things are better with the 6850, but the blurry screen in 640x480 is too much annoying :(
I was thinking it could have been because my resolution was 640 480 30i, but I managed to set desktop to 640 480 60i, and it's still blurry?
I was thinking it could have been the dvi - vga adapter, but I've tried another one, and still the same.
As you said, graphics cards look slightly different, but to me it's more than slightly in this case.

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2016, 02:34:30 pm »
Hi @Calamity,
Just to let you know that I've switched back to my 4890.
I wanted to take a photo of the screen with the 6850 then with the 4890.
And something funny is that I was able to take a photo without any pb with the 6850, but with the 4890, no way to take a photo with the same camera settings.
Looks there is a refresh rate difference on the screen between 4890 and 6850 (unfortunately the photos don't show the blurry pb).

Photo with the 6850:


Photo with the 4890:


Here is the ArcadeOSD for the 6850:


and for the 4890:


As you can see, there is a difference with the 640 480 resolutions (2 resolutions are available for the 6850, and it's only in 640x480 that I'have a blurry screen) and the strange native resolution (720 480).
But maybe it's quite normal.

Finally, maybe there is a bug with the 2.0b3 drivers, because, my zsnes refuses to launch a game with the new drivers (and the 4890).
I didn't changed anything in my launch process : switch the resolution to 256x224, then launch the game with znes.
With the 1.2 (4890), it was working fine, but with the 2.0b3 (4890), I have this error:

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2016, 03:33:14 pm »
As you can see, there is a difference with the 640 480 resolutions (2 resolutions are available for the 6850, and it's only in 640x480 that I'have a blurry screen) and the strange native resolution (720 480).
But maybe it's quite normal.

Yeah that's normal. The newer cards use a different api and the default video mode from the edid appears as 30i while the ones created by vmmaker are 60i. But that has nothing to do with blurriness.

Quote
Finally, maybe there is a bug with the 2.0b3 drivers, because, my zsnes refuses to launch a game with the new drivers (and the 4890).
I didn't changed anything in my launch process : switch the resolution to 256x224, then launch the game with znes.
With the 1.2 (4890), it was working fine, but with the 2.0b3 (4890), I have this error:


Have you created a 256x224 mode? Had you tested this before in 7?

« Last Edit: January 03, 2016, 03:38:01 pm by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2016, 03:55:11 pm »
I have always been on 7.
Sure I have a  256x224 mode.
I even switch manually my resolution to 256x224 with this tool (http://12noon.com/?page_id=80) then I start the game with zsnes.
That's the only way I found to get "low resolutions" with other emus than groovymame. It sounds like there is a pb with a lots of emu to switch from 640 480 30i to 256 224 60p resolution (fusion, magic engine, znes)....
Anyway, I'm pretty sure it was working with 1.2 version on win 7.
And what is funny is that it was working with my 6850 card and 2.0b3 drivers  ???

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2016, 04:06:09 pm »
Quote
It sounds like there is a pb with a lots of emu to switch from 640 480 30i to 256 224 60p resolution (fusion, magic engine, znes)

Yeah, basically all ddraw based emulators. This is a known bug of the Windows 7 os.

If the video mode is there and it works with Arcade OSD then everything is fine. It's a problem with the emulator. Are you sure your display switching app is working properly?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2016, 04:46:14 pm »
Thanks for the information about this win7 bug. The bug is about switching from any 'i' résolution to a 'p' résolution ?
I guess this bug has been propagated to win 8 and 10!
So why the switch is working with groovymame on win7?

Yes, I'm sure the switch app is working fine. Because 256x224 is a very small resolution and my windows after switching is very very small ;)
But it's strange that the pb is there with 2.0b3 ans not with 1.2 ???

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2016, 04:55:20 pm »
Thanks for the information about this win7 bug. The bug is about switching from any 'i' résolution to a 'p' résolution ?
I guess this bug has been propagated to win 8 and 10!
So why the switch is working with groovymame on win7?

Yes, it affects 7/8/10. Switching from interlaced to progressive and the opposite is broken for ddraw. Works for d3d. GM has specific patches to workaround it, if you seach the forum you'll read about our long time fight.

Quote
Yes, I'm sure the switch app is working fine. Because 256x224 is a very small resolution and my windows after switching is very very small ;)
But it's strange that the pb is there with 2.0b3 ans not with 1.2 ???

Yes it's strange, and in my experience I'd say it's something else, something silly that's different and we can't just figure out at the moment.

DirectDraw emulators are dead anyway.
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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2016, 05:05:08 pm »
Thanks for your time @Calamity.
I will search the forum and  try to undertand more.
DirectDraw emulators are dead... Well I still didn't find good alternative to fusion, magic engine and zsnes...
What would you suggest?

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2016, 05:09:25 pm »
Quote
What would you suggest?

I'd suggest the emulator developers moved to Direct2D or Direct3D. The problem is some of those emus are discontinued.

I have the same problem with Arcade OSD, it's DirectDraw based and it doesn't work properly starting with Windows 8.
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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2016, 05:14:26 pm »
Exactly, these emus are discontinued  :dunno
I'm dreaming of a GroovyRetroarch  ::)

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2016, 03:26:38 pm »
Hi @Calamity,

Just to let you know that I've switched back to 1.2 and I don't have any more error when launching zsnes.
So I think the problem is my modes generation.
In 1.2, I don't have any pb to generate my modes (with 1.4b VMMaker), but in 2.0, if I am in static table method, I have this error:

Code: [Select]
Error: overlapped labels for these modes:
/superfam                       
"256x224_60 15.51KHz 60.10Hz" 5.33 256 280 304 344 224 233 236 258 -hsync -vsync
/megadrive                     
"256x224_60 15.48KHz 60.00Hz" 5.33 256 280 304 344 224 233 236 258 -hsync -vsync

If I switch to dynamic table method, the error disappears, but the generated modes are not the same that in 1.2 and I get the IDirectDraw7 error in zsnes.
Could you help me to understand what I'm doing wrong with the new drivers ?

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2016, 05:06:39 pm »
You need to use a dynamic table because those two resolutions overlap, or use a static table and delete one of those resolutions from user_mode.ini.

I'm thinking the issue you're seeing with the new tools is probably because VMMaker is creating 256x240 instead of 256x224. This is because, by default, the minimum vertical resolution is set as 240. Modify this setting in the settings dialog, to 224, so 256x224 is created.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2016, 05:17:03 pm »
Should work also a small cheat:

256@232@60.10
256@224@60.00

You just have to disable aby stretching in superfamicom emulator
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 05:18:45 pm by haynor666 »

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2016, 06:59:13 pm »
You need to use a dynamic table because those two resolutions overlap, or use a static table and delete one of those resolutions from user_mode.ini.

I'm thinking the issue you're seeing with the new tools is probably because VMMaker is creating 256x240 instead of 256x224. This is because, by default, the minimum vertical resolution is set as 240. Modify this setting in the settings dialog, to 224, so 256x224 is created.

I've tried to either remove one 256x224 resolution in static mode or use dynamic mode with both resolutions, but no way, I still have the IDirectDraw error (after having changed the minimum vertical resolution to 224).
The thing is the generated resolutions in 1.2 are not the same than in 2.0 (for example 256 x 224 60p 59.942 15.465 in 1.2 and 256 x 224 60p 60.055 15.494 in 2.0 with the same user modes file)
So I've tried to install (static mode) the resolution that was installed with 1.2 i.e. 256 x 224 @ 59.942000
But stil the same issue  :-\
In 1.2, I have as well "strange" generated resolutions (which I don't have in 2.0), 2 lines with the same thing:
Code: [Select]
257 224 60p 60.062 15.436 custom
257 224 60p 60.062 15.436 custom
But regarding my emu configuration (256 x 224), it shouldn't use this resolution !

EDIT: I've just tried to use VVMaker 1.4b with 2.0b3 driver, and I don't get IDirectDraw error anymore.
To be honest, the more I try to understand, the less I understand  :o

Should work also a small cheat:

256@232@60.10
256@224@60.00

You just have to disable aby stretching in superfamicom emulator
Sorry but I don't understand what you mean.
My emu is configured like this:
CustomResX=256
CustomResY=224
Keep4_3Ratio=0
What do you suggest exactly ? To configure my snes emu to 256 x 232 and keep 4:3 aspect ratio ?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 07:08:26 pm by tom5151 »

Calamity

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2016, 07:20:58 pm »
The small difference in the modelines are probably due to slightly different monitor presets, not really important. Could you post an screenshot of Arcade Osd mode list (the part where the 256x modes are listed).
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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2016, 07:26:32 pm »
I'll post the screenshot tmrw, it's 1.25am there and I work tmrw :(
What do you want me to post ?
An Arcade OSD (old version) screenshot of the mode list generated with 1.4b VS the same screenshot (with new ArcadeOSD version) generated by new VM Maker ?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 07:29:08 pm by tom5151 »

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2016, 07:31:21 pm »
I'll post the screenshot tmrw, it's 1.25am there and I work tmrw :(
What do you want me to post ?
An Arcade OSD (old version) screenshot of the mode list generated with 1.4b VS the same screenshot (with new ArcadeOSD version) generated by new VM Maker ?

New Arcade OSD & VMMaker
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2016, 12:14:41 pm »
New Arcade OSD & VMMaker
Here are 2 screenshots:

Drivers 2.0b3 with old VMMaker: zsnes is working


Drivers 2.0b3 with new VMMaker (dynamic mode table method): zsnes is not working


Just something interesting is that my blurry feeling with the 6850 was exactly the same than between these 2 screenshots: one is "smoother" than the other, but more blurry to me.

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2016, 11:56:37 am »
Hi @Calamity, any idea about the screenshots I posted yesterday ?

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2016, 12:15:30 pm »
Hi tom5151, the blurriness you see is because Arcade osd 2.0 uses antialias for its fonts. I hope you didn't ditch the other card because of this. :)

The only difference in the mode list, as you said, are the 257x modes. Those modes are a remnant of trick I used for Windows xp that doesn't work for 7. If that is making your emulator work, then I don't understand anything.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2016, 12:20:45 pm »
No, I didn't switch back to my 4890 because of the font. I was expecting it was the font, it was just to point the "global blurriness" feeling I had (not only with the font).
Damn it, if you don't undestand, I'm lost :P

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2016, 12:50:22 pm »
Are you trying the new beta 4 tools?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2016, 03:15:54 pm »
I've just tried, but unfortunately, I get back this IDirectDraw7::SetDisplayMode failed when I don't have it with old VMMaker :banghead:

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Re: CRT Emudriver 2.0 Win7 blurry 640x480 60i
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2016, 03:45:49 pm »
If you post a link of the exact version of zsnes you're using, I'll test it when I have some time.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi