Help Needed. Looking for a part that I'm not sure exists

[ASilver76]

Hey all,

I've got a question that I'm hoping someone can answer. I'm looking for a part - a certain, special part - that I'm not sure exists, but I'm fairly certain does in some form or another.

It's a d-pad type control, with a socket in the center of the pad for a screw-in joystick shaft.

It's for a small portable MAME project I'm planning, that otherwise seems to be coming together quite well. Finding buttons has not been a problem, but I want to include an input control that's flexable enough to be used with either a thumb or a hand, depending on personal preference. I've seen a few screw-in joysticks that seem to work great for portable projects, but they are just joysticks. And I've seen a few d-pad variants with tiny little screw-in nubs that are supposed to function as "joysticks", but are actually just a joke because of their size. Frankly, I don't care if it's a commercial part, or totally DIY; I'm just looking to find something. So if anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate hearing them.

Thanks again, and happy holidays!

[PL1]

It's a d-pad type control, with a socket in the center of the pad for a screw-in joystick shaft.

It's for a small portable MAME project I'm planning, that otherwise seems to be coming together quite well. Finding buttons has not been a problem, but I want to include an input control that's flexable enough to be used with either a thumb or a hand, depending on personal preference. I've seen a few screw-in joysticks that seem to work great for portable projects, but they are just joysticks. And I've seen a few d-pad variants with tiny little screw-in nubs that are supposed to function as "joysticks", but are actually just a joke because of their size.

I'm guessing that the "tiny little screw-in nubs" variants you mention are made by Gravis like this one, this one, or this one.

 


Scott

[ASilver76]

Exactly. Some have more of an analog nub-stick design then the Gravis ones (and effectively act as another form of thumb control). The problem with Gravis products are that 1) the "joystick" is far too small, and 2) the d-pad itself is fairly poor. Whatever I end up using, it needs to be responsive and "feel" right as a d-pad and not just as a joystick - sturdy, not mushy.

[PL1]

I don't think you'll find any D-pad that will work well both with and without a full-sized stick attached.   

Compare the relatively low torque generated by a D-pad (very short lever) compared to the torque generated by a full-size stick. (much longer lever)

You'll probably need to settle for either a D-pad (possibly with a Gravis-sized thumbstick) or a small-to-medium stick like this one.




Scott

[Rockhart]

Not sure if this is too small, but the Beeshu Zipper controller had a joystick that attached to it's d-pad.

[ASilver76]

The Beeshu is interesting, but pad is, as you said, a bit too small (not to mention awkward).

[dezmond]

Why not make your own?

[Xiaou2]

Find a decent d-pad with screw-in ...   then simply take the mini-stick... and shove it into a wooden handle that has a hole drilled into the bottom.   Use a 2 part epoxy putty called "Quiksteel"  (not the stuff from JB weld)   , to bond it together.

 Stain or paint the wood with an oil based paint,  and then put a few clear coat spray layers over the top of it.

 (and or find a colored plastic handle,  and do the same)

 Note... that the stick being taller... will allow for a lot more leverage.   Its quite possible that someone might accidentally rip the d-pad right out of the controller.

Edit:

 I will add... I think it would be better to mount a decent quality mini joystick to the control panel..  and place hidden d-pad controllers inside the unit  (possibly on tape-measure like retracting cables). That way, one could pull out the controllers as needed, without having to find the mini stick, screw and unscrew it...  (as well as to store, and or possible lose it)  and also avoiding the issues that come from dual purpose sticks  (such as the joystick mod not actually feeling and reacting very good), and potential breakage.

[ASilver76]

I might have to. The problem is, I'm not well-versed at DIY. So if there's something out that already exists there I can use instead, I'm all for it. But if someone has an idea on how to build something like this from scratch, also I'm game.

[ASilver76]

Xiaou2,

Your post came up literally seconds before my own post went through. Excellent timing. And you seem to have read my mind as well. Thanks for the suggestion. The only thing is that I want the joystick bit to be removable, and not in the accidental manner you mentioned. I was also thinking that a d-pad roughly twice the size of the standard one might be the first thing to look for - or build. 

[paigeoliver]

Those Gravis pads are terrible, they naturally want to go to the diagonals all the time, Like if you press left and are off by even a micron then it will lean up or down and hit a diagonal.

[Phreakwars]

How about using a NES advantage? You could probably find one on eBay pretty cheap, and it's SUPER DUPER easy to hack. Check out the PCB:

[ASilver76]

That looks interesting. Very interesting. I'm going to need to look into this further. Thanks for the tip!

[Xiaou2]

From your description, its hard to envision what you are typing to build.

 I thought you were making some sort of bartop machine...  and if so.. there really would be no easy way for a person to use a D-pad.. unless it detached from the control panel... and was fairly thin, so one could wrap their hands around it.  (you cant really operate a dpad vertically, using your fingers.  its made for the thumb rolling action)

 On the other hand... if you hold a d-pad in your hands... you cant easily grasp a long stick handle... unless you let go of the pad, and only grab the stick (which wont work, cause theres nothing to keep the base from moving)   

 Setting a gamepad on the floor isnt a good option, because they are thin, light weight, and would move too easily when you move the stick.

 This is why all the gamepads that have the screw in insert, use tiny sticks...  so that you can keep your hand wrapped around the unit, for stable play and use.

 If the base if too thick, and heavy, then it becomes impossible for someone to hold this in their hands, like a gamepad.

 This is why I say.. its easier to hide a thin detachable gamepad inside of a larger joystick controller shell / control panel / bartop shell...etc.

 Trying to mod a dpad to be larger... i dont reallly see how that makes things any different?


 The only thought that comes to mind... is a dpad that has locking  fold-out/slide out  base extending legs...  which widen the footprint that a gamepad would take up... allowing stick use on the floor, without easily tipping over.   The legs would form an "X" shape when expanded.

 Other than that... Im not reaaly certain of your intentions, based on your limited description

[yotsuya]

It sounds like he wants to build a portable Gameboy-type device.

[Xiaou2]

Hmm.. Maybe I think I see what you mean...

 The NES Advantage looks thin and light enough to hold in the hands...  with some modding.

 It looks like it needs about 1 to 2 inches depth cut off of it, to be grip compact, without losing ground stability.

 The shell top does not really look that friendly to making your own button layout...   So you might be better off finding a small plastic project box, and modifying that.   I dunno.  Plastics are a bit of a bear to work with, regarding strong joint connections.  Maybe you can epoxy putty some holes in, with additional use of some fiberglass tape.  Sand, then redrill in different areas, when fully cured.

  The joystick itself, is not that great...  But I guess its the compromise you will have to decide..  because a good mini joystick, will not exactly function like a d-pad.   The travel will probably be greater on the mirco-based sticks.. making a d-pad hack poor.   And adapting a stick to a dpad, may make the stick a very short throw.. with a mushy feel.

 You could possibly include both  dpad and minor-switch  assembly's, in one controller,  and yet have the bat part removable, If thats important.

 I believe the japanese joysticks are an optimal use for this, as they are quite shallow in depth.
Making the handle removable, would take some sort of shaft hack however,  and I cant fathom how that would easily be accomplished.
 

[Xiaou2]

It sounds like he wants to build a portable Gameboy-type device.

 Ahh.  I see.

[Xiaou2]

http://www.focusattack.com/jlf-link/

http://www.phreakmods.com/products/the-link

Might not be applicable... but heres an available detachable stick shaft

[ASilver76]

Yes, something portable is the goal. Something roughly the size and shape of a 3DS XL, only built expressly for MAME use. Six face buttons, one d-pad/joystick combo, and possibly some bumper buttons on the back. I was toying with the idea of a screen that could pivot or rotate as well for TATE games, but that's a bit beyond my skillset at this point. 

[Xiaou2]

3ds xl is  very thin, and super tiny.   

 Your better off using the standards dpad, possibly a mini analog,  and at best.. a bat that is no more than 1.5" in length... such as shown already in others pics.    Any shaft taller, and with more mass, will have too much leverage, and could tear the thing apart.

 Also, if it was laying flat for standard joystick operation , your very fist gripping the shaft / ball-top   would probably block a lot of the view of the tiny screen.

 Just some things to consider.


 For better help, start making so initial sketches.  Maybe even some foam carved shapes, as hand fitting prototypes.
(and or use some stiff clay, that can hold its shape well)

[ASilver76]

All good ideas, and very much appreciated. In regards to the 3DX XL size, I was referring only to overall dimensions, not thickness or weight. I do not have the skills to make anything that would precisely fit that form-factor as it stands. But something a little bit larger, a little bit thicker...that may be possible. In the end, the project may morph more into a bartop, both to provide more room to work with when it comes to internals, as well as more room for the control/button layout. But it that case, it would still be a mini, portable bartop - around the size of a gamecube. Something you could carry and pack, not lug.

[Phreakwars]

Myself, I've always wanted to see someone convert a Super NES Advantage into a portable MAME machine. Love to do it myself, but I don't have the eyesight it would take to do the soldering.

[vwalbridge]

Myself, I've always wanted to see someone convert a Super NES Advantage into a portable MAME machine. Love to do it myself, but I don't have the eyesight it would take to do the soldering.

Chance did it with his Super PlayChoice

He used the Intel NUC. Such a great little machine for an arcade. I used one too for my 3/4 scale DK.