Too many choices (cocktail build)

[Dirk2112]

I have read the FAQs and have read a ton of reviews on here and on the Neo Geo forum.  Anyway, I have always wanted an arcade machine and my wife is all for it, provided it is a cocktail table.  We know it takes up more room, but she loves cocktail arcade machines.  I think this will be a fun project, but there really are too many choices.  What system to use, what joysticks to use, # of buttons, how many players, screen orientation, etc etc.   After all the research I have done, I still don't exactly know what to do.  I know I don't want a spinner, a wheel, or a flight stick.

With all that said I want to play horizontally and her and my son want to play vertical games.   I think they would be fine playing vertical games horizontally, but I can't seem to find any cocktail tables for sale that are horizontal only.  If I had a horizontal only table, I would just have 2 8-way controllers, 16 buttons, and a track ball.  I realize Pac-man and Donkey Kong wouldn't play correctly with the 8 way sticks, but I hope it would be good enough for fun.  Does anyone know of a place that sells horizontal only cocktail tables?

I have researched JAMMA boards and Raspberry Pies and don't think either are great solutions.   The JAMMA boards are buggy and underpowered I am told and really only make sense if you have a JAMMA cabinet already wired (which I don't).  I think the best solution is a small PC.  I have seen mention of the Kangaroo, but haven't seen a review of it.  Has anyone tried using one of those?   A lot of people mention using an old junk PC, but I want to keep things as small and cool as possible. 

I have seen horizontal cocktail tables for sale with vertical ends as well.  Flipping back and forth for vertical games isn't really necessary, but I have yet to see a table that doesn't have controls at both ends.  If I were to go that route, I would think it made sense to have 4-way joysticks and 3 buttons on the vertical ends.  One vertical end could have a track ball.  The problem with this is I would need to get an IPAC 4 whereas with a horizontal only build, I could just get the joysticks that can control 8 buttons and hook them directly to a PC with USB.

One more tiny thing.  Having coin slots would give it that extra WOW factor.  I know it is silly, but can I get by with just 2 coin slots or would I need 4?  Is it safe to assume I can wire them so pressing them is like entering a token?

[mgb]

Hello Dirk and welcome to a great hobby,
 The choices can be a bit daunting but its a big part of the fun.

For the choices you're looking for I would say to maybe go for one of the cocktail kits that have vertical controls on the ends and horizontal controls on the long side.

You can design your own setup and really customize it to your needs. One idea may be to have a 4-way, two button control panel at one vertical end for classic 4-ways like pac man and donkey kong and you can have an 8-way, 3 button contrlol panel at the other vertical end for shoot 'em ups like Raiden and 1942 or maybe a Trackball control panel for Centipede and Millipede. and you can then have a dual 8-way, six button each control panel in the middle of the long side for fighters and beat 'em ups.

another option may be to have 8-way/4-way switchable sticks & 6 buttons at each vertical end and use a larger monitor so that verticals can played but so can horizontals by using Mame's cocktail mode which mirrors the horizontal game image for each player

heres an example


the best thing you can do for yourself is to figure out exactly what games are most important for you, your wife and kids to play and build the machine for that.

as far as the pc goes, if you're building a traditional cocktail table, then you can fit most anything for a pc in there. I think I saw something on the forum here about the Kangaroo but I haven't looked into it personally.

I'm currently building a slim cocktail (vertical only) and I'm using a laptop motherboard decased in order to save room.

Good luck with your project

keep reading and studying and keep asking questions.

[Phreakwars]

I'll throw this out there for you.. Try these guys, they have a great selection of cocktail/sit down type cabinets that might suit you.

http://www.recroommasters.com/Sit_Down_Arcade_Cabinets_s/69.htm

From what you are describing what you want, I think an Xtension Classic 4 Player cabinet might suit your needs. You can play both vertical and horizontal on it.

Otherwise, they do carry a nice selection of other sitdown/cocktail models to choose from.

EDIT: P.S. They can and will do a custom button hole drilling setup for you, if your looking to do a trackball/spinner.

[Dirk2112]

I saw the Xtension cabinets and if I go with a 3 sided table, that will work.  I have seen people on here with one horizontal side tables (2 player without vertical), but can't find them for sale.  I thought playing centipede on a horizontal monitor would be less offensive than playing TMNT on a vertical setup.

MGB's photo looks really good.  I guess playing SFII in that way isn't that bad.  I wish I could try it before committing to it.  I'm not sure if seeing the upside down playfield would be confusing or not when playing something like Contra.

If I do go vertical only, I think I'd need 6 buttons on both sides, with one side having a trackball, and the other having a 4 way stick.  That may be crammed.  I have read the 4/8 way sticks leave a lot to be desired.

Thanks for the responses!

[CheffoJeffo]

Welcome.

For the choices you're looking for I would say to maybe go for one of the cocktail kits that have vertical controls on the ends and horizontal controls on the long side.

You can design your own setup and really customize it to your needs. One idea may be to have a 4-way, two button control panel at one vertical end for classic 4-ways like pac man and donkey kong and you can have an 8-way, 3 button contrlol panel at the other vertical end for shoot 'em ups like Raiden and 1942 or maybe a Trackball control panel for Centipede and Millipede. and you can then have a dual 8-way, six button each control panel in the middle of the long side for fighters and beat 'em ups.

My first MAME box (may it now rest in piece) was a 3-sided cocktail -- best gameplay options for the buck. I was going to chastise  you for not caring about cocktail flipping, but mgb's suggestion of different controls on each of the vertical ends is better. I did 4-ways on the verticals with cocktail flipping and that was OK, but an 8-way would have been better. There weren't many options at the time for a trackball that would fit in the CP of the donor cab I used, so I never considered it. Also, you definitely don't need an iPac4 unless you want to wire the controls for each player -- vertical CP and horizontal CP -- to separate inputs (which can be a good idea, as anyone with joystick-yanking toddlers or drinking buddies can attest).

If you already have controls at the verticals, at least one horizontal side is available for controls: don't waste the real estate (CP and monitor) by not having a dedicated horizontal CP.

If you do (for some reason) decide to go with a horizontal-only, I would recommend studying the Joust cocktail cabinet as it is the most comfortable design to play, even for full-sized adults.

[mgb]

Good point on the joust cocktail.

Vertical flipping is nice but extra games are nice too.
On my current slim cocktail, I was originally planning just 4-ways with flipping but then I realized how nice it could be for Shmups and I scrapped the flipping so I can have one side for 4-way & one side for 8

[Dirk2112]

My first MAME box (may it now rest in piece) was a 3-sided cocktail -- best gameplay options for the buck. I was going to chastise  you for not caring about cocktail flipping, but mgb's suggestion of different controls on each of the vertical ends is better. I did 4-ways on the verticals with cocktail flipping and that was OK, but an 8-way would have been better. There weren't many options at the time for a trackball that would fit in the CP of the donor cab I used, so I never considered it. Also, you definitely don't need an iPac4 unless you want to wire the controls for each player -- vertical CP and horizontal CP -- to separate inputs (which can be a good idea, as anyone with joystick-yanking toddlers or drinking buddies can attest).

Ohhh so if I do go with the 3 sided table, I can wire the vertical inputs and the horizontal together on an Ipac2 ?  We would never play more than 2 players anyway. 

[mgb]

Yes, you can do that.
The only thing to be aware of is that's it's possible for you to be playing a game using one control and a spectator can hit the other controller that it's wired with and mess you up.

That may or may not be a problem for you but if so, you can throw some type of kill switch on the ground to the common controls

[CheffoJeffo]

Good point on the joust cocktail.

It was my grail cab. I slip it into conversation whenever I can. 

[mgb]

I have read the 4/8 way sticks leave a lot to be desired.

You have read correctly 

[JDFan]

 I think the best solution is a small PC.  I have seen mention of the Kangaroo, but haven't seen a review of it.  Has anyone tried using one of those?   A lot of people mention using an old junk PC, but I want to keep things as small and cool as possible. 

I added a bit of results on the Kangaroo performance HERE ( http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,148030.new.html#new ) - As long as you keep in mind the limitations imposed by the onboard graphics chip and sharing of the 2GB. of RAM between it and the system it is a good option for a lower budget build but does have it's limits.