Windows 7, 4350, have to plug lcd after reboot

[Kornerblok]

Hi all. I have a Windows 7 64bit OS, Radeon 4350, Jpac into jamma harness, Gm+crt_emudriver all installed. After running vmmaker (it only reports 19 mode lines btw) and choosing a 15khz 640x480i setting via arcadeosd, I then get a great picture on my arcade monitor after swapping cable from lcd monitor. No tearing....sweet!

However, when I reboot the pc, I don't get a 15khz picture on arcade and have to plug lcd back in, run arcadeosd once more, then swap cable back to arcade. It just won't stick between reboots. It's driving me nuts. I feel so close. I've done a bunch of hunting and I'm beginning to worry that win7 thinks, on boot, that no monitor is attached, and chooses some default display. I've heard about an edid dongle that can spoof the pc into thinking the monitor is attached. I'd rather avoid sticking another component in...any other tips or workarounds? Is the 4350 prone to this problem, or is it more of a win7 issue? I noticed someone resolved a near identical issue to mine, by going back to XP. Not an option for me. Thanks for reading.

[Calamity]

Use the DVI output.

[Kornerblok]

Hi Calamity, I am using the Dvi output. Got a Dvi-vga adaptor. I get a great picture when I boot with lcd then plug into the Jpac afterwards. It's when I shutdown and reboot, still connected to jpac, the setting is lost. I've got to plug lcd back in, then sometimes, if not always, go back to device manager and bring up your driver details again...otherwise arcadeosd won't show the low res settings. It's so close, but I'm in circles now.

[Calamity]

Download the latest VMMaker + Arcade OSD package from here: http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=65

(don't reinstall the driver! just grab the package and use the updated versions of VMMaker + Arcade OSD)

Then, when you set the desktop resolution from Arcade OSD, use  the "Set as default display mode" option.

If the mode doesn't persist after reboot, enter the Windows resolution options and select it from there (advanced->show all modes).

[Kornerblok]

Hi, got the very latest, got the 640x480i setting chosen via arcadeosd and Windows, but what happens is that when I reboot, plugged into the Jpac, the pc seems to have a problem recognising your driver, and chooses a 1240x768 display. The arcade screen is scrambled because it's not a 15khz signal. I then have to plug the lcd in, then, bizarrely it feels, bring up device manager, then the 4350 device, then click on the details tab. At that point, the resolution automatically switches to 640x480i ... simply by clicking the details tab of your device driver. I can then plug the vga into the jpac, and yeeha - a great arcade experience begins again. Until I reboot.      Appreciate your suggestions so far Calamity.

[Calamity]

Are you sure the system is running in "test mode"? You have to see this watermark:

[Kornerblok]

Yep, Test Mode watermark is there. Build number is either 7001 or 7601 (screen a little bit blurry down in that corner). I'm using your very latest software. Had never been installed before.

[Calamity]

When you say you have to plug the lcd monitor back in, are you doing this with the pc still on, right?

Also, did you uncheck the "Hide unsupported modes...." in the Windows display dialog?

It's clearly the unfamous monitor detection issue, because the monitor can't be detected through the jpac. However this is usually bypassed by using the default output (dvi).

Just to clarify, you must not let Windows detect the LCD on boot. You must boot with only the arcade monitor, or better, with no monitor! Then, once in Windows, plug the LCD to see what you're doing and apply the 15 kHz resolution. You then plug the arcade monitor in quickly because you only have a few seconds to accept. Then it should retain the settings at next boot.

[Kornerblok]

Correct, pc remains on when I do the cable swap. I'll check your unsupported modes suggestion and try and report back by this time tomorrow.

[Kornerblok]

Tested again and no joy. I already had unsupported modes ticked. Appears to be monitor detection issue. When I boot plugged into arcade, your driver is not being picked up correctly. I even jotted down the 20-odd key combinations to get to the details tab of your driver (running blind plugged into arcade) and it wouldn't work. When I plug the lcd back in, I could see why - the 30hz interlaced mode was not available. I can only get the 15khz signal on arcade by booting into lcd, the driver seems to launch properly then, and then I can swap cables and we are good. When testing today I can confirm it is Windows test mode build 7601. You know, I am so pleased with the quality of the arcade graphics - due to your software - that I am happy to swap cables. No tearing is just great, and the automatic resolution switching etc.

[Calamity]

The build number doesn't matter, I just posted that random picture to make sure you knew where to look at. Well, in my tests I am sure I got it to remember the desktop resolution even without a monitor attached, but I'm not sure what my steps were. If you feel confortable with soldering you can fix this by adding 75 ohm resistors between the rgb lines and ground of the vga cable, that will force monitor detection.

[Sledge]

I'm sure you must be doing something wrong... I can't remember what got mine to stay, but i had a hell of a time getting it to boot properly.. but then it just did... not sure what exactly it was that did it..

[cools]

Just to clarify, you must not let Windows detect the LCD on boot. You must boot with only the arcade monitor, or better, with no monitor! Then, once in Windows, plug the LCD to see what you're doing and apply the 15 kHz resolution.

Shove ArcadeOSD in the startup folder. Boot up, hit enter a few times. Plug in arcade monitor.

[big10p]

I had to make a cable with the resistors to make mine boot.

[Calamity]

Good news are I believe I have this annoying issue sorted out in the next version of the software, provided real life allows it to come out.

[CanadianRyGuy]

I seem to be having this issue as well. I think Calamity needs to stop being so helpful in answering people's questions so he can instead focus on getting the next version out  lol

[Calamity]

I seem to be having this issue as well. I think Calamity needs to stop being so helpful in answering people's questions so he can instead focus on getting the next version out  lol

Nevermind, this forum is not part of the real life 

[kortina]

+1

I am happy to test a new version of ArcadeOSD and VMM. I am having this issue.

Calamity: can I bribe you with beer?

[gcpowers]

Use the DVI output.

I was having the same issue and switching to the DVI with an adapter fixed the problem. Now I always reboot into the correct resolution. Unfortunately I seem to have broke something else. None of the games will start any more. I believe the correct resolution is no longer an option. What did I do wrong here? Sorry to hijack this thread.

[kortina]

Hi Guys,

I have attempted to make the 75ohm resister mod, but still not having any luck with detection. I have attached two pics of why I created (as you can see soldering is not a strong point).

I am no electronics whiz, but I measured the resistance at the screw down posts of the Ultimarc video amp, and it is reading 61ohms !?

Have I done something wrong?

[planexcvs]

Hi Guys,

I have attempted to make the 75ohm resister mod, but still not having any luck with detection. I have attached two pics of why I created (as you can see soldering is not a strong point).

I am no electronics whiz, but I measured the resistance at the screw down posts of the Ultimarc video amp, and it is reading 61ohms !?

Have I done something wrong?

You might want to try using the new CRT_Emudriver 2 beta without the resistors and see if the forced monitor detection works for you.

[kortina]

I tried it earlier today and did not have great luck with the driver, the 640x480 x 30i scrambled my screen.

If someone wants to give me some instructions, I will provide any logs etc to help the testing process.
Drivers installed OK. Set the super resolutions with vmmaker. Used ArcadeOSD to select 640x480@30i, switched to my arcade monitor (TV with Jomac chassis), but it must be out of range!?

[planexcvs]

I tried it earlier today and did not have great luck with the driver, the 640x480 x 30i scrambled my screen.

If someone wants to give me some instructions, I will provide any logs etc to help the testing process.
Drivers installed OK. Set the super resolutions with vmmaker. Used ArcadeOSD to select 640x480@30i, switched to my arcade monitor (TV with Jomac chassis), but it must be out of range!?

Oh no, I was hoping the monitor detection issue would be resolved. Hoping your situation is an edge case. By any chance are you using a J-PAC or ATOM-15 drivers with your setup?

[kortina]

No JPAC.

I am using ATOM-15 to protect the screen at startup.

I am using the DVI connector on the ATI-4350 (passive cooled), with a DVI-to-VGA adapter. VGA Cable into the Ultimarc video amp. Video amp to the custom 75ohm mod. 75ohm board to the RGB + Ground + sync for the Jomac Chassis.

I have successfully run the custom super resolutions and run them in the past with the previous gen drivers.

With the 2.0 beta it seems that none of the super resolutions are in sync correctly !? (including the primary 640x480@30i). Tried the default settings and Arcade_15.

[Calamity]

Don't panic, it works.

But in order to install CRT Emudriver 2.0 I recommend to flash the original bios back in the card, it makes things easier.

Use a pc monitor during the installation process. Once you install the driver, it may happen that the desktop moves to the other output (vga). No problem.

If you enter display properties you should see two monitors in there even if you only have 1 connected. That's the forced monitor detection thing.

Use the new VMMaker to generate and *install* the modes: you have separate icons for each step. You no longer need to reboot the machine after running VMMaker.

It may get a little tricky to target the right monitor in the first place, depending on your configuration. But once you get it, it won't get messed after rebooting.

Instead of switching monitor cables, the idea is to set a extended desktop and configure the arcade monitor on the second display. You can use arcade osd to set the right mode for the arcade monitor. Once you have it working, you can make the arcade monitor primary and remove the desktop from the pc monitor.

Finally, you can ATOM-15 the card again.

[kortina]

Hi Calamity,

I have reinstalled the 2.0 (beta2) drivers.
I have reverted the card to stock (non-ATOM15).

I can see that the forced monitor detection is working.

using vmmaker blind to try and select the 640x480@30i, but it doesnt seem to be right.

However previously I could use a 640x480 display on my arcade screen, now it rolls and appears out of sync. (see attached images).

[Calamity]

Have you created the modes already using VMMaker?

[kortina]

Yes.

and they appear in ArcadeOSD

[Calamity]

You need to target the secondary display from Arcade OSD.

[kortina]

I can successfully target the second display, and see the modelines (super) and desktop.

However, no matter what I pick, the display rolls. This was not the case with the older driver.

[Calamity]

The picture you posted is not from the secondary display. You need to "attach osd to current monitor".

[kortina]

here are the pics from the second display.

I dragged the dialog back to display1 so that I could read them.

This shows all of the generated modes.

Could it be something to do with the change in the "Generic_15" profile? (eg: change in formatting)

Code: [Select]

  _____ _____ _____     _           
 |  |  |     |     |___| |_ ___ ___
 |  |  | | | | | | | .'| '_| -_|  _|
  \___/|_|_|_|_|_|_|__,|_,_|___|_|   2.0 beta 2 by Calamity - 2008/2015

Processing config...

>>display_init \System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\{F10E37A1-21FF-487F-9946-17B7E603EF8F}\0000               
Listing display devices...
\\.\DISPLAY1 -  - No monitor - enabled - HKLM\REGISTRY\Machine\System\CONTROLSET001\SERVICES\VGASAVE\Device0
Device key not found. Defaulting to \\.\DISPLAY1

Getting driver information for \\.\DISPLAY1
ADL Library found, retrieving functions...
ADL functions retrieved successfully.
No compatible driver found.

>>modedb_build               
Creating mode list...
Importing video modes from custom list...

   31 video modes found

Generating dynamic mode table...
 16 redundant video modes found.

Reducing mode list...
 0 video modes dropped.

 15 modelines generated.

Exporting settings to mame.ini...
"640x480_60 15.69KHz 60.00Hz" 13.05 640 664 728 832 480 483 489 523 interlace -hsync -vsync
"2560x240_60 15.66KHz 60.00Hz" 52.12 2560 2664 2912 3328 240 242 245 261 -hsync -vsync
"2560x248_59 15.75KHz 58.77Hz" 52.42 2560 2664 2912 3328 248 249 252 268 -hsync -vsync
"2560x256_57 15.75KHz 57.07Hz" 52.42 2560 2664 2912 3328 256 257 260 276 -hsync -vsync
"2560x264_55 15.75KHz 55.46Hz" 52.42 2560 2664 2912 3328 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync
"2560x272_54 15.75KHz 53.94Hz" 52.42 2560 2664 2912 3328 272 273 276 292 -hsync -vsync
"2560x280_52 15.75KHz 52.50Hz" 52.42 2560 2664 2912 3328 280 281 284 300 -hsync -vsync
"2560x288_51 15.75KHz 51.14Hz" 52.42 2560 2664 2912 3328 288 289 292 308 -hsync -vsync
"2560x448_60 15.69KHz 60.00Hz" 52.22 2560 2664 2912 3328 448 467 473 523 interlace -hsync -vsync
"2560x464_60 15.69KHz 60.00Hz" 52.22 2560 2664 2912 3328 464 475 481 523 interlace -hsync -vsync
"2560x480_60 15.69KHz 60.00Hz" 52.22 2560 2664 2912 3328 480 483 489 523 interlace -hsync -vsync
"2560x496_59 15.78KHz 58.77Hz" 52.64 2560 2664 2912 3336 496 498 504 537 interlace -hsync -vsync
"2560x512_57 15.78KHz 57.07Hz" 52.64 2560 2664 2912 3336 512 514 520 553 interlace -hsync -vsync
"2560x544_54 15.78KHz 53.94Hz" 52.63 2560 2664 2912 3336 544 546 552 585 interlace -hsync -vsync
"2560x560_52 15.78KHz 52.50Hz" 52.63 2560 2664 2912 3336 560 562 568 601 interlace -hsync -vsync

[Calamity]

It should be working. I've done this succesfully a hundred time these past days with my HD4350. Even with the secondary cable unplugged to simulate worst case conditions.

Have you tried applying settings after a restart? Is your other monitor a crt or lcd?

I'm wondering if the fact that I'm using a pc crt monitor during installation could make any difference. One thing I'd try is, apply settings to the arcade monitor, even if it rolls, then restart removing the lcd so it boots without the lcd.

It'd be interesting to plug the lcd to the other output, in case it has a decent osd, it will tell you that frequency that's being output.

[kortina]

Hi Calamity (and thank you for all of your time on this),

I have tried the settings after a restart, no change.
My other monitor is a little Dell 15" (4:3) LCD - with 1024x768 native, however it will take 640x480@60 and 800x600@60

More info:

I removed and reinstalled the 2.0beta drivers. The second (arcade) monitor starts in 640x480@30i without issue! (weird).

Once running VMMaker (2.0beta) and adding the modes, selecting them causes the screen to roll.

I removed and reinstalled again.
This time I used the old VMM (1.4b), and generated the modes (yeah I know probably not a fantastic idea). The modes were all created
Now I can select them using ArcadeOSD (1.4) and the screen is fine.

Issue now is that when I start GroovyMAME-169 and try a game (mk2 is my test), the screen rolls like the desktop did before!?

to try and describe the "roll" it is like every row has the horizontal hold out, so you can kind of make out the pic but none of the line are in their correct spot or holding.

[Calamity]

It'd be interesting to plug the lcd to the other output, in case it has a decent osd, it will tell you that frequency that's being output.

[kortina]

Unfortunately the screen just shows "out of range" and the on screen display controls are disabled

Running GroovyMAME-168 is OK!

I currently have a working hybrid setup:
CRT drivers = 2.0beta
VMM = 1.4b
ArcadeOSD = 1.4b
GroovyMAME = 168

[Calamity]

Unfortunately the screen just shows "out of range" and the on screen display controls are disabled

Yes. I suspect the new versions of the tools and GM are simply outputting with a different sync polarity, and your arcade monitor needs to be adjusted for this.

Believe it or not, this change was required to fix the half refresh issue for interlaced games in W7.

[kortina]

Thanks Calamity,

Any ideas on how I would change the sync polarity?

My monitor is a old TV (61cm) converted with a Jomac chassis. Should I just call Jomac?

[kortina]

Further inspection... I have a Sharp Image 727-DS as the Chassis.

This repair guide: http://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-monitors/Sharp%20Image%20SI727RDS%20Monitor%20Repair%20Guide.pdf suggests that:

Monitor accepts composite negative sync only

Do I have any options left?

[Calamity]

It's the Jomac chassis where you should be looking at. There must be some sort of jumper, switch, etc.

Anyway that would be a partial solution, because ATOM-15 will be using the opposite polarity 

I could make the new settings of VMMaker optional, but that will bring back the old problem of halved refresh rates 

EDIT: In my case, I don't have issues with this because I use either a JPAC or an UMSA which manage sync polarities.