Newbie: How does this controller setup sound?

[vaderag]

So, i'm planning my first build - a 2 player controller that is adaptable to multiple uses.
Long term, i plan to transfer the components to a full cabinet, but i just dont have the space for that at the moment, so this is my stop gap (but will be going as quality as possible!)

My planned purchases are:
2x ServoStik (red ball top) + 1x control board
16 x Ultralux Two Tone Translucent Illuminated Pushbuttons (RGB White with 500mm wiring) - 8 for each player
Player 1 & 2 buttons
iPac2 interface
U-Trak Trackball (Pearl) + bezel
PacLED64
2 x GoldLeaf Buttons (for pinball flippers on side)
1 x GoldLeaf Button (for Shift control on back side)
1 x Goldleaf Button (for switching mode on ServoStik)


So... what do people think?

My biggest concern is really with the buttons and sticks - I've read good things about both, but never used them myself... I used to have the Street Fighter IV Tournament Edition fight stick with used Sanwa buttons and I really liked those - does anyone know how the Ultralux compare? I'm mostly going for them because of the simplicity of wiring the LED's - having buttons light depending on usage is key to me, and is also why i'm going white with RGB so i can adjust colour based on emulator...

Really interested to hear what people think!
Thanks

[Token]

Coin buttons?

[vaderag]

Coin buttons?

Ah yeah - good point!! (when i build my full size machine i want a coin slot, but i'll need them for now)
Alternatively, i guess i could set shift and the player button to be coin...


Thanks

[Token]

If you add two coin buttons to what you've listed above, you are right at 32 outputs, which is the limit for the I-Pac2.

Yeah, if you plan on incorporating this into a cab with a functioning coin door, then go with shifted coin buttons.

[harveybirdman]

LED's are pointless unless you want to show the active buttons on a per game basis, money is better spent elsewhere like I don't know, Plywood or MDF for your actual cab.

How many buttons per player?  There is no need for more than 6 unless you intend to have console/steam/PC support, which IMO doesn't belong in an "Arcade" Cabinet.

There's nothing wrong with switchable joys, in fact they are so much better than dedicated four ways, however what are you thinking for monitor? I mean many of the four way classics play best with a vertical monitor and a mechanically restricted 4-way in the center of the CP.  I think based on your description you might be trying to shove too much functionality into one machine (for my taste at least, many others will disagree so take it for what it's worth)

[vaderag]

LED's are pointless unless you want to show the active buttons on a per game basis, money is better spent elsewhere like I don't know, Plywood or MDF for your actual cab.

That's exactly what i want to do - having used my friends X-Arcade recently we spent half the time trying to work out which button did what, so LEDs seems the best solution to me

How many buttons per player?  There is no need for more than 6 unless you intend to have console/steam/PC support, which IMO doesn't belong in an "Arcade" Cabinet.

I was planning 8 per player. My old street fighter stick had this (with 2 used as Turbo) and as you say, it makes it the most versatile... as mentioned above i'm building (at least initially) a controller, so it's plausible it will be used for console as well

There's nothing wrong with switchable joys, in fact they are so much better than dedicated four ways, however what are you thinking for monitor? I mean many of the four way classics play best with a vertical monitor and a mechanically restricted 4-way in the center of the CP.  I think based on your description you might be trying to shove too much functionality into one machine (for my taste at least, many others will disagree so take it for what it's worth)

At least initially my monitor will be my TV and/or PC monitor. Plan for the long term - (i.e. 5years from now when i have a bigger house) is to use what i've already bought and put it into a cab. I havent thought much about what the screen will be on that, but probably LCD
Either way, in this build and final they will be on the Left hand side of the buttons, not in the centre, but i dont really see that as an issue - it's still better than playing PacMan on my Xbox controller


Appreciate the feedback

[harveybirdman]

Sounds like you've thought it through, good luck with your build.

[vaderag]

Sounds like you've thought it through, good luck with your build.

Hope so! That was certainly my intention!!

But looking for any thoughts and feeback incase there is something i missed (like coin buttons!!) and any thoughts on alternates to the above

[vwalbridge]

and any thoughts on alternates to the above

Just build the entire cab that you ultimately want to have anyway? 

Trust me on this. If you even have the slightest inclination that you want to take parts from whatever you are building now and make it a real cab later...then just build the whole thing now. Your future self will be thanking you.

[vaderag]

and any thoughts on alternates to the above

Just build the entire cab that you ultimately want to have anyway? 

Trust me on this. If you even have the slightest inclination that you want to take parts from whatever you are building now and make it a real cab later...then just build the whole thing now. Your future self will be thanking you.

Ah, i'd love to... really i would. The wife won't allow it in the current space tho unfortuantely Need to wait till i have room for a 'man roon'!!

[vwalbridge]

and any thoughts on alternates to the above

Just build the entire cab that you ultimately want to have anyway? 

Trust me on this. If you even have the slightest inclination that you want to take parts from whatever you are building now and make it a real cab later...then just build the whole thing now. Your future self will be thanking you.

Ah, i'd love to... really i would. The wife won't allow it in the current space tho unfortuantely Need to wait till i have room for a 'man roon'!!

I see. Best of luck on your build. You might find this thread interesting.

[Yenome]

and any thoughts on alternates to the above

Just build the entire cab that you ultimately want to have anyway? 

Trust me on this. If you even have the slightest inclination that you want to take parts from whatever you are building now and make it a real cab later...then just build the whole thing now. Your future self will be thanking you.

Ah, i'd love to... really i would. The wife won't allow it in the current space tho unfortuantely Need to wait till i have room for a 'man roon'!!

I see. Best of luck on your build. You might find this thread interesting.

As soon as i read wife wont allow i was like next post is gonna be about spouse approval 

My question for you is why 8 buttons per player? I my self used to think 8 was needed then i remembered i was building an arcade cab and didnt want any console games on it. least none that required more than 6.
if you go with 6 per player then you have your coin buttons.

If your having issues with the x-arcade key setup they have the listed default config on their website. i have found it works fine for every thing except mortal kombat and neo geo games. i prefer the neogeo home console button layout as opposed to the arcade. first below is default 6 button layout second is neogeo console controller layout.

123  34*
456  12*

[DeLuSioNal29]

Save yourself some money and only get 1 servo stick for player 1, you really only need 1.  Then get a matching Sanwa JLF for player 2.  Most 4 way games use the same joystick for players 1 and 2 (they take turns).  Having 2 is overkill IMHO.

D

[vaderag]

Save yourself some money and only get 1 servo stick for player 1, you really only need 1.  Then get a matching Sanwa JLF for player 2.  Most 4 way games use the same joystick for players 1 and 2 (they take turns).  Having 2 is overkill IMHO.

D

This is a really great point that i hadn't thought of, and you're totally right Thank you!!

[vaderag]

My question for you is why 8 buttons per player? I my self used to think 8 was needed then i remembered i was building an arcade cab and didnt want any console games on it. least none that required more than 6.
if you go with 6 per player then you have your coin buttons.

Well, i plan to be arcade+ but am definitely open to pursuasion... I just want to be ready for anything and I see lots of people using 8 so i guess the logical question is, a) are there any mame games that use more than 6? b) what consoles would i need more than 6 for?

Thanks!

[jeremymtc]

I would suggest using the pinball flipper buttons as your coin buttons. You can always use a different pair of buttons for coin in Pinball software.

[Yenome]

My question for you is why 8 buttons per player? I my self used to think 8 was needed then i remembered i was building an arcade cab and didnt want any console games on it. least none that required more than 6.
if you go with 6 per player then you have your coin buttons.

Well, i plan to be arcade+ but am definitely open to pursuasion... I just want to be ready for anything and I see lots of people using 8 so i guess the logical question is, a) are there any mame games that use more than 6? b) what consoles would i need more than 6 for?

Thanks!

I have restricted my list to no more than 6. I cant think of a single game that does use more than 6 unless its some gambling or mahjong. far as outside arcade games go the first consoles you will hit with more than 6 buttons is the xbox and psx. which have a lot of great arcade ports and some good arcadish games. To me fighters come to mind first heck, even Mortal Kombat X only requires 5 buttons to play. personally i would go with 2 sticks 6 buttons ea, 2 flipper buttons, two start, two coin that puts you at 26 which still leaves you 6 inputs for Admin buttons if you want those. I like using the keyboard or shift keys for admin work. So i would say unless you got plans to play Final Fantasy 8 on your cabinet consider only going with 6 ea. Make a list of the top 100 or so games you must play and get the controls for them. for me this meant 2 8 way sticks and 6 buttons since i have to have my MK And KI.

Also rereading your OP does the trackball buttons plug into the ipac if so the 6 button setup would allow you to use dedicated buttons for it.

[vwalbridge]

Make a list of the top 100 or so games you must play and get the controls for them.

+1 This should be step numero uno on every build for MANY different reasons.

[vaderag]

My question for you is why 8 buttons per player? I my self used to think 8 was needed then i remembered i was building an arcade cab and didnt want any console games on it. least none that required more than 6.
if you go with 6 per player then you have your coin buttons.

Well, i plan to be arcade+ but am definitely open to pursuasion... I just want to be ready for anything and I see lots of people using 8 so i guess the logical question is, a) are there any mame games that use more than 6? b) what consoles would i need more than 6 for?

Thanks!

I have restricted my list to no more than 6. I cant think of a single game that does use more than 6 unless its some gambling or mahjong. far as outside arcade games go the first consoles you will hit with more than 6 buttons is the xbox and psx. which have a lot of great arcade ports and some good arcadish games. To me fighters come to mind first heck, even Mortal Kombat X only requires 5 buttons to play. personally i would go with 2 sticks 6 buttons ea, 2 flipper buttons, two start, two coin that puts you at 26 which still leaves you 6 inputs for Admin buttons if you want those. I like using the keyboard or shift keys for admin work. So i would say unless you got plans to play Final Fantasy 8 on your cabinet consider only going with 6 ea. Make a list of the top 100 or so games you must play and get the controls for them. for me this meant 2 8 way sticks and 6 buttons since i have to have my MK And KI.

Also rereading your OP does the trackball buttons plug into the ipac if so the 6 button setup would allow you to use dedicated buttons for it.

Thanks, you might be right - think I'll do some more research down that line and see whether anything I'm likely to play will use that many... I'm certainly not planning to emulate xbox!

Not planning on admin buttons as figure I can use shift to stop the kid messing things up as she gets bigger!

Re. Trackball, yes, plugs into ipac - what's the benefit of having dedicated buttons? Just to use as a mouse for admin tasks??

[vaderag]

You're all totally right - after looking through the mame list there is nothing with 7 or 8 buttons I'm bothered about. I'm gonna shift one of them to a coin button for each player and stick with 6

Out of interest, why does the x arcade and so many builds i see have 7 buttons?

Edit: Just realised, neo geo needs the 7th button for the layout to be right...

[Yenome]

You're all totally right - after looking through the mame list there is nothing with 7 or 8 buttons I'm bothered about. I'm gonna shift one of them to a coin button for each player and stick with 6

Out of interest, why does the x arcade and so many builds i see have 7 buttons?

Edit: Just realised, neo geo needs the 7th button for the layout to be right...

for neogeo and mk run button is what else the 7th is used for. i my self was a fan of the 7th button till i seen the neogeo home console controllers layout then i realized i could just copy it. but no not any real advantage to have dedicated buttons for the track ball. some people just like having two to work as mouse buttons.

[vaderag]

What are people using for 'coin' buttons - just blank?
I can find buttons with P1 P2 on but not coin

[DeLuSioNal29]

Usually people get vinyl decals (check out the retail vendors section).  Others simply use a green button without anything on it (color of money).  Last but not least, some people mount NovaGems below to have a more "coin door" feel: http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=295&zenid=3bv5odhur3p65djoim3c8pqec7

[vaderag]

Usually people get vinyl decals (check out the retail vendors section).  Others simply use a green button without anything on it (color of money).  Last but not least, some people mount NovaGems below to have a more "coin door" feel: http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=295&zenid=3bv5odhur3p65djoim3c8pqec7

Thanks!

I had actually just decided to use two Sanwa blue buttons, mostly because the colour scheme works better than green with the Red ball tops I'm using (IMO). I plan to double them up as the mouse buttons with the trackball too, so think that works well...

This is likely answered elsewhere, but I presume that the Utrak plugged into the IPAC works as a standard mouse? They do a separate USB option, so just wondering whether it only works that way with that...

Cheers

[vaderag]

Good news!

I've managed to persuade my wife to let me build the cabinet!!!

Now... ideally i'd like to source an original unworking cab that I can refurb, but trying to find one around here in the UK is like gold dust... anyone any ideas?

Failing that i'm thinking of something like this: http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Super-Easy-Arcade-Machine-from-1-Sheet-of-Plywoo/?ALLSTEPS
But am a bit worried given the smaller size it might be a bit unstable...


The other question I have is, what spec of PC do I need? I have a pretty old one upstairs which i used to run Mame on, but I hear that the frontends are pretty hungry (it looks like Hyperspin is the way to go here, although was also going to look at Maximus Arcade)

[Milky]

You may want to check out this thread  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133968.0.html  I actually just bought one from him myself, and they're a great deal.  I don't know exactly what you're wanting to run game-wise, but I read through that thread pretty much all the way through and there are a lot of people saying it runs the mame games pretty darn well.

[yamatetsu]

Failing that i'm thinking of something like this: http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Super-Easy-Arcade-Machine-from-1-Sheet-of-Plywoo/?ALLSTEPS
But am a bit worried given the smaller size it might be a bit unstable...

That is a solid design. The guy who made that instructable actually is a member in this forum (goes by the name of "Vigo"), since he posted his build log here (Vigolix, a super easy mini cab on 1 sheet of 2X4 plywood), many people have built their version of it. As far as I know, no-one has complained about the stability.


You might take a look at the I completed my project! I posted a pic and a link to my project thread sticky, there are three Vigolix cabs posted there including the links to the build threads. Perhaps looking at those will help you decide building one.

[vaderag]

Failing that i'm thinking of something like this: http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Super-Easy-Arcade-Machine-from-1-Sheet-of-Plywoo/?ALLSTEPS
But am a bit worried given the smaller size it might be a bit unstable...

That is a solid design. The guy who made that instructable actually is a member in this forum (goes by the name of "Vigo"), since he posted his build log here (Vigolix, a super easy mini cab on 1 sheet of 2X4 plywood), many people have built their version of it. As far as I know, no-one has complained about the stability.


You might take a look at the I completed my project! I posted a pic and a link to my project thread sticky, there are three Vigolix cabs posted there including the links to the build threads. Perhaps looking at those will help you decide building one.

Thanks - really useful thread.
Ideally id still like to find a genuine original in need of some tlc, but backup is something like this I think!

[vaderag]

So, managed to hunt down a couple of old cabs... Midway Omegarace without any plexi probably being the most tempting right now, for ~£120 delivered. Thinking it might be a bit too much for what it is though really as for that I can probably build my own and get the new vinyls etc and make it take up less space... so, think i'm leaning towards the self build option...

[yamatetsu]

Another option for building a cab from scratch would be lokesen's Taitorama (http://koenigs.dk/mame/eng/steptaitorama.htm), which looks like a slim version of a Taito cab. Downloadable detailed plans with measurements in mm and a step by step guide. The shape looks like this :

[vaderag]

I really the look of that, but (and this may be totally unfounded) it looks like playing with two might be a little tight due to everything being set between the walls? From that pic, P1 stick looks esp cramped

[yamatetsu]

That's just the perspective.



Two players will be standing shoulder to shoulder, but it works. We had 4 hour sessions without complaints 

It would be no problem to make it wider, just add 5 or 10 cm to the front and back parts.

[vaderag]

Thanks - that clears that up
I'll add it to the list of cab designs I'm considering...

[vaderag]

So, i'm getting seriously into the design of this build now - i'm going to be using the Ond Metropolis for a base - and i'm just thinking about materials.
I've seen some differing materials going around - mostly MDF, but some people have used melamine covered MDF.

I'm not very good at, and don't really enjoy painting, but ultimately want the best finish for my cab... what are the pro's and cons with going for the melamine covering?

[vwalbridge]

what are the pro's and cons with going for the melamine covering?

PROs:

- Surface does not require paint

CONs:

- It can will chip on the edges when you cut it
- It can be difficult to screw pieces into each other because you will have finished-sides against non-finished sides.


(I'm not a fan of melamine at all. If you damage it, good luck repairing the surface. )

I'd do Plywood or MDF. Some people like to hate on MDF but I find it just fine to work with.

[vaderag]

what are the pro's and cons with going for the melamine covering?

PROs:

- Surface does not require paint

CONs:

- It can will chip on the edges when you cut it
- It can be difficult to screw pieces into each other because you will have finished-sides against non-finished sides.


(I'm not a fan of melamine at all. If you damage it, good luck repairing the surface. )

I'd do Plywood or MDF. Some people like to hate on MDF but I find it just fine to work with.

Thanks, that's pretty much the way I was leaning...
Why do people hate on mdf?

[vwalbridge]

Why do people hate on mdf?

MDF is heavier than Plywood. (some people might actually find this as a good thing)

MDF will swell if it gets wet. (this can be a problem for flood-prone or moisture-prone areas)

MDF dust is pretty nasty. This is probably generates the most hate for MDF. The dust is really fine and can be toxic if you inhale a bunch of it. However, if you wear a mask and cut outside, you'll be fine.

I personally like MDF because the surface is typically easy to paint. Just a couple coats of oil-based primer, sand that smooth and then paint. It doesn't ever splinter, but might crack if you don't pre-drill. It cuts really easy with a router and sands easy too. Holds fantastically well with just wood glue and finish nails. If the project is small enough, sometime just wood glue will work. MDF is also less expensive.

[harveybirdman]

Dust

Susceptibility to water damage

Weight


dang great minds, vwall already answered before I could hit submit.

[vaderag]

Cheers guys. I've worked with mdf before so know what to expect from cutting etc never painted so was concerned that may be an issue... Weight is a good thing in my mind as its cheaper

Sourced a 4:3 21" LCD today after seeing someone else's widescreen build and hating it. This is happening!!

[vaderag]

I'm still wavering on the monitor as i'm looking for something a bit bigger...

I notice from the original plan for OND design the width of the bezel area is 24" so we would need to restrain it within that or expand (which shouldnt be too tricky). That said, to get significantly more real estate i'd need to be looking at a 28" screen minimum, ideally a bit bigger (tho cost wise if I were going bigger it would probably make sense to jump to a 32" TV which seems too big...)

So... has anyone built a cab with a 32" TV?
I worry it'll look naff and maybe I should just go with the Sammy

Thoughts?