cheap and quiet thread (again)

[brihyn]

I know this topic has been discussed a lot, but hoping some new ideas can be brought forward.

Laying in bed last night trying to fall asleep after a 3am work page, I started working through some plans for the new man cave. The barn includes a separate room to build a mini-arcade in, with plans to do something like the Out of Wall Space thread http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141265.msg1461909.html#msg1461909

The question I started asking myself was...what would be the cheapest and quietest hardware to use on these? I know the originals were built primarily with Pi's, and the games I want to do (Gyruss, QBert, and probably Nintendo classics) would work fine, but is that the cheapest route?

Solutions that could work

An old pc that doesn't need as much cooling (think p3 or older? maybe much older, like a 486?) problem- The really old pc's really aren't readily available anymore.
RasPi.  Problem- when you figure in the full cost (pi, an adapter to vga, SD card, etc), price begins to add up to the price of a pc-based solution
An old console...Xbox 1st gen, ps2, something else? could wire directly to the controller to reduce price down, and they can be had for super cheap. Can they be modified to play single/small subset of games easily enough?

What other out-of-the-box ideas might there be? I'm a tightwad, and I want a quiet solution as well.

[vwalbridge]

See THIS thread covering the Kangaroo PC.

It really doesn't get much cheaper than that. Unless you go the Pi route but that is a whole different animal.

[brihyn]

I do agree, for new, that's a pretty great price.

I guess I wasn't very clear in what I was trying to solve...
I really want to balance quiet/cool running with price, and considering that I want to run fairly old games, we can get pretty cheap.

I frequent one of the local Goodwill Goodbytes electronics stores...an incredible store at that.  They have in stock a shelf full of "as-is" pc's that come with 1G of ram, no HD, and depending on the "color of the week" and the pc's price tag's color, they can be had for as little as 20$ sometimes. 
To me, the problem is actually that they're typically "too powerful", and thus requiring more cooling than something like a 486, p1/2 would need. These pc's are typically duo-core and faster.
At the same time, they also typically have 1st gen Xboxes and ps2's, both typically around the $20 area...and with these as an option, one could simply wire to the controller, negating the need for even a cheap Kade.

So, if you were going that bottom-basement pricing, what would you go for? a cheap pc that's going to need some level of cooling (especially in a small cabinet like the Out of Wall Space designs), a Pi that's going to need additional costs such as hdmi-vga adapter, SD card, and the management/risk of corruption that brings?  An older console? something I'm not even thinking of?

I've picked up a few of the Namco 5/1 6/1 game devices for just a couple of bucks, and they even offer an interesting option to this as well (I'm about halfway through building a small desktop cabinet out of one currently).

[vwalbridge]

So if I understand you correctly, you want a full computer for around $20?

Sure that is possible, people are always tossing old computers to the curb but what you are asking for really isn't possible. You can't really balance quite/cool with price. An old computer for $20 is going to typically require 3 fans:

1. Power supply fan
2. CPU fan
3. Exhaust fan

All 3 of those are going to product some level of audible noise....no matter how quiet they are. Not to mention how much heat an older computer is going to produce. Hence the 3 fans in the first place.

You can get in Intel stick, Kangaroo, and some used Intel NUCs for about $100 and I think that is already CRAZY cheap considering they can come bundled with Windows. Hell, at that price they are practically giving it away.

Also, a $20 computer is typically going to take up a significant amount of cubic inches. Space you don't have in a wall-mounted cab. Hence the reason for the Intel stick, kangaroo, or NUC.

As the old saying goes: "If you are on the fence over $100, you are in the wrong hobby"

[brihyn]

I think it's the opposite. Do I *need* a full pc for 20? if I'm only spending 20ish anyway, what other cheap options can people dream up? my problem with pc's is really the cooling, but they offer other great benefits (ease of setup, ease of connecting to cheap vga monitors, etc)

[brihyn]

As the old saying goes: "If you are on the fence over $100, you are in the wrong hobby"

and that's a fair quote. My problem is definitely not a 100$ pc. It's that I want a room of these things.

[JDFan]

Lots of options and each has it's own advantages/disadvantages. So really depends on the situation - the budget and the game selection you want to have. 

Then once you decide on the option to take - something new will show up like the kangaroo mentioned above ( newer CPU and improved GPU chip should allow better performance - and the new chips only use about 2W of power so cooling isn't really an issue since there isn't much excess power to dissipate. ) and by the time you evaluate that option something else will be on the horizon or the price of something else will have dropped making it a decent option also.

So at some point you just have to take the leap and commit to something and start building.

Besides when you really get going you'll find the main cost is the controls not the PC or other alternative it runs on !!

[brihyn]

definitely agree on the pc being the smallest cost, I feel better about what I'm building.
Would love to find a Namco game type device that had qbert on it...that'd be a nice simple toy to use.

[vwalbridge]

My problem is definitely not a 100$ pc. It's that I want a room of these things.

I think you just answered your own question. You want volume over quality.

If it were me, I'd focus on getting just ONE of them done first. You will learn from the first one and the subsequent 9 you do will be better for it. You are trying to build all 10 right now and if you make a mistake, you are going to make it 10 times. Not to mention the cost of building 10 simultaneously.

And conversely, because you need the budget for all 10, then each one's budget suffers individually.

I'm the same way, I want to find the best AND cheapest option all the time. But what I have found is that I can actually end up spending more time and more money in the long run.

Why?

Because whatever you end up saving on the computer, you are going to have to pay later to make it work. Just like you said with the Pi needing additional cost to make it work.

[SavannahLion]

Just so you're aware. PC's from about the late 90's and forward seem to have a shorter life than pre 90's era tech due to a bad batch of caps that hit the market. I picked up a PC built in 2000 that turned out to have every cap shot to hell. My PC's from pre 98 still work well.  You can learn more here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

My point, if it's post 97, get as new as possible or shell out for the best quality you can find. Otherwise look for pre-97 machines.

[brihyn]

you say "plague" like it's a bad thing. It's actually allowed me to pick up several great TV's for dirt cheap, and fix for nothing more than a few caps!
In fact, it's because of this plague that I'm slowly collecting other parts for a vpin

[bertman77]

What about a cheap android tablet that you can use HDMI out, and usb in for the controller?

something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/ValuePad-Bluetooth-Pre-loaded-MultiTouch-ValueChain/dp/B00H9XDCJC

To get the controls to work may take a bit of magic, but i'm sure it can be done.

[Grasshopper]

A PC is obviously the cheapest option. Perfectly capable old PCs are being given away all the time, and you can't get cheaper than free. But they are undeniably clunky and noisy.

Of the other options, I'd still say that the Raspberry Pi is the cheapest. Bear in mind that with the RPi you have the option of connecting the joystick and buttons directly to the GPIO pins, and therefore avoid having to buy an I-Pac or equivalent. And if someone seriously believes that a VGA adapter, SD card, and PSU will add significantly to the cost, then they're looking in the wrong places.

[SavannahLion]

you say "plague" like it's a bad thing. It's actually allowed me to pick up several great TV's for dirt cheap, and fix for nothing more than a few caps!
In fact, it's because of this plague that I'm slowly collecting other parts for a vpin

If you know how to repair a TV by replacing the caps, then surely you must know how to silence the same equipment? Water or mineral oil based systems come immediately to mind. Placement of the fan and careful baffling comes to mind as well. I once used a 500cfm fan and cut its speed down to by about 1/2 to reduce the noise. Alternatively, just turn up the music. Most gamers won't notice anyways.

If the noise is that bothersome, there are all sorts of tricks.