2-player bartop for grandson questions...

[BorgDog]

hey guys and gals,

i haven't been around much, got sucked into virtual pinball world and have been living there for a while, but i'm back to build a bartop for my grandson's upcoming 12th birthday next month.  I'm using a lot of pieces i have around including a 17" monitor, 2 zippyy joysticks, and buttons, many buttons. 

My grandson has spent a fair amount of time playing on MY Arcade, and seemed to enjoy all the classics as much as anyone, but I wanted to set him up 2-player so he and his little buddies could play together.  So I guess my questions start with how many buttons do I need?  I still want to keep with older games, but wouldn't mind some older fighters (don't even know what those games are actually).  Le Chuck designed a second cp for his Darkade that was 2 player 4 buttons each, that looked pretty awesome, but I don't even know what games that allows you to play and what that eliminates?  Again bearing in mind I'm only using a 17" 1280x1024 display so control panel will at most be 18-20 inches wide.

Then the buttons with dictate the games.  I'm anti-social so generally only play 1 player games, so am not familiar with most 2 player.  What is a good selection for a 12 year old and his buddies to play?

Ideas, thoughts, similar projects to look at?

Thanks,
Dan

[Slippyblade]

If he wants to do fighting games, you want 6 buttons per player.  Street Fighter pretty much defined the genre and that means 6 buttons.

[BorgDog]

I haven't asked him, since he doesn't know he's getting it, but I would guess he and his friends would probably enjoy some fighting action.  So 6 buttons each it will be.  Then comes the layout, looking at slagcoin they do not recommend the standard american street fighter layout so... I'm thinking either of these two minus the right buttons, since i don't play any of these games I'm looking for people with experience to guide.  then the question is can I realistically fit those into an 18-20" wide cp?  Might have to lose some space between joystick and buttons.

[harveybirdman]

Wow...

You have a 12 year old grandson? The picture I had of you in my head was WAY off.


I really like the Astro City button layout, it should work fine, my MAME panel is 22 inches I think and there is plenty of room.

[BorgDog]

LOL, well he's not 12 till next month!

I just did a printout of one players worth with the buttons moved an inch closer to the joystick and I think it should fit fine.

now for a game list!  give me your favorites everyone, I don't want to load up several hundred games, just the best ones, can always add more later.  Street Fighter is evidently on the list.

[Slippyblade]

Since you are doing a 6 button layout... 

Street Fighter - you already got this. 
Marvel v Capcom
Xmen v Street Fighter

(EDIT) Can't believe I forgot Darkstalkers!  Sheesh, I'm slipping.

Honestly, the Dungeons & Dragons games are two of my faves from the arcade.
Tower of Doom
Shadows of Mysteria

Classics of course
Pac-Man
Donkey Kong
Galaga

There are several threads over the years trying to build "Best of" lists.  How many games you planning on loading?

[harveybirdman]

They like fighting games?  CHD games okay?

[BorgDog]

I figure probably 2-3 dozen to start with I guess.  Aren't some of the shmups 2 player simultaneous as well?  Raiden for example? although that's a vertical game and I'm going horizontal monitor (no I am not doing another rotatable monitor, I keep saying to myself need something more durable). 

definitely loading some of the classics

CHD games would be Ok.

Thanks for the list Slippy

[harveybirdman]

There are plenty of BADASS vertical SHMUPS you can play horizontal.

1944 The Loop Master
GigaWing
Mars Matrix
All of the Aero Fighters except 1 and Special


Also if they like fighting games then

Last Blade (1 & 2)
Jojo's bizarre adventure (CHD needs the Japanese parent ROM)
Street Fighter III 3rd Strike (CHD)

[thomas_surles]

when I was 12 mortal kombat was my favorite. That is if you are ok with a little blood and fire for a 12 year old.

[BorgDog]

when I was 12 mortal kombat was my favorite. That is if you are ok with a little blood and fire for a 12 year old.

Well, he spends a fair amount of time playing Call of Duty on his PS, so it's probably OK 

[BorgDog]

So another question, I've not had much 2 player experience, but I see a lot of 2-4 player CPs that have a coin button for each player.  Do I need to add one of those for each player, or does just one coin button work for all (for those games I can't just set to free play that is)?  I'm looking at doing just 1 Player, 2 Player, Coin for "admin" buttons, and use P1+P2 for Exit.

[opt2not]

You could bind coin1 + P1-start, and coin2 +P2-start to the same buttons in Mame. I'm not sure if this introduces any problems, especially with the older games, but I've assigned Mame like this before and it seemed to work out pretty well.

As for buttons, 6-per would err on the side caution. I highly doubt 12 year olds now-a-days are into the intricacies of fighting games, so it would most likely be a fun mashing romp for them. But giving them that option would probably be best, in case later on he wants to get into fighters more seriously.

edit:   Nevermind... 12 year olds could very well be big into fighters:
http://youtu.be/TJU8u10FhM0?t=1m41s

LOL "Stop it! He's just a boy!!"

[BorgDog]

So would really just need 2 buttons then is what you're saying.  I like the sounds of that, keep it cleaner.  Yes, definitely doing 6 buttons.  Going to go with a Star Wars theme and Le Chuck was kind enough to share his Darkade artwork with me, but I'm only really using the CP area from it (modified somewhat).  Going to start building next week after the trimwork that I just finished painting in the shop is dry so I can make sawdust again.

[Slippyblade]

Darkade was a great build.  Awesome pick to use for inspiration. 

[EMDB]

I think the Metal Slug series is fun for 12 year olds...

[BorgDog]

I think the Metal Slug series is fun for 12 year olds...

Thanks, I'll add it to the list, I've never played it before, but it looks pretty cool.

Darkade was a great build.  Awesome pick to use for inspiration. 

This isn't going to be nearly as awesome, he had way to many cool toys on that, the whole Tron support was amazing.

[thomas_surles]

I know that some games like gauntlet and the Simpson's, the coin buttons decide what character you will be. I could be wrong, maybe it it is just the player start button. but most of the games only need one coin button.

[Slippyblade]

I know that some games like gauntlet and the Simpson's, the coin buttons decide what character you will be. I could be wrong, maybe it it is just the player start button. but most of the games only need one coin button.

There are 2 player versions of most of those kinds of games that allow you to select your character.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Some other Neo Geo MVS games including the Metal Slug Series are cool too:
Co-op Games:
-  Metal Slug, Metal Slug 2, Metal Slug 3, Metal Slug 4, Metal Slug 5, Metal Slug 6, Metal Slug X
-  Cyber Lip (very similar to Metal Slug but in the future)
-  Eight Man (8 Man)
-  Baseball Stars Professional, Baseball Stars 2
-  Bust-A-Move / Puzzle Bobble

Fighting Games:
-  Fatal Fury, Fatal Fury 2, Fatal Fury Special, Fatal Fury 3
-  Art of Fighting series
-  King of Fighters series (there are many but I like KOF 97)
-  Samurai Showdown series
-  World Heroes series
-  Sengoku (co-op beat em up)

Shmups (co-op):
-  Prehistoric Isle 2
-  Aero Fighters 2, Aero Fighters 3

Honorable mention because they are fun with 2 players (all above were Neo Geo except for this one)
-  Pyu Pyu
-  Tetris (Atari version is fun for kids and adults alike)

DeLuSioNaL29

[PL1]

I know that some games like gauntlet and the Simpson's, the coin buttons decide what character you will be. I could be wrong, maybe it it is just the player start button. but most of the games only need one coin button.

There are 2 player versions of most of those kinds of games that allow you to select your character.

True, but coin slot still determines which player gets credits/health.

Two possible approaches:
  1.) Have separate Coin1 and Coin2 buttons/shifted functions or
  2.) Remap MAME inputs so Coin1 and Coin2 use the same keystroke. (i.e. press "5" for both players get a credit/health)


Scott

[thomas_surles]

I know that some games like gauntlet and the Simpson's, the coin buttons decide what character you will be. I could be wrong, maybe it it is just the player start button. but most of the games only need one coin button.

There are 2 player versions of most of those kinds of games that allow you to select your character.

True, but coin slot still determines which player gets credits/health.

Two possible approaches:
  1.) Have separate Coin1 and Coin2 buttons/shifted functions or
  2.) Remap MAME inputs so Coin1 and Coin2 use the same keystroke. (i.e. press "5" for both players get a credit/health)


Scott

I've been doing it all wrong. I was so tired of being Marge. I will give that a shot. Thank you

[Yenome]

I agree with the others a 6 buttons ea would be best give the most options. for the neogeo games i would do the layout as follows.

C D *      *= buttons in 6 layout not used for neogeo
A B *

This is the same layout the neogeo home console controllers used. since i went to it i have dropped the 7th button i used to have for neogeo games. for 6 button player im sure the old capcom layout is fine.

[paigeoliver]

Just do the 2x6 straight button layout. Your grandson and his friends missed Neo Geo and honestly, they didn't miss much, Capcom and Midway owned the multibutton fighter genre. They don't need the curve, the curve doesn't help. The curve is for people who were unfortunate enough to get trained on curved Japanese layouts, which existed not because they were better, but because the generic cabinets that existed in Japan when the Neo Geo came out couldn't quite fit four buttons in a straight line, so they dropped one down to save a couple millimeters. Then those cabinets got drilled out for Street Fighter, then they just started making the cabinets that way.

Also, don't be cheap, spend another $40 on a coin door and extra wood and give them a real cabinet instead of some toy bartop that is going to get destroyed when they try to move it and drop it.

[BorgDog]

Just do the 2x6 straight button layout. Your grandson and his friends missed Neo Geo and honestly, they didn't miss much, Capcom and Midway owned the multibutton fighter genre. They don't need the curve, the curve doesn't help. The curve is for people who were unfortunate enough to get trained on curved Japanese layouts, which existed not because they were better, but because the generic cabinets that existed in Japan when the Neo Geo came out couldn't quite fit four buttons in a straight line, so they dropped one down to save a couple millimeters. Then those cabinets got drilled out for Street Fighter, then they just started making the cabinets that way.

Also, don't be cheap, spend another $40 on a coin door and extra wood and give them a real cabinet instead of some toy bartop that is going to get destroyed when they try to move it and drop it.

   nice.   has nothing to do with cheap, and what do I need a coin door for?  that's for people who were unfortunate enough to have to stick quarters in machines to play them.  Doesn't make it play better, but they needed a way to get the damn coins out or the machine would fill up so they made a door on the front, then all the arcade wanna be's just had to make them that way too. and just wait until they try to move the "real" cabinet, probably crush one of the poor little guys!  /s     

6 buttons it definitely is, thanks Yenome for the suggestiion on how to setup the neogeo buttons.

[paigeoliver]

Just do the 2x6 straight button layout. Your grandson and his friends missed Neo Geo and honestly, they didn't miss much, Capcom and Midway owned the multibutton fighter genre. They don't need the curve, the curve doesn't help. The curve is for people who were unfortunate enough to get trained on curved Japanese layouts, which existed not because they were better, but because the generic cabinets that existed in Japan when the Neo Geo came out couldn't quite fit four buttons in a straight line, so they dropped one down to save a couple millimeters. Then those cabinets got drilled out for Street Fighter, then they just started making the cabinets that way.

Also, don't be cheap, spend another $40 on a coin door and extra wood and give them a real cabinet instead of some toy bartop that is going to get destroyed when they try to move it and drop it.

   nice.   has nothing to do with cheap, and what do I need a coin door for?  that's for people who were unfortunate enough to have to stick quarters in machines to play them.  Doesn't make it play better, but they needed a way to get the damn coins out or the machine would fill up so they made a door on the front, then all the arcade wanna be's just had to make them that way too. and just wait until they try to move the "real" cabinet, probably crush one of the poor little guys!  /s     

6 buttons it definitely is, thanks Yenome for the suggestiion on how to setup the neogeo buttons.

Nice counterpoints.

[solar]

Also a good few of the neo geos don't even use the fourth button.

Knowing how little i use the 6 buttons i have (excluding shifted functions), having any more would be excessive. I included them to allow for fighting games and they are now probably the ones i play on least.

I haven't seem bomberman or bubble bobble mentioned yet.