I think I need a gun

[Phreakwars]

So, after I finish this bartop project I'm working on. I'm gonna start laying out the groundwork for my 4th, and most massive project yet.. My personal arcade for my office. The only aspect of it, that will be relevant to this topic, is the ability to play Hogan's Alley... Back in the day... that was my game!!!

So I guess for starters, what I am looking for, is a gun with a similar look/feel/capability of the original Hogan's Alley gun.

I plan on running this on a 27" flat screen in the cabinet. I have never worked with light gun setups before... PLEASE HELP!!

[yotsuya]

So, after I finish this bartop project I'm working on. I'm gonna start laying out the groundwork for my 4th, and most massive project yet.. My personal arcade for my office. The only aspect of it, that will be relevant to this topic, is the ability to play Hogan's Alley... Back in the day... that was my game!!!

So I guess for starters, what I am looking for, is a gun with a similar look/feel/capability of the original Hogan's Alley gun.

I plan on running this on a 27" flat screen in the cabinet. I have never worked with light gun setups before... PLEASE HELP!!

Using an LCD limits your options. Really, at this point in time, AimTraks are your best bet. However, you won't get the perfect arcade experience, so be ready for that.

Have they fixed the lightgun glitch that was with the Nintendo Vs. games?  It's been a while.

[Phreakwars]

Yeah, I have no idea. Something is up with it either way. I tried playing it in mameui with the mouse and when I fired I'd hear the sound, and see a flash, but nothing would register to even start the game. On the PC10 version of it, it worked just fine with a mouse... but then... that's a mouse, not a light gun. And yeah, I've seen some chatter about LCD .vs CRT on the light gun games. Kind of worries me a bit there too. Don't wanna invest a bunch in the hardware just to have it run like crap. And my only REAL gripe about CRT's, is I DON'T LIKE ELECTRICITY  Would tend to scare the  out of me trying to position and install a CRT monitor in a cabinet. I've been shocked off of one before back when I was like 16-17.. I really doesn't feel very good. 

[yotsuya]

Yeah, I have no idea. Something is up with it either way. I tried playing it in mameui with the mouse and when I fired I'd hear the sound, and see a flash, but nothing would register to even start the game. On the PC10 version of it, it worked just fine with a mouse... but then... that's a mouse, not a light gun. And yeah, I've seen some chatter about LCD .vs CRT on the light gun games. Kind of worries me a bit there too. Don't wanna invest a bunch in the hardware just to have it run like crap. And my only REAL gripe about CRT's, is I DON'T LIKE ELECTRICITY  Would tend to scare the  out of me trying to position and install a CRT monitor in a cabinet. I've been shocked off of one before back when I was like 16-17.. I really doesn't feel very good. 

If you're careful, there's NOTHING to worry about. The keyword is careful. I was the same way at first, now messing with CRTs are like nothing.

I had grand plans to make a gun cab a year or two ago. I even got a 25 inch CRT and a fast Mobo/Processor combo for it. The 25 incher went into my NBA Jam (and looks awesome) and the Mobo went into Janky Kong. Duck Hunt and Hogan's Alley not working was a bummer for me. Interesting enough, the Vs. Unisystem board I just cobbled together is a working Hogan's Alley setup.

[RandyT]

Current gun setups for LCD (outside of the expensive stuff from the arcades) just aren't going to offer the experience I think you are seeking.  I've tried them all.  It's more "Wii-like", and having a visible cursor on the screen and/or maintaining larger than satisfactory distances from the screen, is pretty much a necessity. 

I understand that Hogan's Alley is your goal, but consider looking at a Playstation2 system, with Guncons 1 and 2. Set up the PS2 for RGB and get as large of an RGB CRT monitor as you can find/lift.  There are more than a dozen titles you'll be able to play, and it will feel just like you remember.  Very good accuracy, no limits to how you hold the gun, doesn't care about distance or at what height it is in relation to the screen and no extra gizmos to attach.

You won't get Hogan's Alley, but once you fill out your library with compatible titles, you probably won't miss it.  There are similar play sequences in the Point Blank series, as well as in the mini-games included with some of the Time Crisis titles.

[Jollywest]

Hogan's Alley works just fine on older MAME versions, up to about v0.130 if I remember right.
Something in the game is broken in the more recent versions.

[BadMouth]

Current gun setups for LCD (outside of the expensive stuff from the arcades) just aren't going to offer the experience I think you are seeking.  I've tried them all.  It's more "Wii-like", and having a visible cursor on the screen and/or maintaining larger than satisfactory distances from the screen, is pretty much a necessity. 

+1

It really depends on what your expectations are.  Younger people who grew up with a wii will be perfectly happy with IR guns that work with LCD screens.
To me, it feels more like you're playing with a magic wand than a gun.  You move the gun around and watch the crosshairs on the screen instead of looking down the gun sights.  I have to be able to use only the physical sights on the gun and have the bullet go exactly where they should or the game is ruined for me.

[yotsuya]

Current gun setups for LCD (outside of the expensive stuff from the arcades) just aren't going to offer the experience I think you are seeking.  I've tried them all.  It's more "Wii-like", and having a visible cursor on the screen and/or maintaining larger than satisfactory distances from the screen, is pretty much a necessity. 

+1

It really depends on what your expectations are.  Younger people who grew up with a wii will be perfectly happy with IR guns that work with LCD screens.
To me, it feels more like you're playing with a magic wand than a gun.  You move the gun around and watch the crosshairs on the screen instead of looking down the gun sights.  I have to be able to use only the physical sights on the gun and have the bullet go exactly where they should or the game is ruined for me.

Troof.

I'm thinking I'll just buy a dedicated Area 51 one day and call it good.

[BadMouth]

Current gun setups for LCD (outside of the expensive stuff from the arcades) just aren't going to offer the experience I think you are seeking.  I've tried them all.  It's more "Wii-like", and having a visible cursor on the screen and/or maintaining larger than satisfactory distances from the screen, is pretty much a necessity. 

+1

It really depends on what your expectations are.  Younger people who grew up with a wii will be perfectly happy with IR guns that work with LCD screens.
To me, it feels more like you're playing with a magic wand than a gun.  You move the gun around and watch the crosshairs on the screen instead of looking down the gun sights.  I have to be able to use only the physical sights on the gun and have the bullet go exactly where they should or the game is ruined for me.

Troof.

I'm thinking I'll just buy a dedicated Area 51 one day and call it good.

Get a dedicated America's Army and install MAME on it.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138723.0.html
(The USB2Gun is part of the original hardware in the cabinet if ya weren't aware.  I doubt the original PC is powerful enough to emulate Area 51)

[yotsuya]

Current gun setups for LCD (outside of the expensive stuff from the arcades) just aren't going to offer the experience I think you are seeking.  I've tried them all.  It's more "Wii-like", and having a visible cursor on the screen and/or maintaining larger than satisfactory distances from the screen, is pretty much a necessity. 

+1

It really depends on what your expectations are.  Younger people who grew up with a wii will be perfectly happy with IR guns that work with LCD screens.
To me, it feels more like you're playing with a magic wand than a gun.  You move the gun around and watch the crosshairs on the screen instead of looking down the gun sights.  I have to be able to use only the physical sights on the gun and have the bullet go exactly where they should or the game is ruined for me.

Troof.

I'm thinking I'll just buy a dedicated Area 51 one day and call it good.

Get a dedicated America's Army and install MAME on it.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138723.0.html

Actually, I've kind of given up on the idea of even having a gun game. My game rooms pretty packed, and it was kind of more of a nice to have thing than a true want. I'm wondering if I should put my AimTrak in the for sale section. I don't think I'm ever going to use it. I could integrated into my existing MAME cab, but that brings up some other issues.

[pbj]

I owned an Area 51 for all of 24 hours.  Turns out the parts in those things are 'valuable' so I flipped it to an operator buddy that came and picked it up.  Everyone was happy. 

I think I spent the $50 I made on beer. 

At least I hope I did.

Big Buck Hunter on the Wii is pretty fun.  The Sega one where you get to shoot endangered species was good on location.  I liked shooting fish in the river.

[Phreakwars]

I've played other gun games, just never really cared for them. Hogan's Alley kind of has a special place in my heart. Hell if I can't get a decent setup for it, I'm almost tempted to just find a used one on like eBay or something. I think my wife might be pissed though if I buy a cabinet for just 1 game, then build another. That will take up alot of room. Room that I don't really have in my office.

[pbj]

Hogan's Alley is fun for exactly 5 minutes.  Get it on NES - the port is perfect.

[Phreakwars]

Yeah, I don't own a CRT TV. I was thinking of buying a NES just for that game.... maybe even duck hunt, but then I'd have to hunt down an old TV to play it on.. Or does the NES light gun work on a flatscreen LCD / Plasma?

[HaRuMaN]

Yeah, I don't own a CRT TV. I was thinking of buying a NES just for that game.... maybe even duck hunt, but then I'd have to hunt down an old TV to play it on.. Or does the NES light gun work on a flatscreen LCD / Plasma?

Nope, has to be a CRT

[Malenko]

only console gun that works with an LCD TV is the GunCon4

[yotsuya]

You can get a CRT at Goodwill for a buck - and if you go the right day, you'll  get change back.

[Xiaou2]

I had bought the Act Lab guns... and both versions were unusable crap.  Various shots being up to an inch off... and no consistency.
The VGA version didnt even work at all with the TV I had.

 I got the LCD Topguns.. and those are far superior.   It took a while to figure out, because I had initially inverted the bar locations.   Eventually, I got it calibrated correctly, and the accuracy was really good.    Biggest problem with them... was the distance away from the screen you had to stand.    Someone found a fix to this... by placing a small wide angle lens in front of the guns optics.   The demonstration vid the guy uploaded, shows pretty much spot on accuracy.. .and he was around the standard 3 ft - ish   range.  (rather than 5 to 7 ft)

 A thing to note, is that too much lighting in the room can cancel out the LED infarred signals.. resulting in calibration and accuracy problems.  Once the lights are off.. or very dim... things work great.     (I believe the later arcade machines solved this issue.. .by using an internally shielded bezel behind the glass.   I believe they used a cross beam lattice instead of shining directly at the gun)

 The LCD Topguns use dual bars for better accuracy...   where as the Aimtrack only uses one.   I believe this is a mistake.    Andy has said the reason was that the gun could not see both optic sets all the time..  but that could again be solved with a cheap wide angle lens.

 I refuse to play any lightgun game with a crosshair.. as that completely defeats the skill challenge.
And I refuse to play a lightgun game if the guns accuracy isnt spot on, as that destroys your acquired skills.

 Until someone released a far superior solution.. the best thing for emulation is still the Topguns IMO, (with the lens mod).

 Otherwise.. its better to get a real CRT, and use the real game consoles.    You will get the original look, and superior accuracy.

 I strongly recommend getting a Sega Master System (or Genesis with a Power Base Converter),  and grabbing a copy of
Shooting Gallery.   Its one of the best lightgun games Ive played to date.   High level of skills required.  Similar to Point Blanc... but IMO, far more satisfying.

 Also recommend getting Missile Defense 3D with the 3d glasses.   Best off using PC based 3d glasses.. I think people are using Asus versions... because many of the master system glasses do not survive aging well.. and have ghosting problems.   The 3d is quite awesome.. as missiles can fly right out of the screen.   The challenge is really difficult, and fun.  (Although, a bit grim, with the world getting Nuked if you fail  !!!   lol )

 Also, as said, the PS2 has a good range of gun games that work really well.


 Hopefully the future holds a better Emulation Solution.
 

[BadMouth]

I had a much better experience with the act labs s-video guns.  They worked exactly as expected and were dead on accurate  regardless of how you moved around.  If you get too fancy of an old tv though, the post processing features like line doublers will render them useless.

I enjoyed them, but parted with them after ridding my house of crt tvs.

[Xiaou2]

I had a much better experience with the act labs s-video guns.  They worked exactly as expected and were dead on accurate  regardless of how you moved around.  If you get too fancy of an old tv though, the post processing features like line doublers will render them useless.

I enjoyed them, but parted with them after ridding my house of crt tvs.

 Well, turns out that certain CRT tvs use different processing and display methods.   Probably anything that could display low end HD... such as Component video inputs.   I believe my elder Panny was 480I.

 Besides this fact... the guns themselves had horrible triggers,  poor button positioning,  and bad ergonomics period.

 ActLabs were known for horrible quality after a certain point.  (well before the guns actually... ) Their racing gear was plagued with major breakage issues... that were not dealt with properly.   Customers were left hung to dry,  and their forums were riddled with complaints.   I believe id read a lot of horror stories about people calling tech support, and getting horrible attitudes, lies, and scams.

[Phreakwars]

From the way it looks, the Act Lab guns are being discontinued..

So anyways. I'm thinking one solution I might have is just building yet another bartop, but instead place a CRT in it. Of course, that will be kind of a pain as well. Dang big ole' bulky CRT's anyway. But if I did that, I'd still have the space in my office for the arcade cabinet I have planned... yet another crazy idea that comes to mind, is doing the best of both world. A flat screen 27" LCD arcade cabinet, with a 19" CRT monitor mounted above it.. that actually might work. A buddy of mine is gonna do the wood cutting and stuff like that for me, no kit this time around. I'd just have to come up with some blueprint plans for it.

And, as far as I can tell, yep I'll have to run an older version of mame to get Hogan's Alley to even work.. what I am wondering though... is has the rom itself changed since mame .030? After researching and recalling a bit, it's gonna HAVE TO BE the arcade .VS version, and not the PC10 or NES version. What I'm wanting is the same type of gameplay that the .VS version offered. You just don't get that in the other versions.

Man, this entire concept is starting to look like a bigger pain then what it would be worth.. ALL I WANNA DO IS PLAY SOME DAMN .VS HOGANS ALLEY!! 

[Jollywest]

It is the VS version you want, and MAME <0.130.
The rom hasn't changed, it's the MAME source code that's changed.

[Ginsu Victim]

Not a fan of the gun options that are available. I sold off what I had and have no plans of ever trying again.

[Phreakwars]

This looks promising, pulled the link from Jollywest's project:

http://www.nanotechent.com/optigun.php

It's 200 bucks though... eeshh. That's alot of cash to plunk down on something I've never tried before or can verify will work for me.

Edit, from what I understand, the optigun produces a white flash to detect positioning, and Hogan's Alley/Duck Hunt produce a black flash.. at least they do on an NES . I'm guessing this is a significant difference in how things might work.

[BadMouth]

This looks promising, pulled the link from Jollywest's project:

http://www.nanotechent.com/optigun.php

It's 200 bucks though... eeshh. That's alot of cash to plunk down on something I've never tried before or can verify will work for me.

The owner of that company is currently in federal prison.
I don't think very many of his products ever made it to market.

The board itself was just a rebranded USB2Gun interface board from Global VR arcade games like America's Army.
See above posts.

(sometimes I wonder how many noob accounts are really just sock puppet accounts that regulars use to screw with people)

[Phreakwars]

This looks promising, pulled the link from Jollywest's project:

http://www.nanotechent.com/optigun.php

It's 200 bucks though... eeshh. That's alot of cash to plunk down on something I've never tried before or can verify will work for me.

The owner of that company is currently in federal prison.
I don't think very many of his products ever made it to market.

The board itself was just a rebranded USB2Gun interface board from Global VR arcade games like America's Army.
See above posts.

(sometimes I wonder how many noob accounts are really just sock puppet accounts that regulars use to screw with people)

So then, in order to get that, I'd have to buy it from here?

http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi

OUCH $298.55 !!

[Hoopz]

This looks promising, pulled the link from Jollywest's project:

http://www.nanotechent.com/optigun.php

It's 200 bucks though... eeshh. That's alot of cash to plunk down on something I've never tried before or can verify will work for me.

The owner of that company is currently in federal prison.
I don't think very many of his products ever made it to market.

The board itself was just a rebranded USB2Gun interface board from Global VR arcade games like America's Army.
See above posts.

(sometimes I wonder how many noob accounts are really just sock puppet accounts that regulars use to screw with people)

I've yet to read a forum or board where anyone actually received one.  I'd bet that they never shipped one.

[Ginsu Victim]

I've yet to read a forum or board where anyone actually received one.  I'd bet that they never shipped one.

Payment is only accepted in the form of cigarettes.

[yotsuya]

My advice, if you really want a gun cab because of Hogan's Alley, try to find a dedicated one. Either that, or build a hybrid out of an NES with a zapper gun. That's really the only way its going to play like it did as you remember it.