My Arcade Stick -- Prototype 1 (Update 11/1)

[ladysephiroth]

I know I need to make the base a teeeeeny bit (like an inch) deeper -- I'm happy with the pitch and the angle but I feel like there's some wasted space underneath. 

Cardboard prototype 1, blue is the trackball, red is the spinner. 

[ladysephiroth]

Draft of the layout/design.  I changed from my original design to this Marvel Civil War-inspired motif, so I might be able to go with a 3" trackball since white will work now. I did this in GIMP and I have absolutely no clue what I am doing beyond "use layers." 

Thanks much! 

[Frank Drebin]

Powered by Pi or just a standalone?

[ladysephiroth]

Standalone.  I have a Mac Mini hooked to my TV for all my retro gaming needs, and this is just going to hook to that. 

[ladysephiroth]

Ordering parts today!  Enough in the end of the month slush fund to start getting stuff.  Going to mount as much as I can in the cardboard them play with it to make sure it works, then talk to Dad about woodworking!   

[ladysephiroth]

Got a big box o' parts today so I'm adding pieces to the cardboard!  I'm only going to do one side for now, and I have no way (yet) to hold the trackball up -- I want to undermount it and I can't find a way yet to do that -- is there an undermount bracket for a HAPP trackball? The joystick is being held in place with an assist from some tape!

Nothing is wired since i don't have the control board yet (it's en route.) 

I assume that if I put the microswitches in the buttons and the board in the spinner, I will be able to get them back out again?  I'll want to obviously put them in the actual wood controller when I get it done.

[ladysephiroth]

Just another update pic ... I'm so excited about this! I decided to put all the bits in and I'm gonna have some beta testers play with it and see how the placement of everything is.  The trackball will eventually be undermount but that's hard to do in cardboard

I'm not sure why it's uploaded upside down since it's fine in every other program I've opened it in  

[RxBrad]

As the guy doing the other Marvel cab, I've always thought this could be adapted to some sort of control panel layout...

[Xiaou2]

There is a possible issue with rolling the trackball... where you might slam your fingers into the spinner.   Also, reaching that deep into the control panel can create physical strain in a very short period of time.

 Also, your buttons are too far apart to easily be used.   Typically, arcades placed them so close together, that it was often hard to turn the undersides button-nut.   You want to be able to comfortably rest your fingers on two or the full three buttons... depending on your finger spread capability.  (or at least, be able to easily shift from the center.. to either side with a minimal slide)

 Use a few layers of cardboard to give thickness... will help with the mounting and strength.   You could hot glue layers together.. and or also use some vertical supports too.


 If you move your buttons closer.. you might have room to inject the spinner slightly diagonal to the right...  of player 1s side.
This will allow you to use the joystick and or the spinner, and still use the buttons with the other hand.

 Make sure to try to leave about 1ft diameter minimal of space for rolling the trackball.   Nearby buttons are fairly low, so are not much of an issue.  However, joysticks that are too close.. you can end up smashing your fingers / hand into.

 A lot of people prefer the look of a symmetrical panel..   however, in doing so, it causes the joystick smash problem.   Moving the trackball slightly to the left, towards player 1s sides buttons, usually solves the problem.

 Because of this issue.. many have had to crank the sensitivity of the trackball really high.. so that they do not have to roll it much.  However, this makes the games too easy, because you are reducing the depth of the analog spectrum.  Meaning.. instead of a possible input value set of 1 to 100... now its 1 to 5.   Vastly reducing possible outcomes and skill potentials.

 Arcade Trackballs were made to be spun at high speeds, using nice long stroke spins.

[ladysephiroth]

I was wondering about the buttons -- I have longass piano fingers and these work for me, but not everyone does.  I can move them closer if needs be. That's a good point.   

So far i've not felt a lot of fatigue playing with the trackball or spinner -- This one sits on the floor or on a table so i'm not actually standing which may help.  Gonna have some beta testers play with it this week and see what else needs changed. 

[Xiaou2]

Im surprised if you can land all of your fingers across three buttons at that distance.

 Unlike a piano key, microswitch buttons need a lot more activation pressure.   And to get that.. you generally want your fingers bent at the knuckles... so that they are more vertically oriented.   This gives you far more leverage, and causes far less fatigue / strain.

 The exception to the rule are the Japanese style convex or flat topped buttons...  as you can press them from even the edges.. and I believe they have lighter actuation required.   Another might be the use of the new micro-leaf switches that some vendors sell.

 Personally, I do not like convex buttons.   I love the way the concave buttons cuddle your fingers, keeping them locked in place, so they dont slide off and get lost.   I also am not a fan of the new micro-leafs.. as I feel they are too easy to accidentally depress.


 The spinner reach may become far more apparent when you cant rest the CP on your lap / table.  (where you can get your feet / legs under it)   The cp will only overhang a typical machine by a few inches.      Also, when reaching like this.. the shoulder also usually will lurch forwards.  Again... not a pleasant thing for long duration.    Make sure to test in long sessions, rather than mere seconds or a few minutes.  You can even just hold a static pose for 5 or more minutes.. and see what things feel strained.

 - Also note... there has been at least one report of an injury from rolling a trackball into a controller that was above it.

 On a side note... grab an analog trigger stick, and temporarily place it on top of your CP so you can try Mad Planets.  Awesome fun.
A lot of great spinner games also used a trigger stick for the movement.

[ladysephiroth]

I'm not building a machine, it's a floor or table CP I WISH I had room for a cab but I live in a small townhouse, and I have lots of space-sucking hobbies besides this (sewing and retrocomputing) Someday, maybe, but I'm not moving for a long long time -- I moved twice in a year last time and I'm DONE for a while! 

Yeah don't want to get hurt   Will play lots -- I have plenty of time to mess with it, I can't do much with woodworking till the holidays when I got to my parents' -- Dad has a woodshop and the know-how to help me put this together. Plenty of time to refine and test. Just need a trackball mount and I can totally test.   

[Xiaou2]

If you do not wish to wait...  You can pretty much build simple prototype with only a few hand tools.

 1)  Harbor freight Japanese style pull-saw.. cuts silently and easily through wood like butter.   Very little sawdust.
(under 10$)

http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/saws/10-inch-flush-cut-pull-saw-94722.html

or

 http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/saws/10-inch-japanese-style-double-edge-saw-67058.html

 2) Hand drill with a spade bit.    Pretty much covers the button installation.

 3) soldering iron / gun

 4) scrap wood.   Easily scavenge broken dressers and shelving units off the curb.   Hot glue pieces together, using only a few small glued-in-blocks in the corners... and it will be strong enough to use as a stepping stool.  When trying to pull it apart.. the wood usually spits before the glue.

 5) Scrap wires.   If needed, scavenge various cords and wiring from scrapped computers (power supplies have a ton of wiring... and most pc shops toss them out on a regular basis.. happily to hand them over most likely)  , or any other electronics that are tossed to the curb.

 A trackball with a mounting plate is also fairly easy to do.   Just cut enough holes with your spade bit to get the square section out..  then file down / sand to get the flat edge.

 Its good practice, and it will give you a good sense of accomplishment.  Plus.. it will give you the maker-bug 

 Best Regards
 =)

[ladysephiroth]

It lives and it plays! Player 2 controls are giving me fits, OSX isn't known for great joystick support to begin with, so may need a different type of encoder board. Size feels good though, buttons may need to be closer and would love to undermount the trackball in the prototype to really test the playability of the trackball and the spinner. I can sit on my sofa and play arcade games! (Shown: Moon Patrol)

@Xiaou2 -- I want to wait and do this with my Dad -- he loves woodworking, and has pro-grade tools.  He's also a retired woodshop teacher so he'll have ideas and hints to take it from good to awesome! Bonus: Father-Daughter Bonding Time, GET!

[ladysephiroth]

New idea for the CP artwork ... playing with the Civil War theme.  Thoughts? (not a final layout, just playing with the old one.)

[Xiaou2]

Surprisingly, you sort of solved the Hand-Smash issue of the trackball.. by keeping it above the joystick height.  heh


 As for the art... That grayish color is awful.

 You could try gradients that fade to black in the center..   or a gradient that naturally crosses each color (purple in the center).
Or Divide the colors using line work.

[ladysephiroth]

My original design had purple in the middle and I hated it, it didn't fit the theme.  Black might work better... will try that!

The top hole is for the spinner, the bottom circle is the trackball, you were totally right about that

[RxBrad]

This is just a quick rough image, but maybe do something like this in the center with a predominantly dark background?

[Xiaou2]

If you do not mind rotating the Control panel... you can do something like this...  where you basically make a Split-Panel.
You could angle each half, much like a house Roof.

This could give you ability to add more controls.. such as Trigger Sticks,  as well as dedicated 4 way joysticks...  or whatever else
you wanted to add.    Additionally... you could even place pinball buttons on the narrow end sides of the CP.

In the far right example,  you have dual trigger sticks placed near each other... which could allow for use as a tank game controller.
Or just used individually + a spinner..   for games like Mad Planets, Tron...etc.

[ladysephiroth]

So I mocked these two up in GIMP based on that BAD ARSE idea from RxBrad. 

Xiaou, I like the way I have it -- I don't meed MOAR STUFF. I'm out of layout and into design now

[yotsuya]

If you do not mind rotating the Control panel... you can do something like this...  where you basically make a Split-Panel.
You could angle each half, much like a house Roof.

This could give you ability to add more controls.. such as Trigger Sticks,  as well as dedicated 4 way joysticks...  or whatever else
you wanted to add.    Additionally... you could even place pinball buttons on the narrow end sides of the CP.

In the far right example,  you have dual trigger sticks placed near each other... which could allow for use as a tank game controller.
Or just used individually + a spinner..   for games like Mad Planets, Tron...etc.

Frankening the panel to new levels.... kind of appropriate for October








*Note: this was a joke comment. Please don't play the narcissist card. Kthxbai.

[RxBrad]

So I mocked these two up in GIMP based on that BAD ARSE idea from RxBrad. 

Xiaou, I like the way I have it -- I don't meed MOAR STUFF. I'm out of layout and into design now

I like the first one with the red and blue sides the most.

It's really just personal preference, but the red and blue seem a bit too bright to me, and could be darkened up a bit. And/or maybe the center black gradient stretched out a little.

[ladysephiroth]

Minor update on the face, major update under the hood.  Mark II prototype, with closer buttons (yeah you're all right, they're super hard to mount this close, I must be doing something right.)  Under the hood, upgrade to IPAC VE, both player sides work perfectly now, and I'm getting close to being able to make a final.  Been busy with Real Life, and it's only gonna get worse till the holidays are over.  Prolly gonna roll with this till I can do the work over my Christmas break.