Sega Model 3 or Sega Naomi wheel ?

[Connorsdad]

I recently acquired a Sega Naomi Intitial-D3 cab which at some point in time I am going to turn into a mame racing cab, I'm looking for advice regarding which steering setup to use. I have read that the steering system is a straight swap with a model 3 dash (plug and play), therefore which of these 2 systems would you guys recommend based on ease of interfacing to a pc (force feedback) and game compatibility ?

The reason I ask is because I don't want to spend £100+ on another dash (model 3) if it's not needed.

Thanks

[BadMouth]

I'm not aware of anyone ever interfacing either a Model 3 or Naomi force feedback system with a Windows PC.
Aganyte, who came up with the L2M2 interface for Model 2 wheels said he could do it, but hasn't yet as far as I know.

If you want the force feedback to work, you'll probably have to invent the interface yourself.
You're not going to find anything plug and play or any step by step instructions online.

There is a reason a lot of people (even some who are capable of pulling off a custom interface) choose to just install PC wheels in the dash.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a Naomi interface as I also have an Initial D setup on a shelf doing nothing.
It's going to take a lot of work by someone with the skillz though, and then they are going to have to share their work.
As far as I know, that hasn't happened.

[Connorsdad]

I'm definitely not the person to make it happen unfortunately

Suppose I could get a model 2 wheel and fit that. The thing I don't like about any console/pc wheel I've ever tried is the ffb is weak beyond belief, can't understand why nothing aimed purely at adults has never come to market.

Still, looking to enjoy my ID games for a while yet anyway

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[Howard_Casto]

Eh the high end wheels are pretty strong.  That being said I never understood why they are that strong.  I want feedback, not the potential for the game to crash and rip my arm off.

[BadMouth]

Keep in mind with the Model 2 wheel, you'll still have to get Aganyte's custom PCBs made somewhere then solder in all the parts.
Nobody is selling them as kits or already assembled.
Links are in the driving cab info thread.

[Connorsdad]

I like the fact I have to fight with them

Which wheels would you recommend for strong ffb ?

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[Howard_Casto]

I don't think I'm the one to ask.  I'm decidedly cheap and stuck in the low-end dept. 

[BadMouth]

I usually recommend the Logitech wheels because they are the current standard for PC.
Most recent PC games are set up for them out of the box.  The Logitech profiler software allows you to have custom wheel settings for each emulator and applies them automatically when the .exe is detected.  This means you don't have to worry about writing scripts or batch files to apply the different settings.
Some emulators and older PC games work better with the pedals combined on one axis.  Some work better with them showing as two separate axis.
This is a setting that is usually changed in windows controllers, but the profiler software can change it on the fly.

The G27 looks a lot better IMO.  The only drawback is that the clutch pedal causes issues with some emulators.  For example in Demul you have to hold the clutch pedal down exactly halfway while mapping other controls, or else it detects the clutch pedal as what you want mapped.  Once they are mapped, there aren't any issues.

The driving force doesn't have the clutch pedal issue, but the wheel and pedals don't look as nice.

If you want to go high end, the Fanatec Clubsport setup is the best thing out there right now:
http://www.fanatec.com/eu-en/wheel-bases/clubsport-wheel-base-v2-eu.html

[isamu]

I like the fact I have to fight with them

Which wheels would you recommend for strong ffb ?

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Connarsdad, if you are serious about wanting a strong, high quality industrial force feedback wheel and have the budget to back it up, I can steer you(no pun intended) in the right direction. 

There is a new evolution of ffb wheels taking the sim-racing community by storm. They are called "direct drive" ffb wheels. Reason for the name is because they do not operate using the assistance of any belts or gears like what's found in the Logitech wheels. They are mounted directly to an ENORMOUS servo motor that is used to operate things in other commercial fields like in the robotics industry. 

First of all, the main thing you need to know is that these types of wheels COMMAND your respect! To say they are brutally strong would be an understatement. They are not just strong but deceptively dangerous! One iracing member has already suffered a sever injury to both of his wrists because he forgot to let go of his DD wheel when colliding with the wall. He is wearing a cast on both of his hands. The puppies are NO JOKE!

I too am someone that has sort of a fetish for high grade super strong industrial quality wheels, and still own my Happ FFB wheel, used to own a Frex wheel, and latest one was an ECCI 7000 wheel which used to be considered the cream of the crop a few years ago. But now with the emergence of these new wheels even I am a bit nervous about tackling this beast when it arrives later this year.

To give a an example, have a look at the following videos. In the first video, Niels(maker of the HE Ultimate pedals) talks about his fear of using the Bodnar wheel due to its outrageous 23NM of force!!!!! Then in the second video, watch(and *listen*) as he struggles to get a hold and maintain a solid grip on his Leo Bodnar DD wheel and how he sounds like he's straining to take a dump.









So yeah, Cannondad....if you feel you are in shape enough to handle such power and torque, and can obtain one of these wheels without breaking the bank and have the budget for one, by all means go for it. Prices range from about $1200 for the DIY version, all the way up to $4500 for Leo Bodnar's Sim Steering wheel. There's also the middle ground and overall best bang for your buck solution, the OSW Kit by Dennis Reimer, which is the one I decided to go with, at around 3K.

http://ib-reimer.de/index.php/en/

[Howard_Casto]

It's also worth noting that these are especially dangerous on the pc.  Your hardcore sims, and emulated games often have software interfaces that are a bit hacked together (mine included of course).  That means your wheel has the potential to glitch out, the program can crash, ect and although the risk is slight, you might end up with an out of control wheel.  Not a big deal with a traditional ff wheel, but it could break your arm on the more powerful ones. 

[isamu]

It's also worth noting that these are especially dangerous on the pc.  Your hardcore sims, and emulated games often have software interfaces that are a bit hacked together (mine included of course).  That means your wheel has the potential to glitch out, the program can crash, ect and although the risk is slight, you might end up with an out of control wheel.  Not a big deal with a traditional ff wheel, but it could break your arm on the more powerful ones.

Yup that is certainly true. Although I should point out that the majority of all the DD wheels being sold come with a big orange emergency stop button.

Suffice it to say, I CANNOT WAIT to play OutRun 2 and test out your FFB effects with this sucker! 

[Connorsdad]

I don't think those DD wheels are for me, can't justify the expense for an arcade racer, if I was looking for the full sim experience then maybe. They do look awesome but maybe a touch ott after watching that dude struggle with it

I like the feedback on my Sega Rally 2 cab, is there anything like that out there ? something that doesn't feel like a toy. Pity I can't try before I buy but no where has different wheels setup to try out.

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[Connorsdad]

I've read about and watched video reviews of the thrustmaster tx wheel in the past, supposedly a good wheel with a TH8A shifter and a set of T3PA pedals thrown into the mix. Anyone here have any hands on experience of this wheel ?

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[isamu]

My friend has the Thrustmaster wheel. It's....OK. You're still going to get that cheap sandy feel that plagues most of the consumer wheels, and the FFB, while an improvement on the Logitech G-series, is still nowhere near as strong as the arcade FFB wheels like your Sega Rally 2 wheel.

I know the exact kind of force feedback you're craving Cannonsdad. You want that silky smooth, notchy-less feeling and want to feel that same powerful torque that the Sega Rally 2 wheel delivers. Trust me when I tell you, neither of the cheaper PC wheels from Thrustmaster or Logitech will deliver this feeling. The closest you're probably going to get is probably the Fanatec CSW V2 wheel which I've heard good things about, and is pretty good for the price, though don't expect it to deliver power on par with the Sega Rally 2 wheel.



 

My advice is continue saving your money just a little bit more for something like the Accuforce DD wheel which is an excellent DD wheel for the price:


http://simxperience.com/en-us/products/accessories/accuforcesteering.aspx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAhSNtCSqBc&feature=youtu.be


If you are truly unwilling to explore the possibilities of a DD wheel or feel you just cannot justify the price, your options are quite limited I'm afraid if you hope to achieve the exact same feeling as your SR2 wheel.

Everyone is different and have their own threshold when it comes to what they're willing to spend for racing hardware, but I have read enough about DD wheels and have seen enough videos to know that a DD wheel is the only type of wheel that will satisfy *my* needs moving forward. The thought of playing some of my favorite arcade racers like OR2, Daytona USA, F-zero GX etc with a wheel of this caliber has me salivating at the mouth.


Good luck with your decision

[Howard_Casto]

Well he could sell the wheel he currently has, and use that to buy a model 2 wheel and hire someone to make the pcbs.  It would probably still be cheaper than most of the other solutions. 

If I could get a avr expert on board I think it would be possible to make a solution that's fairly universal.  You'd need a separate amp board to power the High voltage feedback motors in arcade games... but still I think it's possible.

[isamu]

interesting^

[BadMouth]

Well he could sell the wheel he currently has, and use that to buy a model 2 wheel and hire someone to make the pcbs.  It would probably still be cheaper than most of the other solutions. 

If I could get a avr expert on board I think it would be possible to make a solution that's fairly universal.  You'd need a separate amp board to power the High voltage feedback motors in arcade games... but still I think it's possible.

What gets me is that I've seen a couple youtube videos where it's already been done, but nobody seems to be sharing their work.

[Howard_Casto]

I've ran across some example code but the part where the force feedback commands are translated to simple left and right motor rotation is always missing.  That's the most important part and although I kludged together some movement in Outrun 2k6 using canned effects and some simple manipulation, that's hardly the way to do it, especially on the hardware end. 

So it's really the FF bit that's holding me back.....  I already have the HID wheel part working and it's fairly simple to implement. 

[isamu]

I don't think those DD wheels are for me, can't justify the expense for an arcade racer, if I was looking for the full sim experience then maybe. They do look awesome but maybe a touch ott after watching that dude struggle with it

I like the feedback on my Sega Rally 2 cab, is there anything like that out there ? something that doesn't feel like a toy. Pity I can't try before I buy but no where has different wheels setup to try out.

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Hey Connors what wheel did you wind up going with bro? Reply back and let us know we're curious 

[Connorsdad]

Sold my racing cabs just over a month ago due to not getting used

Therefore didn't buy any wheel in the end.

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[isamu]

Sold my racing cabs just over a month ago due to not getting used

Therefore didn't buy any wheel in the end.

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I know the feels bro. That sucks. Hope you decide to build another cab someday. 

[MTPPC]

I think if you want FF on a multi-game, you should probably buy a logitech wheel. If you want FF on a commercial grade wheel, buy the exact game you want and use engineered, tested products. The last thing I want is to watch someone get injured while trying to play a game.