My Jack Daniel's Barrel of Kong - 60 in 1 lag time on the monitor

[The Dude]

Hey everyone, I apologize if this has been discussed to death but I can't find anything on it. Basically what I'm having problem with is the lag time on my monitor from my 60 in 1. I'm using the VGA cable and its hooked up to an LCD computer monitor. I've checked and looked at it but I can't figure out what's going on to make it have the lag time. It's basically an 1/4 of a second off which is horrible for almost every game I've played on it. Any idea what would cause this?

I'd appreciate any help here. Thanks

[cadillacman]

Welcome to the world of cheap multiboards....  I really don't think there's a fix for this..

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[behrmr]

60 in 1 with an LCD is unstable due to lag.  Move to a VGA CRT and it is a little better. Arcade CRT standard res is best.


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[big10p]

I've never had any video lag with a multi board. The main problem is they look s**t on an LCD. There are cheapo knock-off multi boards about, so maybe this is the problem?

[The Dude]

I knew going into it the image would be crap, that's why I'm using the mini SLG-VGA scanline generator form CraftyMech. It's amazing how much better the picture looks with the lines added back into it. That said, are the 60 in 1's that bad? I bought my Jamma Harness and cocktail table 60 in 1 about a year and a half ago (this has been a work in progress for some time). Is there no way to fix the issue?

Just so you guys know what I’m working with I started about a year ago collecting the pieces for this project. It’s my first attempt at any arcade and I was inspired by Maximus’ “Barrel of Kong”. I used a rough Jack Daniel’s barrel that I picked up at the shop outside of the distillery in Lynchburg, TN.

Below are my finished pics. I encased the monitor with a wooden frame and put a 3/4" recess into the top of the barrel to support it.


And MODS feel free to move this to another section if it needs to go there.

[big10p]

I don't usually like novelty cabs much but yours is actually really nice. Good job! 

In my experience, the 60-in-1 (and older 48-in-1) boards are actually better (apart from sound on some games) than the newer, bigger multi boards, like the Game Elf and Pandora's Box. Not sure why you're getting this issue. Is just the video lagging, or is it sound and controls, too? Got a pic of you 60-in-1? Is it plugged into a VGA port on the monitor or are you using some kind of adapter?

[The Dude]

It's just that the controls and video are not in sync, the sound seems fine. It's just a hair off but it's really noticeable. As far as the hook up is concerned I'm running the VGA straight from the 60 in 1 through the SLG-VGA to the VGA directly to my monitor. If I remove the scanline generator it doesn't change a thing, the lag is still there.

I'll post pics of the 60 in 1 this evening and post them.

Thanks for the compliment on the cab too. 

[big10p]

Well, MAME (which these boards run a hacked version of) does have some inherent lag which tends to be more noticeable on some games. Maybe you're just more tuned in to noticing it, than others? Do other people playing your cab notice it?

One thing that springs to mind is the dip switch to set the video output: make sure it's set to VGA. I think it still outputs via the VGA socket, even when set to CGA. Just guessing here, but maybe that makes a difference?!

Also, make sure it's set to Normal Mode operation, and not Test Mode.

[The Dude]

I'm definitely not the only person who notices it

I'm not sure about the dipswitch setting though. I just read that #2 should be on for VGA so I'll go home and see if mine is set there and if not correct it. Thank you for that bit of info, hopefully that will help!

[DeLuSioNal29]

1/4 of a second is a LOONG time.  Are you sure you have the micro switches and quick disconnects hooked up correctly?

It should be hooked up to common (ground) and N.O. (Normally Open).  NOT N.C. (Normally Closed).


D

[Nephasth]

Best example of a barrel multicade I've seen yet.

[behrmr]

I'm definitely not the only person who notices it

I'm not sure about the dipswitch setting though. I just read that #2 should be on for VGA so I'll go home and see if mine is set there and if not correct it. Thank you for that bit of info, hopefully that will help!

If you had the switch in the CGA position your VGA monitor would not sync as it puts out 15khz on the VGA and JAMMA outputs when that dip is set. 

The lag is from your LCD monitor and the frame skipping in this implementation of MAME.  Add those two together and you get a big lag.  did you try playing pac-man and went left but your guy went straight and got eaten right after everything gets fast between the 2nd and 3rd intermissions?  That's one of the many but easily tested symptoms. 

If you have a PC CRT laying around try that and you'll notice that it is slightly better.  If you have an Arcade CRT std res. that you could test with you would see most of that lag is gone.

[The Dude]

Thank for the compliment Nephasth

I'll check the connection as soon as I get home DeLuSioNal29. I'm pretty sure I have that right but at this point and my inexperience with Arcades it wouldn't surprise me.

And behrmr, I unfortunately do not have a PC CRT or Arcade version. After I check the dipswitch and Microswitches I'll put on Pac-man and see if that happens. I really hope there's a fix to this because I really don't want to have to change that LCD screen. It was one helluva job to get it to fit and make the case for it.

I should have an update this evening and I'll post pics of the board and internal set-up for anyone who is interested in what I made.

[big10p]

I'm definitely not the only person who notices it

I'm not sure about the dipswitch setting though. I just read that #2 should be on for VGA so I'll go home and see if mine is set there and if not correct it. Thank you for that bit of info, hopefully that will help!

If you had the switch in the CGA position your VGA monitor would not sync as it puts out 15khz on the VGA and JAMMA outputs when that dip is set.

You sure about that? I'm sure multi boards like the Game Elf output a 31Khz signal on the VGA port, regardless of the dip switch setting, which is only for setting output via JAMMA edge. Might be different with the 60-in-1 though - been a while since I had one so can't remember, TBH.

[behrmr]

I'm definitely not the only person who notices it

I'm not sure about the dipswitch setting though. I just read that #2 should be on for VGA so I'll go home and see if mine is set there and if not correct it. Thank you for that bit of info, hopefully that will help!

If you had the switch in the CGA position your VGA monitor would not sync as it puts out 15khz on the VGA and JAMMA outputs when that dip is set.

You sure about that? I'm sure multi boards like the Game Elf output a 31Khz signal on the VGA port, regardless of the dip switch setting, which is only for setting output via JAMMA edge. Might be different with the 60-in-1 though - been a while since I had one so can't remember, TBH.

99.68%

[big10p]

Good call on checking the microswitch wiring, BTW, if you're only getting lag when pressing buttons. If the joystick switches were connected wrongly, it'd be immediately apparent.

[The Dude]

I got home last night and ran through everything and it was the connection on the microswitches

Thank you DeLuSioNal29 for that!!!

I also flipped the dipswitch again on the board and want into the main screen to save the update. That also seeme dto have triggered something because the game finally plays correctly. Again thank you all for the help.

This has been on heckuva headache for a while now.

Below are a few more pics of the inside, plus a nice pic of my bad wiring with the buttons
(That section actually has a panel that covers the wiring and is stained to match)

I took one shot of the mitered corner to show how many angles had to be cut for the play top to fit snug. The barrel is made from white oak so I had to use a matching white oak for the side arms. My only regret is that he grain on the side arms is horizontal vs. the vertical grain on the barrel. I had to cut it this way for the integrity of the support arms though.

I also added a pic of both sides of the monitor to show how the case was made for it. In the corner of the pic you can see where the top of the barrel was cut and recessed to allow for the monitor to rest.

[big10p]

Glad you got it sorted. You're not the first, and won't be the last, to make that mistake with wiring. 

Really well made barrel cab you've made, there.  Are you a carpenter/joiner? And for what its worth, I think the grain is going the right way.

[The Dude]

I dabble in carpentry. One of my really good friends though... the guy's a miracle worker. While I did most of the work he guided me along the way. We had already built a movie replica bar cabinet for my bonus room before we started this. It was a copy of the bar in Nepal from the beginning of Raider's of the Lost Ark. What's nice is that it's furniture grade so my wife doesn't complain

[Ginsu Victim]

We had already built a movie replica bar cabinet for my bonus room before we started this. It was a copy of the bar in Nepal from the beginning of Raider's of the Lost Ark.

Pics? I'd love to see this.

[DeLuSioNal29]

 
Glad to hear that you got it all sorted out!  I've used these boards with LCD's without issues in the past so I figured that the micro-switches had to be the culprit, especially for that long of a duration of lag.  I'm assuming the pic below was BEFORE you corrected the connections.  It's clear in this pic that they are connected to the wrong terminals:


Enjoy your machine!

DeLuSioNaL29

[The Dude]

Yeah DeLuSioNal29, that was a before pic

[The Dude]

Here's a pic of the build in progress.

[The Dude]

And to Ginsu Victim here's the bar top with the movie screen shot for reference.

[The Dude]

Here's the bar top. This is an old picture I've changed it a lot since then and it's currently getting an LED upgrade. If you look behind the bottles there is a lattice work with a mirror behind it. The movie had an open room behind the bar so the bottles were lit by that ambient light. To replicate that I placed a mirror behind the lattice work and installed LED lights below the bottles. That said I'm upgrading the lights at the moment to a better quality and hopefully a better result. When the lights are dim it looks a lot better... and yeah, the LED lights are on a dimmer switch.

[The Dude]

And finally here's the Bar tap for the kegerator.... (Mods I apologize for the many posts with pics. I'm having issues with posting pics  )

[ChanceKJ]

As I mentioned in the other thread, I LOVE this build. You may have not done it first, but you did it BEST. This deserves a better multi-board. I'd say drop an ArcadeSD in this thing and call it a day.

[The Dude]

I just had to look the ArcadeSD up.... Dear Lord that looks awesome. It's a bit more than I thought it would be but with all its abilities I think it might be worth my investment. Plus it has Tutenkham and I haven't played that in ages. Thanks for the heads-up on that board

[ChanceKJ]

No worries,

Yeah, not cheap, but after plugging mine in I never looked back.

[Nephasth]

Nah, the ArcadeSD is ---smurfing--- expensive for a vertical monitor setup. When you get some time, set up MAME with a decent front end on a computer you found for free and pick what 3 button vert games you want it to play.

[vwalbridge]

Plus it has Tutenkham and I haven't played that in ages.

Yes! A fellow Tutenkham guy.  I love that game but it's so damned hard.

[Ginsu Victim]

And to Ginsu Victim here's the bar top with the movie screen shot for reference.

I need no reference for Raiders! It's in my top ten movies of all time.