Is this too much for Buttons?

[Porcarom28]

Looking to do a 4 player pedestal build with 6 buttons per player, a track ball, and 2 guns. Is this too much to be spending on buttons?
I am buying from SuzoHapp.com

Item Information Qty Available Qty Price Extended
Blue Pushbutton with Horizontal Microswitch $2.70 $16.20
Red Pushbutton with Horizontal Microswitch $2.70 $16.20 Yellow Pushbutton with Horizontal Microswitch
$2.70 $16.20
Green Pushbutton with Horizontal Microswitch
$2.70 $16.20
1 Player Pushbutton, White
$2.85 $2.85
2 Player Pushbutton, White
$2.85 $2.85
3 Player Pushbutton, White
$2.85 $2.85
4 Player Pushbutton, White
$2.85 $2.85
Black Ultimate 8-Way Joystick, with Microswitches
$10.00 $40.00
Large Round Red IPB, 14V #161 Lamp, .250 Microswitch
$7.60 $7.60
Large Round Blue IPB, 14V #161 Lamp, .250 Microswitch
$7.60 $7.60
Large Round Yellow IPB, 14V #161 Lamp, .250 Microswitch $7.20 $7.20
Large Round Green IPB, 14V #161 Lamp, .250 Microswitch
$7.20 $7.20
3" Diameter Highball Trackball, White Solid $108.65 $108.65 Large Round White IPB, 14V #161 Lamp, .250 Microswitch
$7.20 $28.80
Empty Cart Total: $283.25 Checkout

[Porcarom28]

Is an Ipac 4 sufficient for this build?

[drventure]

An IPAC4 should be fine for a typical 4 player CP. That's what I used in mine and I've got extra buttons for dedicated up down left right, and pinball buttons, plus a pinball plunger and several admin buttons.

The IPAC won't control the trackball, but the USB connected trackballs work great and don't require a separate controller.

The trackball is actually where most of the money is, and that's about right, those things cost $$$

The button prices seem about right, you might get em a little cheaper but not much.

[drventure]

While you're at it, you might consider a spinner. Again, you can get USB connected spinners that won't require an extra controller, so you'll still be good with an IPAC.

A spinner opens up a few more games, if you're already going with a big 4p cp.

[Porcarom28]

Thank you for you help. Do you recommend a link to a spinner to buy?

Also, what games are used for a spinner?

[BadMouth]

Thank you for you help. Do you recommend a link to a spinner to buy?

Also, what games are used for a spinner?

List of spinner games:
http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Spinners

Personally, I don't care for any of the spinner games.
I only ever used it for driving games and didn't bother putting one on my current cab.

As far as buttons and stuff go, I think you'll have a better experience ordering from groovygamegear.com, ultimarc.com, or arcadeemulator.net rather than directly from Happ.

[Ginsu Victim]

As far as buttons and stuff go, I think you'll have a better experience ordering from groovygamegear.com, ultimarc.com, or arcadeemulator.net rather than directly from Happ.

This. All three vendors are highly recommended.

[Porcarom28]

As far as buttons and stuff go, I think you'll have a better experience ordering from groovygamegear.com, ultimarc.com, or arcadeemulator.net rather than directly from Happ.

This. All three vendors are highly recommended.

I found some buttons on http://www.focusattack.com

Are they reliable
Much thanks

-Newbie

[yotsuya]

$300 for buttons? 

My answer to your question is "Yes." 

[BadMouth]

As far as buttons and stuff go, I think you'll have a better experience ordering from groovygamegear.com, ultimarc.com, or arcadeemulator.net rather than directly from Happ.

This. All three vendors are highly recommended.

I found some buttons on http://www.focusattack.com

Are they reliable
Much thanks

-Newbie

Yes.  I order my Japanese parts from there.  Always good communication and fast delivery (they are located in my state).
They just started selling the American style controls this year. 

I still buy my American style stuff from groovygamegear because I've had nothing but positive experiences in the past and the owner is active on this forum.

[drventure]

$300 for buttons? 

My answer to your question is "Yes." 

Well, his estimate included a track ball and joysticks as well, so it's not quite 300$ for buttons. Yeah, that was my first thought too!

[drventure]

As far as buttons and stuff go, I think you'll have a better experience ordering from groovygamegear.com, ultimarc.com, or arcadeemulator.net rather than directly from Happ.

This. All three vendors are highly recommended.

+1 for this, I've ordered from both Groovy and Ultimarc, wonderful experience.

[drventure]

Thank you for you help. Do you recommend a link to a spinner to buy?

Badmouth pointed to a list of spinner games. Tempest is probably my favorite, but Cameltry is fun too.

As for spinner, I really like the

https://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.html

[mgb]

You're best off not ordering straight from SuzoHapp.
As already said, order from one of the other guys.

Focusattack is great.

Are you using 6 buttons for all players, even 3&4.
For arcade games its not needed.

[Porcarom28]

You're best off not ordering straight from SuzoHapp.
As already said, order from one of the other guys.

Focusattack is great.

Are you using 6 buttons for all players, even 3&4.
For arcade games its not needed.

I know. I am new to Mame and have caught the bug. I want to build one nice Pedestal with a TV wall mounted in my basement. Want to have everything ranging from Pacman to newer games, maybe up to PS2 so I want to have one nice build since it will probably be my only one.

Can anyone Recommend guns for Time Crisis or House of the Dead?

[yotsuya]

$300 for buttons? 

My answer to your question is "Yes." 

Well, his estimate included a track ball and joysticks as well, so it's not quite 300$ for buttons. Yeah, that was my first thought too!

Didn't see the trackball and joys. Yeah, that's a bit better!

[BadMouth]

You're best off not ordering straight from SuzoHapp.
As already said, order from one of the other guys.

Focusattack is great.

Are you using 6 buttons for all players, even 3&4.
For arcade games its not needed.

I know. I am new to Mame and have caught the bug. I want to build one nice Pedestal with a TV wall mounted in my basement. Want to have everything ranging from Pacman to newer games, maybe up to PS2 so I want to have one nice build since it will probably be my only one.

Can anyone Recommend guns for Time Crisis or House of the Dead?

use the search function

[harveybirdman]

dude, don't build a 4 player cab with gun, trackball, and spinner support....

[lamprey]

dude, don't build a 4 player cab with gun, trackball, and spinner support....

Why not? Maybe you can talk about why YOU wouldn't and let the OP decide. I don't see anything wrong with it.

[harveybirdman]

4 player cabs are impractical

I don't think I'm making a biased assumption in stating that the mean age of arcade builders is late 30's, have familial responsibilities, and many have demanding careers.  What is the likelihood that given this you will ever have three of your friends at your house at the same time, let alone be able to spend an hour or two clearing TMNT 2, but hey you could if you wanted to right?

Each set up for both controls and game types has it's own set of design challenges.

Playing horizontal and Vertical games on same cabinet = set of challenges = requires compromise
Using light guns = set of challenges = requires compromise
4 Way and 8 Way in the same cabinet = set of challenges = requires compromise
And so on and so on....

Before you know it, you've compromised A WHOLE LOT!

Trackball and Spinner placement conflicts

Make a list of the games you want to play with a track ball then do the same for a spinner.  Look at the native CP's for those cabinets.  Where is the spinner located?  the trackball?  Now imagine them on the same cabinet.  Suddenly the real estate of your panel needs to be increased or you have to make unnatural looking control groupings which brings me to my major point.

Frankenpaenls are Aesthetically disastrous.

Forget for a moment that no one besides you is going to intuitively understand how to play games on your cab, pretty dumb when you expect that three of your "friends" are going to be over at any moment to play.  One of the coolest things about this hobby is the elegant engineering that goes into creating arcade experiences that pay homage to a certain time in video gaming history.  Even if they are designed around something that didn't exist in the wild one of the things that is absolutely fascinating is how eloquently that medium can be channeled into new designs.  When I think of my favorite builds on this site, one thing that they all have in common is that the builder captured that arcade essence.  To me all of that magic is crumpled up on the floor and spit on when you make a panel that is wider than your cab so you can play alls the gamez.



I think people should have higher levels of aspiration in this hobby, and shouldn't cop out by saying "I only have space for one cab so it has to do everything" Whatever!  You're not going to play even a sixth of all the games you are going to put on there, and even worse you run the risk of perpetuating poor design and fallacy as other novice builders research their own builds.

[JimmyU]

If you need a trackball, I have a 3" non-highball Happs one I could sell you for $30.

[mgb]

Harveybirdman,
   I agree to a large extent with what you said.
I personally have no need for a 4 player cab and I really don't care for them.

But some do have good use for them. For all we know, the op regularly will have people over for 4 player games.

But to the op and others just getting into this hobby, it is best to look at it from the point of what games are important to you.
It's far better to have a cabinet that plays 200 games nicely rather than a cab that plays 2000 games like crap.

I think a lot of people come in (I know I originally did) thinking I wanna play them all.
Some people even think they need a 4 player cp in order to even play Gauntlet, TMNT, Simpsons or Goldenaxe period. But truth is there are 2 player rom versions available.
I cut a lot of fat off my plans and ended up with a non crowded, great looking (imo) cp with 500+ games that play great.


Do yourself a favor and think about what games are most important to you.

[Green Giant]

While some of these are spot on at times, it is a bit extreme and they should really just be questions every new builder should ask.

4 player cabs are impractical

Only if you have a small family.  I am upgrading mine to a 4-player cab which will be in an office and most likely have 10+ people around it at playing times.  If I had 3 kids, a 4 player cab seems rather obvious.

Each set up for both controls and game types has it's own set of design challenges

Horizontal/vert games aren't an issue unless you put a pathetically small monitor in.
Light guns are fine, just requires a strong computer and somewhere to hide them when they never get used.
4/8 way switching is really just a cost thing these days.  Between U360s and servosticks, I think it is pretty easy to do.  Even a dedicated 4 way isn't horrible ugly if placed correctly, although a switching stick is best with minimal compromise.

Trackball and Spinner placement conflicts

Trackball placement as a whole is generally always great and has a clean look as a center piece from which the rest of the controls/artwork expands. 
Spinners are the problem because there is no really great place for them where it plays great and looks great.  But don't lump them together as some evil combination.

Frankenpaenls are Aesthetically disastrous.

Frankenpanels are both horribly bad and tastefully delightful.  How many people were inspired by Knievel even though his are mostly frankenpanels by definition.  In my opinion one of the most important things when designing a panel is proper proportions.  A frankenpanel can be just a joke or it can fit perfectly with the right cab.  A pedestal panel with only the standard fight layout just looks completely empty with only 2 players or no additional controls.

Compromise is necessary, but avoiding so many things outright is a bit extreme.

[Malenko]

Having build a 4 player cab, I feel qualified to retort.

RE: When will 4 people ever play it?
I have had friends over multiple times and we have cleared simpsons, both TMNTs, Xmen (many many many times), sunset riders and numerous others.  We play a ton of NHL open ice but a side note to that is we usually rotate 2 players at a time vs CPU to advance "season" progress. As for time, when you wanna play games with 3 friends you make time

RE: Controls
It doesnt have to be a super frankenpanel. My 4 player panel is the same size as a NBA Jam panel, and 4 regular sized adults fit around it comfortably.I dont have a dedicated 4 way but I dont think addressing things like 4 way controls has much to do with a 4 player cab but is a challenge of MAME cabs in general. As for trackballs and spinners, while the OP has them on his list, they arent prerequisites for 4 player cabs and again are more of a general MAME cab/frankenpanel discussion. my 4 player cab doesnt have them because I would never use them except maybe for arkanoid. Same thing for horz vs Vert , with a big enough monitor or some fancy rotating one, this is a moot point.


Re: Aesthetics
While I agree with you for the most part, it does come down to personal taste. I've made art for peoples cabs that I hated but its what they wanted. You also implied that either my friends are dumb, illiterate, or my instructions on the cab aren't clear. None of those are true. You cant really try to validate your point based completely on speculation. it doesnt take a genius to stand at the player 1 controls that has an 8 way and 3 buttons and figure out how to play xmen.

Re: All teh gamez
I agree I design my panels around what I want to play but there's no real harm in playing games a little different than the arcade, like neo geo games using an SF layout that only uses 1 button on the bottom row. The only issue I have with people trying to play everything is something along the lines of a tron stick and push pull spinner and then they never play the game. Its a waste of not only money, but space on the panel. This also is more of a generalized MAME/frankenpanel thing than a 4 player issue. Have 2 more players on the edge of a frankenpanel does exacerbate things though.


My core thought on 4 player cabs really boils down to "Do you think 3 or more people are going to play it enough to warrant making it a 4 player cab?" For me it was a yes, YMMV

[yotsuya]

[Vigo]

One thing I make a habit of is telling people is to just plan for lightguns last. They can be a pain in the butt, expensive and the benefit can be minimal when there are tons of lightgun games for consoles. Some of them are almost duplicates of the arcade versions.

The plus is guns usually can be added at about anytime without needing to do too much with the cabinet. My generic advice is build the cab without more planning than where lightguns would go if added. If lightguns are still on the menu and within the budget after everything else is done, go for it. Don't let it add to the chaos and money drain of everything else that needs to be set up.

[harveybirdman]

To be fair Mal, I've linked your cab to people asking how to do four player panels.

And all I said in passing was not to build a 4 player cab with light-gun, spinner, and trackball support,

Then lamprey suggested I was being an ass, so I figured I'd aggressively clarify my position.

I get the responses, though every example you guys have offered in retort is about ONE of these combinations and the design elements you have in place to account for issues.  Show me a cab that has everything the OP wants that's done well and I'll shut up.

If he comes back here maybe he'll read all this and put a bit more thought into the games that are really important to him, which is really all I wanted in the first place.

And I'm sure your friends aren't dumb Mal.... 

[Malenko]

And I'm sure your friends aren't dumb Mal....

To be fair, some of them are.

[lamprey]

Then lamprey suggested I was being an ass, so I figured I'd aggressively clarify my position.

I wasn't trying to suggest you are being an ass as all. If you have some insight as to why you think something works or doesn't it helps to elaborate. I seen too many of those types of blanket statements to take them seriously. So, I asked why you thought it was a bad idea. In fact, it was nice to see your reasoning and it probably helps people just starting our to hear that sort of thing as they may not have thought about certain aspects of their build.

But, at the end of the day, it's someone else's project and they can agree or disagree with you/me/anyone about what they want.

[TapeWormInYourGut]

I started out building a 4-player pedestal. I purchased 8x buttons for each player, 4 ultrastik 360's, a u-trak, and 2 aimtraks. I wanted to be able to play the console games.

I cut, drilled, and painted the control panel top. Then scrapped it. A 4-players build is just massive in size and ugly to look at. So instead, I am making a 2-player build and then creating separate pedestals for player 3 and 4, which I can put in the closet when they are not used.

They really are ugly and take up a ton of space.