Mortal Kombat X - Configure Controls w/ IPAC?

[bulbousbeard]

But just to put a pin in this argument once and for all, competitive fighting game players often use ps3 or 360 compatible fight sticks for practice, even if they practice on the pc... so if it's good enough for them.....

That was my original thought on the matter too. The PS360+ seems to be the gold standard for custom flight-sticks within the FGC so I was planning on swapping from the i-pac to a pair of those. If anyone is obsessive about lag it's competitive gamers. I'd suspect if there were any real problems they'd be people within that community making a stink about it.

In any case, I'm anxious to see what kind of results Calamity comes up with in his test between a keyboard input and an X360 pad, hopefully it can put this debate to rest.

Competitive gamers aren't all they're cracked up to be in terms of pickiness, really. Actually, the console versions of Street Fighter IV, for example, are very laggy. They're noticeably more laggy than playing SF4 on a PC at 144hz. Just because competitive gamers don't use it doesn't mean it's not better. Competitive gamers just go where the money is, and the money is coming from console manufacturers, so it's no surprise that they're playing gimp versions of the games.

[bulbousbeard]

It's not hardcoded to only support microsoft gamepads, I'm using a madcatz gamepad right now, it's just hardcoded to have inputs in a set order regardless of control type and even if an input isn't used, an "empty" slot is there so that there isn't any need to enumerate axis and what not.  There are different classes, like racing wheels and ect, BUT they use the same resolution of analog data, so the point is while that info is available to the developer, they can ignore it and still get good results.

So you'll always have x,y,z and rx,ry,rz even on devices that don't have those inputs like a fight pad.  There will always be a hat (dpad) and more importantly, button 1 is ALWAYS A, button 2 B, ect....  This is how modern games can just assign a layout automatically... a standardization of the button order makes things easier.  This is why it may appear that it's Microsoft only pads, because obviously a sony or Nintendo gamepad won't conform to this standard and thus won't get xinput approval.  Then again, I very much doubt those companies want to be xinput compliant. 

Sadly xinput might not be a thing long-term.... xb1 gamepads don't use xinput, but pc game developers like the standard so much that they are still using it for their games even though the 360 is last gen tech.

The Madcatz gamepads are just 360 guts internally. They _are_ 360 gamepads afaik.

[bulbousbeard]

Your GPU "example" isnt accurate either. From what I gather you are implying that only microsoft can make controllers that conform to "360 standards" when in fact I know that both Razer , Saitek, and MadCatz make controllers that work on 360 and by extension, the PC. As for encoders , the PS360+ encoder can function as  USB input for PC, PS3  and for 360 , and my Fanatec wheel works on PS3, 360 and PC. All 3rd party devices that work on PC and 360 with no Xinput emulators.

The MadCatz etc. gamepads you referenced are 360 pads internally. You even have to install Microsoft's 360 gamepad drivers for them to work. They're officially licensed Microsoft products. It's a pure scam. They're extorting licensing money off 3rd party console gamepad manufacturers and almost completely screwing over 3rd party PC gamepad manufacturers.

I'm willing to bet that nobody can find a single "native" XInput pad that isn't a Microsoft product internally and licensed by Microsoft.

See? This is why Microsoft gets away with this ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. It'd be laughable if it wasn't sad.

Geezus

[headkaze]

I had to smile when you linked that code example, because it doesn't work with Xbox 360 gamepads. 

It is not as easy as you think it is. Like you said, if it was, gamepads would use Raw Input in MAME today.

It does work with an XBox 360 gamepad. It just needs a little modification (my first post in this thread gave you a hint).

Try changing this:

Code: [Select]

case WM_CREATE:
{
RAWINPUTDEVICE rid[2];

rid[0].usUsagePage = HID_USAGE_PAGE_GENERIC;
rid[0].usUsage = HID_USAGE_GENERIC_JOYSTICK;
rid[0].dwFlags = 0;
rid[0].hwndTarget = hWnd;

rid[1].usUsagePage = HID_USAGE_PAGE_GENERIC;
rid[1].usUsage = HID_USAGE_GENERIC_GAMEPAD;
rid[1].dwFlags = 0;
rid[1].hwndTarget = hWnd;

if(!RegisterRawInputDevices(rid, 2, sizeof(RAWINPUTDEVICE)))
return -1;
}
return 0;
Note the addition of the HID_USAGE_GENERIC_GAMEPAD registration. His original code only registered HID_USAGE_GENERIC_JOYSTICK which will not work with an XBox 360 controller.

Also his code for normalising axis data is lame but with a little work you could get it working fine (albeit with raw uncalibrated data).

So now back to the question... why doesn't MAME use RawInput for gamepads today when clearly it's possible (and just as easy as reading keyboard or mouse)?

[bulbousbeard]

Still doesn't work here. Not buying it.

[headkaze]

Still doesn't work here. Not buying it.

I have it working with an XBox 360 controller here. I don't know what else to tell you

EDIT: Attached a photo

[bulbousbeard]

I have an Xbox 360 SF4 fight stick, and it doesn't work. I'm telling you: it isn't as easy as you think it is. Some gamepads are just randomly not going to work with that solution. There's a reason it's not in MAME.

[Malenko]

The real problem is with emulation, you're guaranteed at least 1 frame of extra input lag over the real hardware _to begin with_. You have to eliminate lag anywhere you can to make emulation good.

And what does emulation have to do with Mortal Kombat X?

[bulbousbeard]

The real problem is with emulation, you're guaranteed at least 1 frame of extra input lag over the real hardware _to begin with_. You have to eliminate lag anywhere you can to make emulation good.

And what does emulation have to do with Mortal Kombat X?

We're obviously not talking about just Mortal Kombat anymore, although MK10's apparently ---smurfy--- keyboard support is reason enough to skip the game entirely.

[Malenko]

We're obviously not talking about just Mortal Kombat anymore, although MK10's apparently ---smurfy--- keyboard support is reason enough to skip the game entirely.

You are right, its impossible to alter a game once its been released to the public 

[bulbousbeard]

The only way it's going to get changed, in fact, is if people skip the game.

[twistedsymphony]

And what does emulation have to do with Mortal Kombat X?

We're obviously not talking about just Mortal Kombat anymore, although MK10's apparently ---smurfy--- keyboard support is reason enough to skip the game entirely.

Going back to the original topic, I've been unable to get MKX to remap keys for use with my ipac setup, player 2 in particular seems to be ignored... you said in your first post that it was working fine for you. I'm curious if you'd share your secret as to how you got it to work.

[Malenko]

The only way it's going to get changed, in fact, is if people skip the game.

or complain to the dev and it gets fixed, like they did with Street Fighter IV

[Howard_Casto]

Eh the game isn't finished yet.  A very sad, but very true fact about modern games is that they are released broken and don't really get to a good, playable state, until the last patch is released.  Whenever the final bit of DLC is released there will be a final cleanup patch and then we can judge it.  Right now the game stutters due to a locked frame rate on most people's machines. 

I seriously doubt keyboard support is a priority though. 

Just for a second pretend we aren't who we are and are instead the typical pc gamer.  Now obviously you can't play a fighter on a keyboard so you'll be picking up a gamepad or fight stick or what have you.  NRS and HVS are probably thinking the same way.  Keyboard encoders are kind of an underground, niche device only used by guys like us and possibly people in the sim community.  Now I'm not making excuses for them, it still isn't a good idea to release a game that can't be played with the default input device for the platform, but considering you can't really play on a keyboard anyway.....

[headkaze]

remember that MAME does not support XInput natively

I noticed in Mame 0161 makefile a new pre-processor macro called "NO_USE_XINPUT". I haven't looked much further into it just yet but it does imply they have implemented XInput support.

[bulbousbeard]

remember that MAME does not support XInput natively

I noticed in Mame 0161 makefile a new pre-processor macro called "NO_USE_XINPUT". I haven't looked much further into it just yet but it does imply they have implemented XInput support.

That's referring to Linux X Windows. It's not Microsoft's crapola.

Can you send me the binary and code for the Raw Input demo that is working on your machine?

[headkaze]

That's referring to Linux X Windows. It's not Microsoft's crapola.

Can you send me the binary and code for the Raw Input demo that is working on your machine?

It's funny I never noticed the macro before so it looked like something new to me, but alas you're right, it's nothing to do with Microsoft's XInput.

You can download the source from here which includes a Visual Studio 2012 project file. The only modification I made was the one I posted. Just be aware the axis normalisation code is not right for XBox 360 controllers because centre is not "0". Also note that this code will not detect joysticks under Remote Desktop and I am yet to discover why (for keyboard and mice RawInput will detect special RDP drivers). Not being able to use Remote Desktop has turned me off attempting to implement support in my own engine. I think I'll stick with keyboard and mice support in RawInput and use DirectInput (and perhaps XInput) for joystick support. Yes I had RawInput support in GameEx Evo before you had it in Big Blue

[bulbousbeard]

Just be aware the axis normalisation code is not right for XBox 360 controllers because centre is not "0".

I thought there was a standard for joystick data.  I still think that Raw Input support will be putting in 200 different cases for different joysticks to work properly.

[headkaze]

I thought there was a standard for joystick data.  I still think that Raw Input support will be putting in 200 different cases for different joysticks to work properly.

There is a standard. As I said the example doesn't normalise the data correctly. Each axis has a min/max value. You need to use this data to convert it into whatever range you want by normalising it. How do you think DirectInput works? It doesn't hard-code values for each type of joystick.

So does the example work for your Xbox 360 SF4 fight stick?

[Howard_Casto]

I thought there was a standard for joystick data.  I still think that Raw Input support will be putting in 200 different cases for different joysticks to work properly.

Ok, I've tried to be nice and bite my tongue.

If you insist on hammering a nail with a rock, you can't very well complain that the rock isn't doing a great job.  Using raw input for managed devices when there isn't a need is an all around bass ackwards way of doing things.  People use raw input for devices because they have no other choice, like in my troubleshooter 2 or in mame where it's the only way to read individual mice and keyboards... they don't do it because it's a convenient way of reading devices. 

[SirTrentinton]

G'day Guys,

Looks like this topic got derailed for a little while there......
... but still hopeful a solution could be found?

Just completed my arcade before MKX would release, thinking it would be the game I will sink most of my hours into.
So could could understand my disappointment when i was relegated back to playing it on my laptop with a plug in Xbox 360 controller.
Still love the game, lots of fun, but looking over the top of my laptop screen at my arcade gathering dust is a little disheartening 

I have already tried a few workarounds with no success, most likely to work was via X360ce but it does not accept keyboard inputs, only Gamepad inputs.
Also tried IPAC-->VJoy-->X360ce but couldn't get the programs to play nice.

If anyone has found a working configuration it would be much appreciated! 

[Howard_Casto]

Well like I said, and I know this ticks people off... the solution is to convert your cab to use 360 gamepad guts.  Ever notice how any time there is a pc game released in the arcade style a thread pops up on how to get it to work with keyboard controls?  Have you ever had any trouble playing or configuring these games with a 360 gamepad?   If you want to play modern pc games on your cab, the most straightforward, hassle-free solution is to have your controls show up as a 360 gamepad.  I'm converting mine as soon as I get a chance.... buy two wired pads... you are out maybe 40 bucks and an afternoon to solder on leads.  Then I don't have to hack the games to play them anymore. 

[Malenko]

I have to agree. If I ever decided to play PC games on my MAME cab, I'd swap out the IPAC for a couple of hacked controllers.  If you can't solder multiple people offer pad hacking service, like Haruman.

I play PC games on my main PC, cause I like sitting down with a controller too.

[SirTrentinton]

Thanks for the speedy reply!

Yeah, part of me knew that...... just when i thought i was finished with this build haha

I'm still hopeful i'll be able to find a workaround in the software side of things, as this is the only current PC title that i'm likely to play on my cab (until Street Fighter V of course).
If not i guess I know my what i'll be doing next night shift in the workshop....

If I do manage to find a workaround I'll be sure to post it up. 

Thanks Guys

[headkaze]

If it's possible I do intend on updating VJoy to report back the game pads as two XBox 360 pads. That should mean it will work for games like this.

[Howard_Casto]

Here is what I'm going to try most likely....

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Versus-Controller/dp/B0051MQJWU/ref=sr_1_49?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1432013265&sr=1-49&keywords=arcade+stick

People hated the d-pad on these things and thus you can get them for peanuts.  Start, Back, LT and RT all have their own leads and the dpad (if you can call it that) uses microswitches, so it should be quite easy to hack.  For 10 bucks it's worth a try anyway.

[twistedsymphony]

Here is what I'm going to try most likely....

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Versus-Controller/dp/B0051MQJWU/ref=sr_1_49?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1432013265&sr=1-49&keywords=arcade+stick

People hated the d-pad on these things and thus you can get them for peanuts.  Start, Back, LT and RT all have their own leads and the dpad (if you can call it that) uses microswitches, so it should be quite easy to hack.  For 10 bucks it's worth a try anyway.

wow those are cheap, and if LT and RT are common ground buttons instead of analog it makes it even easier to pad-hack.

Nice find.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah I've started to re-evaluate things this past year in terms of how I spend my free time.  A software solution would be ideal to my cheapness, but I'm sure it would snowball out of control, having to constantly update when an oddball game comes out that just doesn't want to play nice for whatever reason, so hey.... 20 bucks total and the problem is solved... at least until something replaces the 360 gamepad  (xbox one controller has ZERO chance of doing that, so we probably have a while).

[twistedsymphony]

Yeah I've started to re-evaluate things this past year in terms of how I spend my free time.  A software solution would be ideal to my cheapness, but I'm sure it would snowball out of control, having to constantly update when an oddball game comes out that just doesn't want to play nice for whatever reason, so hey.... 20 bucks total and the problem is solved... at least until something replaces the 360 gamepad  (xbox one controller has ZERO chance of doing that, so we probably have a while).

Outside of the neitherealm games it'd make the TTX stuff way easier to setup as you could just have a joy2key script for each game's default key map.

I don't know if you've been following the lag test thread at all but vicosku performed some tests with an IPAC (through Raw Input) vs a Mayflash 360 stick (through Direct Input) and an IPAC vs a PS360+ and the results showed that in MAME there isn't a significant difference in lag.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,145174.0.html

Though interestingly there was a slight difference depending on the 360 pad being used with the MayFlash occasionally taking a frame longer than the IPAC and the PS360+ occasionally taking a frame LESS than the IPAC. No idea how these PDP pads would stack up to something like the PS360+

When I get some time I'll be switching my main cab over from IPAC to a couple of PS360+ boards since I already have a bunch of them kicking around.

[Howard_Casto]

That's to be expected, as the ps360+ isn't an "official" 360 gamepad, it doesn't have access to the decryption hardware and is probably having to use some sort of software-based solution.  Depending upon the hardware manufacturer of the pad and what chips are inside I suppose you might be able to bypass encryption entirely... that's just a guess though. 

Anyway 8ms vs 10ms.... lets put this in perspective for a minute.  The snes refresh input rate was 33ms for most games and the genesis was in that ballpark as well.  Didn't we play Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat just fine on those consoles?  People get confused because the poll rate is quite quick on those older systems, but typically the pads were only polled at the end or beginning of each frame, which means that any data inbetween.... yeah, it was never polled. 

I honestly doubt the refresh rate on a typical arcade pcb is much quicker either.  So yeah for modern pc games it might be an issue, but even then I doubt it.  2ms is frikkin inconsequential. 

Just out of curiosity, what's the going price on the ps360's and have you had good luck with them ect?  I'm always a bit leery to buy homebrew adaptors. 

[vicosku]

2ms is frikkin inconsequential. 

Completely agreed.  And thanks for the SNES information.  That's interesting.  The theorized 2ms difference that caused an occasional full 16.77ms frame delay was merely a finding that showed a slight difference between a Mayflash PCB and the superior IPAC/PS360+ results.  Whether that really matters is a different topic, but I agree that it's too small to notice, myself.  After all, after I started testing, I found out was running with an extra frame of lag I had no idea about previously.  It feels nice to have gotten rid of that one frame, but I can't really tell the difference.

[twistedsymphony]

Just out of curiosity, what's the going price on the ps360's and have you had good luck with them ect?  I'm always a bit leery to buy homebrew adaptors. 

They retail for $60 a piece + shipping ... if you can find them (most places seem perpetually out of stock or sell out as soon as they get them in).

I was looking to buy 2 of them and managed to find someone (custom joystick maker who was getting out of the business) who was selling 6 of them new for half price shipped for anyone willing to buy all 6. So I jumped on the deal. I've only cracked one open and played around with it a little bit but I haven't actually used any of them in a gaming situation yet. I plan to use 2 of them in my HyperSpin cab and 2 more for stand alone joysticks. I sold one to vicosku at my cost so he could run the lag test with it and I'll probably just keep the last one as a spare.

the interesting thing is that they've updated the firmware to improve these a couple of times now, at this point they support a large swath of major platforms (PS3, PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn, SNES, NES, Xbox 360, Original Xbox, and PC). Potentially once they figure out the PS4 and Xbox One security it could support those as well with just a firmware update.

EDIT:
Another popular PCB within the fighting game community is the "Multi-Console Cthulhu" PCB which is notable because it's only $34 instead of the PC360's $60 price tag but it doesn't support Xbox 360 which is a deal breaker for most. Though it does support a few other consoles that the PS360 doesn't: PS3, PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn, NES, SNES, Original Xbox, PC AND GameCube, and TG-16 (maybe 3DO as well?)

The PS360+ supporting 360 and PS3 seemed to make it the defacto standard for custom and high end fighting sticks.

[Howard_Casto]

Useful info, thanks.  Yeah I've actually got a teensy lying around and in theory I could program it to support most of those consoles BUT...  360 support, due to aforementioned encrypted data, is a bit beyond me.  For the pc at least, that's the device you really want to emulate anyway.

[twistedsymphony]

Useful info, thanks.  Yeah I've actually got a teensy lying around and in theory I could program it to support most of those consoles BUT...  360 support, due to aforementioned encrypted data, is a bit beyond me.  For the pc at least, that's the device you really want to emulate anyway.

If I didn't already have these PS360s I'd definitely just be buying those $10 PDP pads instead

[Howard_Casto]

We are drifting pretty far away from the software section at this point but:

I found a site where someone was hacking up a higher-end pdp pad.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/129482/pdp-marvel-vs-capcom-3-fight-pad-pcb-diagram-not-suitable-for-dual-mod

So start and back look a bit hairy and of course the guide button and it's leds are always a pain in the butt, everything else on the other hand looks butt easy.  Heck the dpad has it's own ribbon cable.  Like I said, this is a higher end version, so the pcbs might not be identical, but if anything cheaper pads tend to have larger pcbs, so it's easier if anything.

[evh347]

I spent a couple hours on this today and I think I made some progress. I have an old SlikStik CO2 controller that I'm using.

Go here and read all about how painful it is to configure MKX controls with a PC:
http://www.xgaming.com/support/questions/137/Mortal+Kombat+X+and+Komplete+Edition+PC+Setup

When you get tired of reading that, go here read about the savior that is VJoy:
http://www.headsoft.com.au/index.php?category=vjoy

If you don't want to read, go straight to the VJoy Download:
http://www.headsoft.com.au/index.php?category=vjoy

You can download XArcade's custom INI file off the XArcade website (or just download mine here):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9q3xtaxy73jdeca/MKX-Arcade.ini?dl=0

Put the INI file (unzipped) in the same folder as wherever you installed VJoy.

My INI file mimicks an Xbox controller and I matched it with my SlikStik CO2 layout:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1coq40b1ui27gzw/MKX%20Controls.png?dl=0

Start VJoy and open up my INI file and now match my layout to yours. In the screenshot, I used trial/error to figure out which "button" corresponded to which Xbox controller button and therefore just inputted my own buttons within VJoy.

IMPORTANT: Make sure you check the box "Enabled" in VJoy and leave VJoy open (running in background) or it won't register when you go to open MKX.

Player 1 is VJoy "Virtual" Joystick 1 and player 2 is the other in the dropdown.
As long as VJoy is running in the background, you shouldn't have any issues while inside MKX. I was able to get in/out of menus and fights just fine.

Referring to my screenshot (and Player 1 keys specifically):

I mapped a key as recognized by my IPAC ("Z" for player 1 and "I" for Player 2) to bring up Moves/Options. I use the "A" (Green button on Xbox controller which is my "0" key on IPAC which is "Back Kick" to MKX) to Enter and the "B" (Red button on an Xbox controller which is my "X" key on IPAC which is "Forward Kick" to MKX) to Exit.

To bring up the Moves/Options, I mapped that to "Button 10" in VJoy, which is my "Z" key on my IPAC.

Just map something similar/mirror for Player 2.  It seems to work okay so far.

I used LEDBlinky to light up the buttons in their respective color so it makes it a bit easier to distinguish what does what:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ff49xlrp9awjb18/MyControlsMKX.png?dl=0

This might seem confusing, but it took me like 10 minutes to do. It took me 20 minutes to trial/error to figure out what button corresponds to what on the Xbox controller (in VJoy), and even longer to type this out.

No hacking controllers required.
Hope that helps people out until a better "fix" comes along. 

[BadMouth]

Due to Injustice, I caved a while back and switched to hacked xbox360 fightpads.
It works, but it's not the dream solution I thought it would be.

IMO, the most hassle free solution overall is still a keyboard encoder configured to not use any special keys (ALT, CTRL, etc) paired with the "SSFIV keyboard workaround" (x360kb) TheManuel linked to.  Just don't play the couple games that it won't work with.  If the x360ce guys would just add back keyboard support, all would be right with the world.

Hacked pad Pros: 

It is plug and play for most new pc games.
If the ID's get messed up, all you have to do is unplug them and replug them in the order you want.
4 player support (which is rarely supported for dinput devices.  You can use x360kb but it doesn't block buttons and you'll run out of keys that your CP doesn't use for the game's keyboard mapping)
Some PC games require you to press the spacebar or some other key to continue which you probably don't have mapped to your start or P1 first button.  The xbox A button always works on these screens.

Cons (most of which I didn't see coming):

Some emulators don't recognize the trigger buttons since they show up as an axis.
Some games require you to map all the buttons even if some do the same thing as combos.  In the case of at least one game this meant I had to trigger a button press for a button that wasn't wired to my CP.  Not a big deal to do once, but it was annoying (IIRC it was MKK, but I could be wrong).
Quite of few of the independent games (Limbo, Locomolito's games, a few others I can't remember) only get input from the thumbstick with no way to remap.  I don't want to have to switch between D-Pad and L-stick on the hacked gamepad PCB.  A workaround is on my to-do list.
Some newer PC games don't allow you to remap the controls if using an xbox360 pad (but if using the x360kb workaround with a keyboard encoder, you can change them in the kb ini file)  This was the case with castle crashers.  I couldn't play it anymore after switching to hacked pads because I only did 7 buttons.  The one I left out (LT) was required to play and couldn't be remapped.  I could play it just fine with a keyboard encoder and x360kb.


I know nothing about lag.  I do know that I can never seem to make the jumps on console games that I think I should be able to, but that happens with every input device.
I didn't bother putting any console emulators on my new cab.

[Howard_Casto]

Good stuff to know... a few solutions to your problems

You can use unofficial drivers to split out the axis as well as a few of the tools mentioned previously in this thread.  It isn't an ideal plug-n-play solution, but it is a solution.

You should always hack a pad to use the analog stick... this is counter-intuitive, but hat switches are rarely supported on the pc and that's what a dpad shows up as. This isn't so much a 360 problem but a legacy problem....interfacing with a hat on direct input (NOT Xinput) is a pain in the butt due to the oddball masking. 360 "fight sticks" generally have a switch to make the joystick show up as either the analog stick or dpad to help with this issue.

I'm not sure if not allowing you to remap controls is actually a problem... that's kind of the point, but I get what you are saying... be leery if you don't intend to use all the buttons.  Something to keep in mind is on a lot of the simpler games the screen might say only one button does an action but really a few do... like start generally works with start and the a button and often any button really.

[twistedsymphony]

...As long as VJoy is running in the background, you shouldn't have any issues while inside MKX. I was able to get in/out of menus and fights just fine.

I tried getting VJoy to work for hours, even used the X-Arcade INI with no luck. I know how to set it up because I use it successfully with several other games but MKX just ignores it. Is there some other patch or something that you're using on your setup to get it to recognize a virtual joystick?

Hacked pad Pros: 
...
If the ID's get messed up, all you have to do is unplug them and replug them in the order you want.

THAT IMO is not a pro but almost certainly a dealbreaker con. In order to unplug and plug back in the controllers on my setup I would have to pull the machine out from the wall and open the back up. not something I'd want to have to do every time the machine boots up with the controllers in the wrong order.

Most of the items on your con list can be fixed with Xpadder to emulate keyboard strokes with your game pads... in any instance where something has better keyboard support than joystick support then disable the joysticks for that game and use xpadder. This is particularly useful for Taito Type X games which primarily use a keyboard and not a joystick and many of which are difficult or impossible to remap.

My idea is to use the gamepads then setup Xpadder profiles for each game to map the controls to whatever the default keys are, in the instances where the game has poor keyboard support then I can use the gamepads natively in-game.

[Malenko]

Ive had 2 controllers plugged into my main PC and they've never lost their IDs even after numerous restarts. Plugged into the rear USB on board ports, no hubs or that kinda stuff.