Pinball Accerometers?

[newoski]

Hi Guys,

I've just built my first bartop and I'm contemplating putting an accelerometer into it for nudging...

Could someone link me to what I would need/some resources/info on how to set them up?

The U-HID looks pretty cool, but I don't quite understand how it works/if I would need anything else with it.

I'm new to the idea, but very interested!

Thanks

[keilmillerjr]

Howler has a built in accelerometer.

[newoski]

already using a minipac

need something compatible w that

[jaharr01]

Accelerometers are a pain in the ass to set up, the come out of calibration all the time. I would add a couple of mini buttons right in front of ur flipper buttons.

[PL1]

The U-HID looks pretty cool, but I don't quite understand how it works/if I would need anything else with it.

If you want to add an accelerometer, the UHID-G should be good.

Used one for my pinball controller (see sig) and GeoMan used one for this desktop controller.

Accelerometers are a pain in the ass to set up, the come out of calibration all the time. I would add a couple of mini buttons right in front of ur flipper buttons.

+1 on buttons being WAY more reliable than any accelerometer.

GeoMan had both in his build.

I added nudge buttons below/between the two flipper buttons on a (half completed) standalone controller build.

The current UHID-G firmware is reported to be more stable, but haven't upgraded it yet.   


Scott

[MTPPC]

I am a firm believer in the Microsoft sidewinder pro controller.

[BorgDog]

i have a MS freestyle pro in my minipin cab as well, works good, but occasionally needs to be recalibrated.  Also check out this thread for an inexpensive board that while the project started out as a DIY plunger, the freescale board it uses also has an accelerometer and also a limited number of button inputs.  My son-in-law uses the accelerometer on his pin cab and it works pretty good.

[jaharr01]

I am a firm believer in the Microsoft sidewinder pro controller.

I Think they would be better than that piece of crap that came with my plunger. My problem with nudge is I have to move the pin cab so much to get it to nudge. I would like to put some buttons on there instead, just haven't got around to it. The plunger set ups are cool but they are tricky to set up, as about everything in VP is. I find myself playing pinballfx2 alot. Those VP tables are hard as hell.

[spoot]

http://www.zebsboards.com/index.php/feedback-control-devices/plunger-detail is good option and has the plunger too.

[matsadona]

Or why not use the K.I.S.S method? 
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/pinball-machine4.htm

[jaharr01]

Or why not use the K.I.S.S method? 
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/pinball-machine4.htm

Rock and roll all night and party every day? That's the only K.I.S.S. method I have heard of

[matsadona]

Well, that too 

But I was referring to "Keep It Simple Stupid" today. I.e. why mimic something simple with an overcomplex solution when the simple real hardware could be used from start?

[keilmillerjr]

Well, that too 

But I was referring to "Keep It Simple Stupid" today. I.e. why mimic something simple with an overcomplex solution when the simple real hardware could be used from start?

The problem with using an actual pinball tilt mechanism in a software application is that you will not be able to influence the "tilt" of the play field and thus effecting the path of the ball. The tilt mechanism only alerts the game when a user is abusing or being too aggressive with the allotted amount of tilt in the game. This is why an accelerometer must be used in a software application. An accelerometer will be able to tell the software how much tilt is applied, not just when there is too much tilt.

[jaharr01]

Well that's not exactly true I found a thread where someone built a 3 direction nudge from a tilt sensor. I built a prototype and tested it a little. It worked okay but the location is very specific and it needs to be planned from the start. In theory if it is adjusted properly it would trigger either a left, right, or up or even left up or right up, if 2 switches were triggered at the same time. As you can see below it is a lead plum bob tilt sensor down inside a 2 inch pvc pipe with 3 bolts in it at 9-12-3 o'clock orientation. You adjust the sensitivity by adjusting the plum bob up and down .If it was much smaller in design it would a be better fit




http://www.amazon.com/Mercury-Tilt-Switch-0-3a-Pack/dp/B00O9QVM44/ref=pd_rhf_dp_s_cp_1_YFNS?ie=UTF8&refRID=0WCH6XA5AGR0BKXEFD8E
also you could orient three of these in 9-12-3 o'clock  positions.
This could also work it would be small but the adjustment may be difficult.

In theory mine was not bad in implementation. But honestly for two reasons I don't want to have to man handle my pinball machine and I also don't want to  take the chance on banging it into the wall or into another cabinet.
Jay
So I think that either route has it's ups and downs I prefer the button method

[BorgDog]

the problem with the plunger setup like that is that there is no sensitivity, you either nudge or you don't, just like pressing a button.  with an accelerometer it can tell how hard you nudge, more like a real table.  note I said more like, it is not perfect, but I am able to nudge a little or a lot.

[keilmillerjr]

Well that's not exactly true I found a thread where someone built a 3 direction nudge from a tilt sensor. I built a prototype and tested it a little. It worked okay but the location is very specific and it needs to be planned from the start. In theory if it is adjusted properly it would trigger either a left, right, or up or even left up or right up, if 2 switches were triggered at the same time. As you can see below it is a lead plum bob tilt sensor down inside a 2 inch pvc pipe with 3 bolts in it at 9-12-3 o'clock orientation. You adjust the sensitivity by adjusting the plum bob up and down .If it was much smaller in design it would a be better fit




http://www.amazon.com/Mercury-Tilt-Switch-0-3a-Pack/dp/B00O9QVM44/ref=pd_rhf_dp_s_cp_1_YFNS?ie=UTF8&refRID=0WCH6XA5AGR0BKXEFD8E
also you could orient three of these in 9-12-3 o'clock  positions.
This could also work it would be small but the adjustment may be difficult.

In theory mine was not bad in implementation. But honestly for two reasons I don't want to have to man handle my pinball machine and I also don't want to  take the chance on banging it into the wall or into another cabinet.
Jay
So I think that either route has it's ups and downs I prefer the button method

Your solution only tells the software which direction the tilt was. Basically no different than adding buttons to the machine. It in no way represents how an actual pinball tilt works.

[jaharr01]

Well there is a little difference in that the more play you put on the sensor the harder you have to move the machine to get it to nudge. It's not really as good of a solution as an analog accelerometer which plots the balls position.Buttons are definitely the most reliable option, but my set up does implement some mechanical aspects to the nudging.Although it's still not really a great option. I have a Nanotech plunger, which the plunger works well, but the accelerometer requires recalibration quite often. I haven't tried the sidewinder but I've heard good things. Until there is a better hardware option it will always be that way somewhat.

Jay

[MTPPC]

My first two pinsims used buttons to nudge. It was not so good because you can master any game. The sidewinder pro is the solution and I tried mercury switches, tilt bob before the controller.

[jaharr01]

I think I may try one, basically hook up to usb then set up in VP or whatever. You could probably get it to work in pinballfx2 with joy2key, maybe without.

[matsadona]

Well, this is a little bit out of my knowledge... But does VP have support for analog nudge input? If so then I second that an accelerometer is preferable.

Some years ago I tinkered with a U-hid, and what I can remember it was only a digital output when the nudge was beyond a specific threshold. And I never got the calibration and sensitivity right so I just added a button for it instead.
Later on I bought a digital plunger with an accelerometer, but it is still in the box unused waiting for a mini-pin build that never happens...

[jaharr01]

Yes I am 99%  sure but I will double check. Seems like there is like x, y, z axis for nudge in the settings, but i will check

[jaharr01]

http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=24397
Guide to setup analog and digital nudge

[AndyWarne]

The U-HID looks pretty cool, but I don't quite understand how it works/if I would need anything else with it.

If you want to add an accelerometer, the UHID-G should be good.

Used one for my pinball controller (see sig) and GeoMan used one for this desktop controller.

Accelerometers are a pain in the ass to set up, the come out of calibration all the time. I would add a couple of mini buttons right in front of ur flipper buttons.

+1 on buttons being WAY more reliable than any accelerometer.

GeoMan had both in his build.

I added nudge buttons below/between the two flipper buttons on a (half completed) standalone controller build.

The current UHID-G firmware is reported to be more stable, but haven't upgraded it yet.   


Scott

The U-HID G is discontinued. Our I-PAC Ultimate I/O has an accelerometer.

This new version uses an accelerometer which uses a nudge function built into the actual chip, rather than feeding analog signals from the chip into the interface and interpreting them to detect the nudge so should work better.

[matsadona]

Seems that I need to revisit my pincade plans It's been a while since I was browsing the vpforum articles and there seems to have been a huge progress.

[RandyT]

The biggest issue with accelerometers in a non-pinball cabinet application is the placement of the sensor and construction of the cabinet.  Pinball machines are a long box, held up by 4 fairly thin legs.  By their nature, they wiggle a bit, and aren't too difficult to shove around.  Standard arcade cabinets (even bartops) are usually designed to be pretty sturdy in the directions where pinball nudging forces are likely to be applied.  In a bartop, I'm not sure you would want to be sliding the unit around while playing either.

If nudging is a big part of how you play, the ultimate solution is to de-couple the panel from the cabinet and build some self-centering "slop" into the coupling of the control panel section to the cabinet, and build whatever nudging sensor solution you desire into that more easily movable section.

[lamprey]

If nudging is a big part of how you play, the ultimate solution is to de-couple the panel from the cabinet and build some self-centering "slop" into the coupling of the control panel section to the cabinet, and build whatever nudging sensor solution you desire into that more easily movable section.

Wouldn't the ultimate solution be to build a pin?

Not begrudging anyone, but I don't see the allure of trying to play pin on a standup/bartop.

[RandyT]

Wouldn't the ultimate solution be to build a pin?

Not begrudging anyone, but I don't see the allure of trying to play pin on a standup/bartop.

Actually, the ultimate solution would be to buy a large building and every real pinball machine you'd want to play .  Same problems, different scale.

[lamprey]

Wouldn't the ultimate solution be to build a pin?

Not begrudging anyone, but I don't see the allure of trying to play pin on a standup/bartop.

Actually, the ultimate solution would be to buy a large building and every real pinball machine you'd want to play .  Same problems, different scale.

Hehe, I'll dare to dream.

[keilmillerjr]

If nudging is a big part of how you play, the ultimate solution is to de-couple the panel from the cabinet and build some self-centering "slop" into the coupling of the control panel section to the cabinet, and build whatever nudging sensor solution you desire into that more easily movable section.

Wouldn't the ultimate solution be to build a pin?

Not begrudging anyone, but I don't see the allure of trying to play pin on a standup/bartop.

Wait. This thread is about pinball simulation on a bartop?!