Is it worth changing setup? ... (Vista options)

[Jollywest]

At the minute my setup is this;

AVGA 3000
JPAC
Hanterex Polo 1 20" 15 khz
VISTA 64bit
GroovyMAME 157

The games look good, with perfect scrolling. However some games have speed fluctuations, like Gauntlet Legends for eg.
I'm using ddraw and have polo chosen as monitor in GM mame.ini, the rest of the ini options are unchanged.

I know CRT EMU Drivers are best with XP but I don't really want to have to change OS.

I have a spare ATI Radeon HD 4650 though.
Would there be any advantage, especially with the game speed fluctuations, with using the 4650 and CRT EMU drivers instead of the AVGA, but keeping Vista?

EDIT

It seems I've managed to sort the speed issues out.
I deleted mame.ini and created a fresh one, changed monitor type to polo and video to ddraw but now the games, including Gaunlet Dark Legacy, hardly move away from 100% fps.
I must of changed other settings in the original mame.ini and hadn't realised. (I had been doing a fair bit of tinkering though )

I'm happy enough with the setup now, on some games I've tried so far there are narrow borders on the sides but nothing major.
I'm still interested to know though whether the 4650 / CRT EMUDriver setup would have any advantages, while still using Vista?

[bulbousbeard]

Why are you hung up with using Vista?

With GroovyMAME and CRTEmudriver, I think Windows 7 is actually the best OS for it now anyway. I'm pretty sure Arcade VGA can't do every game's native refresh rate. Doesn't it have a problem with R-Type and other 55hz games?

[haynor666]

http://ultimarc.com/avgainst.html

The most suitable for R-Type is 400x256@53 (originally designed for midway games). But probably ArcadeVGA can work with Calamity drivers very good.

[Jollywest]

Right, Now I'm confused 

R-Type looks great and scrolling is smooth. There is a narrow border on either side though.

When I look in the Game info I get this:

Video: 384 x 256 (H) 55.017605 Hz

Switchres: 368 x 240p 60.000Hz 0.000Khz

Changing games changes the video resolution/refresh rate info but the switchres info stays the same, is this right?

Coincidentally, I have always had my desktop set to 368 x 240, so Hyperspin displays full screen without interlace.

Switchres is definitely enabled in mame.ini as well by the way.

Another thing, when I was using standard MAME, I used the AVRes utility with the mame.exe to create resolutions for each game. These are still in the MAME .ini folder, does GM use these resolutions?... should I be running the AVRes utility again using the GM mame.exe?

The reason for not wanting to change OS is just because of the effort it would take to set everything back up if I were to go to XP.
Upgrading to Win7 would be an option though, as everything would more or less stay setup.

[haynor666]

With 368 x 240p 60.000Hz and syncrefresh you get r-type a bit faster (about 109%) unless groovymame switched to ddraw with mt.

[Calamity]

With 368 x 240p 60.000Hz and syncrefresh you get r-type a bit faster (about 109%) unless groovymame switched to ddraw with mt.

DDraw & D3D work exactly the same on that regard. It's triplebuffer + mt what makes a difference and is API-independent.

[Calamity]

Another thing, when I was using standard MAME, I used the AVRes utility with the mame.exe to create resolutions for each game. These are still in the MAME .ini folder, does GM use these resolutions?... should I be running the AVRes utility again using the GM mame.exe?

Oh, you need to remove those .inis! That's probably why GM's not picking the proper mode (400x256).

[Jollywest]

Another thing, when I was using standard MAME, I used the AVRes utility with the mame.exe to create resolutions for each game. These are still in the MAME .ini folder, does GM use these resolutions?... should I be running the AVRes utility again using the GM mame.exe?

Oh, you need to remove those .inis! That's probably why GM's not picking the proper mode (400x256).

That makes sense then, thanks.
GM is now picking up the right modes and running games at various speeds depending on the refresh rate. Scrolling is smooth but the audio is skipping. I understand the limitations of this setup a bit now.

I'll most likely upgrade to Win7 and swap out the AVGA setup for the 4650 / CRT EmuDrivers one instead now.

[Calamity]

Scrolling is smooth but the audio is skipping.

Enable -multithreading.

(I'll end up re-enabling this option by default).

[Calamity]

BTW there are two options you need to modify too when using an AVGA 3000:

lock_system_modes         0
refresh_dont_care          1

[Jollywest]

BTW there are two options you need to modify too when using an AVGA 3000:

lock_system_modes         0
refresh_dont_care          1

For Some reason the picture freezes on game start up and the audio is accelerated with these options enabled 

[Calamity]

Are you using any fancy frontend? Try launching it from command line. Anyway, post a log.

[Jollywest]

Are you using any fancy frontend? Try launching it from command line. Anyway, post a log.

I'm using HyperSpin, I'll have to call it night now but I'll get back on this tomorrow and post a log.

[Jollywest]

Ok, here is the log:

Code: [Select]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SwitchRes: v0.015d, Monitor: polo, Orientation: horizontal, Modeline generation: enabled
SwitchRes: Monitor range 15625.00-16670.00,49.50-65.00,2.000,4.700,8.000,0.064,0.160,1.056,0,0,192,288,448,576
SwitchRes: \\.\DISPLAY1: Ultimarc ArcadeVGA3000.
SwitchRes: DeviceKey: System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\{42742689-1352-4969-92B5-63BDF033AC18}\0000
Switchres: Searching for custom video modes...
Switchres: [  1]  240x 240 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [  2]  256x 240 @ 61 : system mode
Switchres: [  3]  256x 256 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [  4]  256x 264 @ 58 : system mode
Switchres: [  5]  288x 240 @ 61 : system mode
Switchres: [  6]  296x 240 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [  7]  304x 240 @ 61 : system mode
Switchres: [  8]  320x 200 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [  9]  320x 240 @ 60* : system mode
Switchres: [ 10]  320x 256 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 11]  336x 240 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 12]  352x 256 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 13]  352x 264 @ 57 : system mode
Switchres: [ 14]  352x 288 @ 51 : system mode
Switchres: [ 15]  368x 240 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 16]  384x 288 @ 51 : system mode
Switchres: [ 17]  392x 240 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 18]  400x 256 @ 52 : system mode
Switchres: [ 19]  448x 240 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 20]  512x 240 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 21]  512x 288 @ 51 : system mode
Switchres: [ 22]  512x 448 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 23]  512x 512 @ 58 : system mode
Switchres: [ 24]  632x 264 @ 57 : system mode
Switchres: [ 25]  640x 240 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 26]  640x 288 @ 51 : system mode
Switchres: [ 27]  640x 480 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 28]  648x 288 @ 51 : system mode
Switchres: [ 29]  720x 480 @ 60 : system mode
Switchres: [ 30]  800x 600 @ 52 : system mode
SwitchRes: Found 0 custom of 30 active video modes
SwitchRes: -resolution was forced as 400x256@0

SwitchRes: Entering switchres_modeline_setup
SwitchRes: v0.015d:[rtype] Calculating best video mode for 384x256@55.017605 orientation: normal

SwitchRes: [ 240]x[ 240]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 256]x[ 240]_(61=61.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 256]x[ 256]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 256]x[ 264]_(58=58.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 288]x[ 240]_(61=61.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 296]x[ 240]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 304]x[ 240]_(61=61.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 320]x[ 200]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 320]x[ 240]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 320]x[ 256]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 336]x[ 240]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 352]x[ 256]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 352]x[ 264]_(57=57.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 352]x[ 288]_(51=51.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 368]x[ 240]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 384]x[ 288]_(51=51.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 392]x[ 240]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 400]x[ 256]_(52=52.0000Hz)
   rng(0):  400 x 256_55.018p 15.625 [integ] scale(1, 1, 1) diff(4.00, 0.00, 0.0000) ratio(1.042, 1.000)

SwitchRes: [ 448]x[ 240]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 512]x[ 240]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 512]x[ 288]_(51=51.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 512]x[ 448]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 512]x[ 512]_(58=58.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 632]x[ 264]_(57=57.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 640]x[ 240]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 640]x[ 288]_(51=51.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 640]x[ 480]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 648]x[ 288]_(51=51.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 720]x[ 480]_(60=60.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [ 800]x[ 600]_(52=52.0000Hz) - locked

SwitchRes: [rtype] (1) horizontal (384x256@55.02)->(400x256@55.02)
   rng(0):  400 x 256_55.018p 15.625 [integ] scale(1, 1, 1) diff(4.00, 0.00, 0.0000) ratio(1.042, 1.000)
SwitchRes: Modeline "400x256_52 15.62KHz 55.02Hz" 8.12 400 416 456 520 256 261 263 284   -hsync -vsync
SwitchRes: Setting option -rotate
SwitchRes: Setting option -noror
SwitchRes: Setting option -autoror
SwitchRes: Setting option -norol
SwitchRes: Setting option -noautorol
SwitchRes: Setting option -noblack_frame_insertion
SwitchRes: Setting option -multithreading
SwitchRes: Setting option -notriplebuffer
SwitchRes: Setting option -syncrefresh
SwitchRes: Setting option -waitvsync
SwitchRes: Setting option -nohwstretch
SwitchRes: Setting option -keepaspect
SwitchRes: Setting option -nofilter
SwitchRes: Setting option -prescale 1
Video: Monitor 0000000000010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
DirectDraw: Using DirectDraw 7
Blitting thread created
winwindow_video_window_create: blit_lock = TRUE
Blitting thread started
window_proc: WM_NCACTIVATE
DirectDraw: Configuring device Ultimarc ArcadeVGA3000.
DirectDraw: primary surface created: 400x256x32 (R=00FF0000 G=0000FF00 B=000000FF)
DirectDraw: New blit size = 384x256
DirectDraw: blit surface created: 384x256x32 (R=00FF0000 G=0000FF00 B=000000FF)
blit_unlock = TRUE
window_proc: WM_PAINT
blit_lock = FALSE
window_proc: WM_PAINT:END
window_proc: WM_PAINT
window_proc: WM_PAINT:END
stream_buffer_size = 37888
DirectSound: Primary buffer: 48000 Hz, 16 bits, 2 channels
RawInput: APIs detected
Input: Adding Kbd #0: HID Keyboard Device
DirectInput: Using DirectInput 7
Input: Adding Mouse #0: Mouse
Input: Adding Gun #0: Mouse
Unable to load winpcap: 7e
Region ':maincpu' created
Region ':gfx1' created
Region ':gfx2' created
Region ':gfx3' created
Starting R-Type (World) ':'
Optional device 'dac' not found
Optional device 'mcu' not found
Optional shared pointer 'spriteram2' not found
Optional shared pointer 'majtitle_rowscr' not found
  (missing dependencies; rescheduling)
Starting V30 ':maincpu'
Starting Z80 ':soundcpu'
Starting gfxdecode ':gfxdecode'
Starting palette ':palette'
Starting Video Screen ':screen'
Starting Speaker ':lspeaker'
  (missing dependencies; rescheduling)
Starting Speaker ':rspeaker'
  (missing dependencies; rescheduling)
Starting Irem M72 Audio Custom ':m72'
Starting YM2151 ':ymsnd'
Starting R-Type (World) ':'
Optional device 'dac' not found
Optional device 'mcu' not found
Optional shared pointer 'spriteram2' not found
Optional shared pointer 'majtitle_rowscr' not found
  (missing dependencies; rescheduling)
Starting Speaker ':lspeaker'
Starting Speaker ':rspeaker'
Starting R-Type (World) ':'
Optional device 'dac' not found
Optional device 'mcu' not found
Optional shared pointer 'spriteram2' not found
Optional shared pointer 'majtitle_rowscr' not found
Average speed: 95.17% (80 seconds)
window_proc: WM_NCACTIVATE
blit_lock = TRUE
window_proc: WM_DESTROY
blit_lock = TRUE
Blitting thread destroyed
Sound: buffer overflows=2 underflows=0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've tried it outside of HyperSpin and it works great, albeit running at 95% but no audio stuttering and scrolling is smooth as well.

When loaded through HyperSpin, the picture freezes straight away once game is loaded and audio is accelerated to a squeal.
Any work around to get these settings working when using HS?

[Calamity]

I've tried it outside of HyperSpin and it works great, albeit running at 95% but no audio stuttering and scrolling is smooth as well.

When loaded through HyperSpin, the picture freezes straight away once game is loaded and audio is accelerated to a squeal.
Any work around to get these settings working when using HS?

This is the main reason I disabled -mt by default in GroovyMAME: HS users massively complaining about stability issues that do not occur with other frontends. On the other hand, now that we have -mt disabled by default all users are massively complaining about vertical games running slow. The dilemma is, if I want to release GroovyMAME with all the options set by default to provide the experience as it is intended to be, then I kill HS users. Then I think about it and since the release of CRT Emudriver several years ago I've been fighting with issues directly related to this frontend, and I'm a bit tired of it. I'll end up advising specifically against HS if using GroovyMAME. Emulation quality must be the priority IMHO, not frontend cuteness.

That said, if you're using HS you can just disable -mt. Then set "syncrefresh_tolerance 10.00" in mame.ini. This will force all games to synchronize to the videocard's refresh whatever it is. So, for instance vertical games like Galaga will run at 88-90%, but the sound will be perfectly synchronized. It will be the same thing you're seeing with R-Type: it's at 95% because the available refresh is 53 Hz instead of 55 Hz. But because syncrefresh_tolerance is 2.00 Hz by default, it's still sychronizing and thus the sound and scroll are smooth.

In other words, in order to have vertical games like Galaga running at 100% you'd need -triplebuffer which also requires -mt enabled, but because you can't enable it due to HS then the suboptimal solution is to force everything to be synchronized regardless of the speed variations.

Check this too: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,142866.0.html

[Jollywest]

Thanks for the info and I totally agree... Emulation quality should prioritise over FE choice.

I will try those options you mentioned above and if games are running too slow for me then I'll swap out HS.

I'll give running GM to one core a try as well, as mentioned in the link you posted.

I recently setup MALA on another cab and I was quite impressed with how easy it was to do, chances are I'll swap to that.

[cools]

I'll end up advising specifically against HS if using GroovyMAME.

It's a dead frontend. It's also pretty ugly on low resolution CRTs.