U360 help

[birchyman]

Hey guys,

Ive recently built an Arcade Cabinet running Hyperspin with 2 x U360's plugged in via USB as the joysticks. The U360's have the top mounted restricters on them.

They work absolutely great with most things, but the main thing im having a problem with is angles (up-left, up-right, etc) mostly during fighting games.

It seems that the joystick registers an up-left / up-right trigger when the joystick is just above half way. Sounds a bit confusing, ill try explain it better -

Say I am holding the direction back on the U360, if I even slightly push the joystick in the up direction it will start jumping backwards even though its no where near the up-left corner of the U360 restricter.

The output of this is jumping ALOT when im trying to do quarter-circle forward / back moves in fighting games.

Im sure there is some setting I can play with to fix it but I cant for the life of me figure it out.

Can anyone shed some light on the situation?

Cheers.

[lamprey]

You didn't say how you have the stick configured. Can we assume that you have used the UltraMap software and set them to be "8-way" and not "8-way easy diagonals"?

[birchyman]

Sorry, meant to mention that - yes I have the software and they are configured to 8-Way (not easy diagonals).

[EMDB]

Sorry, meant to mention that - yes I have the software and they are configured to 8-Way (not easy diagonals).

If you test them in the Ultimarc software are they visually reacting like you described? MAME uses its own mapping for analog sticks which can conflict with the U360 mapping.

[Blueic5]

ive just installed one of these in my panel without any restrictor so ill have a play tomorrow and let you know.  Can you disable the conflict in mame with Ultimarc software mentioned above?

[birchyman]

Sorry, meant to mention that - yes I have the software and they are configured to 8-Way (not easy diagonals).

If you test them in the Ultimarc software are they visually reacting like you described? MAME uses its own mapping for analog sticks which can conflict with the U360 mapping.

Yep, acting the same in the Ultimarc software.

Its not just Mame - im also playing KOFXIII (steam game) and it does it.

[Blueic5]

ok sticks installed ive not quite worked everything out yet but..  I install ultramap software as administrator ( windows then I uploaded the 8 way easy angles to stick 1.  I ran Mala and tested and not experiencing the issues you describe.   So not sure what to suggest other than trying that and making sure your mame configs are as default.

[Blueic5]

actually ignore that I think I experience the same thing , in that you barley have to move the stick to register the direction.

[EMDB]

By default MAME filters analog sticks. You should probably create a global "not-filter" map using this:

http://headsoft.com.au/index.php?category=mame&page=joymap

[Blueic5]

Ive set my stick to analogue and I don't have a restrictor installed and let mame do its thing.  Anyway I don't really have much of an issue with it but it certainly registers  the movement early and you don't have to get anywhere near the limits of the stick if that makes sense.  Ive no idea if this is normal or not and how a restrictor helps in this scenario as i'm very new to this, but I assume it limits the throw on the joystick thus reducing the problem.

[EMDB]

Ive set my stick to analogue and I don't have a restrictor installed and let mame do its thing.  Anyway I don't really have much of an issue with it but it certainly registers  the movement early and you don't have to get anywhere near the limits of the stick if that makes sense.  Ive no idea if this is normal or not and how a restrictor helps in this scenario as i'm very new to this, but I assume it limits the throw on the joystick thus reducing the problem.

Using it like that removed about the only thing the U360 is worth its money for 

[lamprey]

I'm not sure if I'm stating the obvious, but it seems like there is a disconnect on how these sticks work. Or, I'm not quire understanding.. whish is highly possible.

 But, the way the joystick is mapped roughly equates to a 49-way joystick (excluding analog). Meaning the entire range of he joystick is represented in a 7x7 grid. So, it makes sense that if you move a little bit it will/should register movement. If you only want it to register movement after a larger move, then you should setup a map that has a larger "dead zone" or otherwise change it to meet your needs.

[Blueic5]

Ah I see that makes sense,  I'll look at that ty

[birchyman]

Will try the deadzone trick, thanks

[Blueic5]

it certainly makes a difference , going to take some tweaking I think to get the best setup .

[IAmDotorg]

But, the way the joystick is mapped roughly equates to a 49-way joystick (excluding analog).

Only if you have the 49-way map loaded. Its important to load the right map into the stick, or the maps will snap the joystick movement to the wrong places and MAME will get confused.

Either map them analog and let MAME do the joystick<->button mapping, or map the *correct* map into it. The 49-way map will almost always produce twitchy, incorrect results if the game isn't one that uses a 49-way stick.

If the OP doesn't have a front-end that can map them properly, he/she should just set the analog map in there and use MAME's mapping.

[EMDB]

...
If the OP doesn't have a front-end that can map them properly, he/she should just set the analog map in there and use MAME's mapping.

Or use HyperMap for that as he uses HyperSpin

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,134128.0.html

[lamprey]

But, the way the joystick is mapped roughly equates to a 49-way joystick (excluding analog).

Only if you have the 49-way map loaded.

Maybe you are saying the 360 only acts like a 49-way when a 49-way map is loaded, and I agree. But, my point is that the "mapping" is based on a 49-way. Meaning, you get 49 "sectors" to configure it. The reason I said that is because people though it was generating movement too soon in the stick motion, so they need to change the mapping; and that mapping is 7x7 grid.

[IAmDotorg]

Its actually a 9x9 grid, the 47-way mapping is just a mapping laying on top of it. But I see what you were trying to say. I think mixing up the numbers just confused me what you were getting at.

[Blueic5]

Birchyman I'd be interested what you come up with custom map wise.   I've been having a play and for now have settled on the 8 way map increasing the centre by one.   I'm not running a restrictor though.   I do plan to buy the octagonal one with the longer shift soon as in a 3/4" panel the standard one is short.

[IAmDotorg]

Birchyman I'd be interested what you come up with custom map wise.   I've been having a play and for now have settled on the 8 way map increasing the centre by one.   I'm not running a restrictor though.   I do plan to buy the octagonal one with the longer shift soon as in a 3/4" panel the standard one is short.

Make sure you read up on the MAME joymap parameter. MAME does essentially the same thing that the U360 does, in terms of mapping points in a 9x9 grid to inputs. An analog map with a proper MAME map will work, or a U360 directional map with an alternate MAME map are necessary. You get the sort of weirdness this post is talking about when you're basically doing both -- the U360's directionals conflict with MAMEs and you get twitchy behavior at the overlaps.

I ended up using xpadder and sending just keystrokes into MAME for everything but analog games, which fixed the problem for me. That ensures the U360 map is used *exactly*.

[Blueic5]

OK how to confuse me even more lol,  how did you separate the analogue homes?

[IAmDotorg]

OK how to confuse me even more lol,  how did you separate the analogue homes?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,98058.0.html

Read that thread. Its long, but there's a lot of info in it. This isn't a new problem.

[lamprey]

Its actually a 9x9 grid, the 47-way mapping is just a mapping laying on top of it. But I see what you were trying to say. I think mixing up the numbers just confused me what you were getting at.

Doh, yep 9x9..

 

[Blueic5]

Great thread and it mentions to make a change
in the mame.ini change:
-joystick_map auto
to:
-joystick_map 7778...4445

Then use the u360 maps so I'll try that.   Did you try this @iamdotorgbefore going the xpadder route?

[IAmDotorg]

Then use the u360 maps so I'll try that.   Did you try this @iamdotorgbefore going the xpadder route?

I needed Xpadder for an entirely different reason you may run into -- the fact that Windows remaps joysticks when any other controllers are plugged in. The Joystick's ID number isn't stable.

I have four U360s, and they kept getting mapped as different ids so I had to be constantly changing my MAME config. Xpadder, unlike MAME, accesses them correctly (by name, not id number), so it always maps the correct physical stick to player 1, 2, 3 and 4. Now I only have to fix the mappings on the very few analog games I play (like Star Wars) if it gets screwed up.

[EMDB]

in the mame.ini change:
-joystick_map auto
to:
-joystick_map 7778...4445

That's it indeed to disable MAME's mapping

I needed Xpadder for an entirely different reason you may run into -- the fact that Windows remaps joysticks when any other controllers are plugged in. The Joystick's ID number isn't stable.

Partially for that reason I connected my U360 to my iPAC2 to have it send keystrokes for non-analog systems.

[Blueic5]

1. If connected to an ipac does this mean mame recognises as digital and does not apply maps? 
2. If connected to Ipac and USB can you still apply maps and will analogue mode work?

[EMDB]

1. If connected to an ipac does this mean mame recognises as digital and does not apply maps? 
2. If connected to Ipac and USB can you still apply maps and will analogue mode work?

1. YES: All FE's and emulators are controlled by keypresses like normal micro switch operated sticks.
2. YES. YES: If you download the analog map the keypresses are not send anymore.

[birchyman]

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys. From my perspective, (cant talk for Blueic5) but all mention of MAME are a bit void at the moment - the main game I am playing right now is KOFXII which is a steam game, so it must be between the U360 software / Windows Joystick mapping.

Going to have a play around today to see what I can come up with with the mappings.

...
If the OP doesn't have a front-end that can map them properly, he/she should just set the analog map in there and use MAME's mapping.

Or use HyperMap for that as he uses HyperSpin

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,134128.0.html

[Blueic5]

1. If connected to an ipac does this mean mame recognises as digital and does not apply maps? 
2. If connected to Ipac and USB can you still apply maps and will analogue mode work?

1. YES: All FE's and emulators are controlled by keypresses like normal micro switch operated sticks.
2. YES. YES: If you download the analog map the keypresses are not send anymore.

Right,  and are 4/8 way maps still required and work?

[EMDB]

...
Right,  and are 4/8 way maps still required and work?

You still use the maps and they work just fine.

[Blueic5]

Great thanks,  lots of info in this thread now to hopefully help others..

[birchyman]

Got it working exactly how i want it.

Set to 8 way > changed the bottom 2 'rows' of angles to back and forward (depending on which side) so that only the top 'row' of up-left, up-right etc is left. This has eliminated the accidental triggering of jumps when doing qcf etc moves and requires the joystick to be put exactly in the corners if I want jumps to trigger. I also increased the centre box by 1 on all sides.

This has transferred perfectly onto MAME, Daphne, etc etc. Didnt need to edit any other maps except for the Ultramap ones.

thanks for the help guys, much appreciated.

[Blueic5]

Any chance of sending me your file or  screen shot so I can try it out?   As not 100% I follow

[birchyman]

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Not near my arcade machine at the mo, let me know if that doesnt make sense and ill post a pic when i get home.

[Blueic5]

Thanks I'll give that a go,  I  made the changes to the mame.ini as well to be sure

[Blueic5]

After thinking I had nailed this ive realized that mala with UltraStik Mapper is loading analogue map each time rather than 8way / 4way etc when I run a game.  Im not sure how its deciding which map to run any ideas how to troubleshoot this one?