spinners..how much resistance?

[adder]

im just messing here with a taito spinner i got from someone, restoring it as it was not in very good shape.

at the moment im putting the main shaft/knob into the top plate which all holds together using an E-Clip. i notice depending on the thickness of the washers i use, it can end up from being quite a firm/resisting spinner (ie. if i spin the knob and let go, it stops spinning pretty much straight away), to a loose spinner which spins around a few times if i spin the knob and let go, but at the expense of the spinner not feeling as tight (it is a little loose/slightly wobbly feeling).

as ive never owned a spinner or used one in the past, generally speaking do you guys think a spinner should be quite tight/firm and have some resistance, or should it be really loose so when you spin it and let go, its just goes spinning around for ages?

i am going to be putting some grease in there but havnt got to that yet.

im curious if anyone knows: regarding a NOS or unused taito arkanoid spinner, as stock are they quite loose, or tight?

ps. oh and just something i spotted.. i notice on the byoac wiki page:  http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Spinners_and_Dials
the only place the word dial is used, is in the title.

[lamprey]

It might depend on what you are using it for, but in general I'd want a spinner to be free spinning (low/no resistance).

[RandyT]

Dial is a bit of a misnomer.  I've usually interpreted it such that "dial" is used to label games which originally used a potentiometer.  These were not free-spinning, and usually do not turn a full 360 degrees.  Even though titles like Arkanoid used optical spinner tech, they also have the mechanically resistive properties of a potentiometer, so they fall somewhere between a spinner and a potentiometer.

But you can interpret it any way you wish

[adder]

thanks guys its interesting but i played around a bit more and found there is kind of a sweet spot.. which is just setting it so it is slightly looser than 'tight'.. so that the spinner remains quite solid/firm feeling and not wobbly, but does spin reasonably ok with just a bit of resistance.
i suppose the sweet spot might not last a long time as the spinner is used and parts wear etc, but its good for now so i guess i will go with it

[Xiaou2]

If there is wobble, its most likely due to the bushing (bearing) being worn out.

 Depending on the kind of assembly it is.. you may be able to replace the bushing..  and or repair it with something like Epoxy. (then carefully drill it to a much snugger shaft fit)

 If its a geared spinner... such as Arkanoid... its probably not easily, if at all, repairable.   Usually those thin shaft bushings fail, and so that gears dont mesh well.  This causes the gear teeth to wear down in certain areas... and causes irregular tracking... as well as a poor feel.  Usually the entire thing gets to the point of which its no longer functional at all.

 The tiny tooth gears are not very good with even the smallest of misalignment's.   Larger gears seen in things like steering and pedal assemblies, are far more robust..  and can deal better with misalignment, expansion and contraction, vibrations..etc..  The thickness also helps prevent warping, and material degradation.. such as plastics tendency to drying out and cracking.

 If the wobble is left unchecked.. it can cause the bearing to wear down even faster... and this can then destroy the shaft, as well as other things.  Best to see what you can do about fixing the "Play".

[Minwah]

im curious if anyone knows: regarding a NOS or unused taito arkanoid spinner, as stock are they quite loose, or tight?

Is it the geared spinner? I don't know much about those but don't think they would spin at all when let go of?

I would say generally original arcade spinners did not spin for ages, although they should feel free enough (not 'tight'). I believe most (non geared) used a bush rather than ball bearings (which modern spinners tend to use) so naturally wouldn't spin for a huge amount of time.

[adder]

it's an interesting device, ive never owned one before so it was good take it all apart and see how it's all working etc. it looks like the pic below (but 4 pins not 6).. i think i can see now that it does seem, these spinners are not supposed to continue to spin when you spin the knob and let go. it just stops. no ball bearings in this. i cant figure out if i would prefer it to spin a bit when i let go or not  anyway it seems ok now, it was making a bit of a rasping noise when i put it all together, then i realised it was a good idea to go nuts with the grease on all the moving parts including the plastic wheel teeth things.. its very smooth now and quiet.

[RandyT]

A geared "spinner" will not "free-spin" without a heavy flywheel, and given that the revolutions are being increased, so would be the force required to get it moving.  I.e. it's not designed for that purpose, and would likely tear up the gears.

Also, make sure the lube on the gears is the proper type.  Usually, heavy white lithium is used, but I'd imagine that a thick, silicone based grease (not the spray stuff) would be fine as well.

[Xiaou2]

it's an interesting device, ive never owned one before so it was good take it all apart and see how it's all working etc. it looks like the pic below (but 4 pins not 6).. i think i can see now that it does seem, these spinners are not supposed to continue to spin when you spin the knob and let go. it just stops. no ball bearings in this. i cant figure out if i would prefer it to spin a bit when i let go or not  anyway it seems ok now, it was making a bit of a rasping noise when i put it all together, then i realised it was a good idea to go nuts with the grease on all the moving parts including the plastic wheel teeth things.. its very smooth now and quiet.

 Yup, as suspected...  Arkanoid style spinner.    Its not a spinner that will continue to spin when let go.   However, the advantage and use, is for high resolution accuracy... in the game Arkanoid  (and in many 360 degree wheel racing games...such as sega Turbo).   
 
 While you can use a low resolution spinner to play this game... by bumping up mames analog step settings....   that really wont give you precision and smooth control.   It just takes one step, and multiplies the distance into a several steps.  The result is 'jerky'... much like what happens when mame skips too many display frames.

 These types of spinners are nearly impossible to repair.   The gears are usually worn too badly... and often the teeth are not fully meshing, chipped / broken / missing.

 The term "Bearing"...  is also often used to describe a "Bushing".  While similar in nature... the bushing has no balls... its just solid metal.   A bushing is usually a thick metal collar that holds the shaft, made to pretty strict tolerance specs, that allow very little 'wiggle or play'.  (yet also not adding a massive amount of friction)  The bushing is typically thick in its depth...  to keep it from warping and wearing.

 The Pics you show below appear to be a reproduction run.. that have some advantages over the older original design.  This version seems to have many small bushings..  where as, if memory serves me right.. the original used direct holes drilled into the thin walled housing.  (which is why they failed quite quickly and easily)

 Still, they probably should have at least made the larger gears thicker.   Would have probably helped to reduce tooth / gear  damages.  (although, it would probably add to the friction)

[RandyT]

Yup, as suspected...  Arkanoid style spinner.    Its not a spinner that will continue to spin when let go.   However, the advantage and use, is for high resolution accuracy... in the game Arkanoid  (and in many 360 degree wheel racing games...such as sega Turbo).   

Unless one needs that geared feeling, these "spinners" have no advantages today.  In the old days, the only way to get that resolution was this complicated gearing system.  Today's spinners, which started with the TurboTwist2, are much smaller, as easy to install as a standard pusbutton, and are actually higher in resolution than what that large assembly can produce.  They can also free spin and optionally not, as desired