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Author Topic: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors  (Read 1168 times)

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newoski

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ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« on: December 13, 2014, 06:30:33 pm »
Hi Guys,

I've got ServoStiks in my bartop and I'm noticing that, if enough pressure is applied, the joysticks can still hit the diagonals...

I'm a total newb so I'm just curious... is this normal?

Not complaining, just unsure if the diagonals should be possible/impossible in 4-way mode?

Thanks!!

Nephasth

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2014, 07:44:36 pm »
Adjust your switch levers.

newoski

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2014, 09:19:02 pm »
Could you elaborate? This is my first build... Still learning

PL1

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2014, 09:50:43 pm »
Could you elaborate? This is my first build... Still learning
By slightly bending the lever arm, you change the distance that you have to move the joystick handle to make the actuator press the lever arm into the nub on the microswitch.

By bending the green zone down by just a bit on all the switches, you can tune the stick so that the diagonals are just out of reach.



Green zone = OK to bend
Red zone = Avoid bending

Related thread here.


Scott

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2014, 10:14:04 pm »
Thanks PL1,

I'm surpised that they both have the problem... any experience? Is this normal?

Nephasth

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2014, 10:28:41 pm »
Adjustments are pretty much always necessary.

PL1

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2014, 11:01:17 pm »
I'm surpised that they both have the problem... any experience? Is this normal?
Depends on how picky you are, but minor adjustments are often needed to make it feel/respond right for your expectations.

This is especially true if you mod sticks like a trigger stick, Zippyy or Happ Super by installing quieter microswitches.

IIRC, the trigger stick replacement switches needed almost 5 degrees of additional bend to hit diagonals properly.   :o


Scott

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2014, 11:33:27 pm »
Any video tutorials on disassembling joysticks?

mgb

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2014, 07:54:23 am »
The same thing is common with the Sanwa JLW 
just remove the 4 screws that hold the restrictor plate and lift it off.

BadMouth

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2014, 09:01:51 am »
Of course in an ideal world one direction would disengage the instant a different direction was triggered.

When I did 4/8 way switching, I did some testing to determine if it was better to have a slight overlap where both directions are triggered or a slight gap where neither direction is triggered.
By slight overlap or slight gap, I mean if you concentrate and hold the stick exactly between the two switches could you get it to register both or neither.
I actually got higher scores in the games with a slight overlap.  On 4-way games, newer versions of MAME don't allow input from more than one direction anyway.  It takes the most recent direction and ignores the last even if the switch is still tripped.  MAME was correcting for the overlap and making the transition instant anyway, while a gap was still a gap.

If you have to apply extra pressure to get it to hit the diagonal, then it's fine.

Just my $.02

newoski

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2014, 09:13:27 am »
Thanks, BadMouth!

I really appreciate the help here from everyone.


mgb

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2014, 03:13:41 pm »
If you have to apply extra pressure to get it to hit the diagonal, then it's fine.
Just my $.02

agreed

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2014, 01:17:10 am »
If you have to apply extra pressure to get it to hit the diagonal, then it's fine.
Just my $.02

agreed

 Disagree.

 If your product is a 4 way... no matter what evils you do to it when its mounted properly... it should always register as 4 way.
The level of quality of these homebrew corner cutting creations, is lacking.

 Microswitch based leafs, have always been a horrible idea.  If the user can bend the leafs.. what do you think can happen during aggressive play?   Combine that with the fact that many such leafs will cease to function properly if the leaf is distorted too much.  These leafs are not to be mistaken with true leafswitches.  Microswitch leafs are thin bendable tin or aluminum.  SS at best.   True leafswitch leafs are made from spring-steel.  Spring steel maintains its springing quality without distortion, for decades.

newoski

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2014, 07:02:06 am »
Disagreeing is fine, but you present no real options to solve the problem...

AndyWarne

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2014, 07:11:54 am »
If you have to apply extra pressure to get it to hit the diagonal, then it's fine.
Just my $.02

agreed

 Disagree.

 If your product is a 4 way... no matter what evils you do to it when its mounted properly... it should always register as 4 way.
The level of quality of these homebrew corner cutting creations, is lacking.

 Microswitch based leafs, have always been a horrible idea.  If the user can bend the leafs.. what do you think can happen during aggressive play?   Combine that with the fact that many such leafs will cease to function properly if the leaf is distorted too much.  These leafs are not to be mistaken with true leafswitches.  Microswitch leafs are thin bendable tin or aluminum.  SS at best.   True leafswitch leafs are made from spring-steel.  Spring steel maintains its springing quality without distortion, for decades.

If you buy a perfectly standard JLW from Sanwa it will just reach 2 switches in 4-way mode.
Its easy to adjust if you are concerned about it, as mentioned above.
The levers on the microswitches dont bend at all in use, ever. The restrictor limits the travel before any pressure is applied to the lever other than the tiny pressure needed to close the switch. The levers are hinged at the switch end. There is no such thing as a "microswitch leaf".
The levers are not made from tin (which wold be crazy) or aluminium, they are zinc-plated steel.
There is nothing at all wrong with microswitch-based joysticks.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 07:40:47 am by AndyWarne »

newoski

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2014, 07:50:00 am »
Agreed Andy,

As I stated in my first post, I'm a newb so I was simply looking for clarification/confirmation that all was well with my ServoStiks. We've confirmed that's the case -- as well as providing a few suggestions to mod them, if desired...

Thanks for everyone's help!


Malenko

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2014, 10:53:15 am »
Disagreeing is fine, but you present no real options to solve the problem...

what you meant to say was this:
If you are helping someone and expecting something in return, you are doing business not kindness.

newoski

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2014, 11:47:39 am »
Ha!

More to the point, after reading up on Joystick Restrictors via SlagCoin, I realize that the ServoStiks are behaving exactly as they should.

I was pushing the joystick to the point of Throw, instead of worrying about the point of Activation.

I'm still a newb, but at least I'm learning.

( :

Malenko

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2014, 11:48:47 am »
I take it my diagram helped you with the wiring and you have everything working?
If you are helping someone and expecting something in return, you are doing business not kindness.

newoski

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2014, 11:52:42 am »
Absolutely. That diagram was massively helpful!

Really appreciate it

Minwah

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2014, 05:40:50 am »
I was pushing the joystick to the point of Throw, instead of worrying about the point of Activation.

Interestingly I play like this (ride the restrictor) and haven't noticed any problem with activating two microswitches at once. I'm sure I would have noticed as I've been playing a lot of Donkey Kong.

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2014, 01:56:04 pm »
As has been stated, if the overlap is slight, you will never notice. The reason you see overlaps on joysticks intended to be switched (or having the capability to be fixed in one or the other) is that what makes a great diamond restricted 4-way, will also make a so-so 8-way with square restriction...and vice-versa.  Some compromise is necessary with these types of sticks, or switch adjustment along with the change of the restrictor.

Perfect 4-way operation and perfect 8-way operation can't, for practical and physical reasons, co-exist on the same stick.  It doesn't mean sticks which do both aren't good, just that expectations have to be tempered with what is possible, given those limitations.

newoski

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Re: ServoStik 4 Way / Restrictors
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2014, 02:34:10 pm »
Thanks very much, Randy.

I've got a much better understanding of how 4/8 way joysticks function thanks to the responses from everyone in the thread. I really appreciate all the help.