Custom Cabinet Legality Question

[wp34]

It seems to me, the reason these posts keep dragging on is, once the correct answer is presented and OP [in any of the hundred of random threads] says he isn't that concerned with the Tax Man, or the 50 shades of color  everyone calls the "grey area," other folks try to find ways to rationalize it.

holy run on sentence

That was pretty well put for a run on sentence.

[danny_galaga]

The legal licensing of arcade games in a lot of places is more of a problem.   State and local regulations must be met and whether the game is legal or not the use of the arcade cabinet in a place of business must be OK'd by the local authority who really just care about license fees.

This. The main thing 'The Man' is usually worried about is licensing, and safety. In Australia, anything electrical in a public venue has to be 'tested and tagged' by a licensed electrician. And then there is some sort of licensing to operate coin ops in a venue. Even if they are free-to-play, there is probably some sort of requirement that someone will need to look at them. I suspect there are vaguely similar laws in most first world countries, and you can't get much more first world than Finland.

[RoyalScam]

I would think this is akin to taking your CD collection, throwing it in a jukebox, putting in a bar, then saying "I don't have to pay ASCAP because I own those CDs!".

.....and they do have people that make their living busting restaurants and bars who don't have a license.

I owned a Restaurant for 20+ years.  I had 8 speakers installed in the ceiling that were driven by a cheap Emerson  Turntable/AM/FM Radio with twin tape decks.  ASCAP charged me per speaker and for each individual media player (turntable, radios and tape decks).  At the time I thought it was a scam, until I was served papers.  We were blessed with customers that shared my warped sense of humor.  I removed the speakers and the cheap stereo and bought 12 battery operated portable radios and placed them on random tables.  When the 'regulars' saw them I explained that ASCAP wanted me to pay IIRC $1100.00 per year for the music, but if my customers brought their own radios and played them I wouldn't have to pay.  When ASCAP and later BMI came in to inspect, they found no installed media systems, but a lot of customers playing their own individual radios.  That lasted for about two years until I installed another radio system.  ASCAP never returned.

Sorry for the hijack,
Scam

[aphraxad]

All kinds of good advice here.  I think i'm just going to be safe and avoid roms all together.  I will probably just stick an LED TV and a PS4 in one cab to run the new street fighter and mortal kombat games. Stick a PC in one and run the pacman collection off steam, and maybe a PS2 in a couple others that have a copy of namco museum or something like that.  Then the cases will just be controllers with a TV mounted in them and my bar will have a couple consoles in it people can play games on.

[IAmDotorg]

All kinds of good advice here.  I think i'm just going to be safe and avoid roms all together.  I will probably just stick an LED TV and a PS4 in one cab to run the new street fighter and mortal kombat games. Stick a PC in one and run the pacman collection off steam, and maybe a PS2 in a couple others that have a copy of namco museum or something like that.  Then the cases will just be controllers with a TV mounted in them and my bar will have a couple consoles in it people can play games on.

Prepare to be surprised -- you can't do that either, legally. The SCA license for the system software on the PS4 allows only personal, non-commercial use:

"Subject to this Agreement's terms, SCE grants you a non-exclusive, non-commercial right to use System Software solely on your PS4 system. Your rights to use previous versions of System Software other than the current version of System Software terminates as soon as you can receive or have the most current version of System Software installed on your PS4 system."

The patent licenses associated with it are also for non-commercial use.

Most game publishers, if not all, explicitly limit commercial use of their software, as well.

EA's license:
"Through this purchase, you are acquiring and EA grants you a
personal, limited, non-exclusive license to install and use the Software
for your non-commercial use solely as set forth in this License and the
accompanying documentation. Your acquired rights are subject to your
compliance with this Agreement."

Its no different than the license you get when you buy a bluray or music -- you can't legally use it in any commercial setting (free or for money) without buying a *commercial* license.

[pbj]

I think my eyes just permanently rolled into the back of my head.

[yotsuya]

I think my eyes just permanently rolled into the back of my head.

Why? Letter of the law says he's right. I mean, it's not a grey area. The issue is whether or not anyone ENFORCES it. 

[IAmDotorg]

Why? Letter of the law says he's right. I mean, it's not a grey area. The issue is whether or not anyone ENFORCES it. 

FWIW, in the past I've helped on planning for a number of trade show parties where we were using game consoles / games, and we always secured rights for them. Its absolutely enforced, the question is if a small bar or something in Podunk nowhere would ever be caught. But ASCAP does catch small places regularly.

Where you need to be really worried is a disgruntled employee ratting you out to a shady organization like the BSA, at least in the US. While I haven't personally seen it happen with something like game licenses or ripped off ROMs, I've seen it at least a half dozen times with other software... and there's no reason someone *couldn't* do it for an unlicensed game console, or MAME. And the laws in the US are strange in that an organization like the BSA can take unilateral action against a company (essentially legalized extortion) even if the copyright owner didn't start the process. Fighting it can cost a fortune, which is why most companies just settle up.

If you're a business with assets of any value (or an owner of a business with poorly protected assets), you should absolutely be worried about these sort of things. If you're running illegal software -- in any form -- don't piss off an employee.

[AndyWarne]

Different manufacturers have different attitudes to enforcement of their copyright. Nintendo are the firmest.

They have prosecuted vendors of JAMMA multi-game boards in the past and at least one supplier has been fined. I researched this as we planned to sell these boards at some time but never ended up doing so.

A few years ago, in connection with a "History of Video Games" exhibition in London the organisers tried to get permission from various games companies to run a Mame setup with a projector. Many, including Taito, gave permission. Nintendo did not.

Disney, for "Wreck-it Ralph" (which I had some involvement in) asked various companies for permission to use their characters, Nintendo refused which is why Nintendo characters such as Mario dont appear in the movie.

[yotsuya]

Disney, for "Wreck-it Ralph" (which I had some involvement in) asked various companies for permission to use their characters, Nintendo refused which is why Nintendo characters such as Mario dont appear in the movie.

I had read somewhere that initially, Ralph was supposed to BE Donkey Kong, but Nintendo said no.

[Haze]

I think my eyes just permanently rolled into the back of my head.

Why? Letter of the law says he's right. I mean, it's not a grey area. The issue is whether or not anyone ENFORCES it. 

yeah, seems some people on this forum don't like it when the correct advice is given..

for the latest consoles etc. it DOES get enforced, because Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo want to be able to be able to charge game stores and events for running demo units, expecting their machines to be displayed in a certain way.

Unfortunately the games industry has very much followed the movie / music industry in the worst ways possible.

Having a PC on location is no easier either, you'll need to make sure the OS license permits it, and any other software that is running on the PC, it gets messy quickly, and the people who do software audits are great at picking up on the most obscure thing you never really even use so you'd probably want to avoid Windows completely as not to make their life easier.

[pbj]

Different manufacturers have different attitudes to enforcement of their copyright. Nintendo are the firmest.

"are the firmest"?  They allow open sale of multiboards on every major retail website.

Disney, for "Wreck-it Ralph" (which I had some involvement in) asked various companies for permission to use their characters, Nintendo refused which is why Nintendo characters such as Mario dont appear in the movie.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=nintendo+characters+in+wreck+it+ralph&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb

Cool story, bro.

yeah, seems some people on this forum don't like it when the correct advice is given..

Ah, so your 'lawyer' is an expert on Finnish copyright law.  Sweet.

 

[yotsuya]

Nothing finer than when he goes the full PBJ. 

[pbj]

Nothing finer than when he goes the full PBJ. 

Meh, I'm out.  "You probably shouldn't do it, but nothing will happen if you do" sums up anything of value anyone has had to say in this thread.

 

[IAmDotorg]

Ah, so your 'lawyer' is an expert on Finnish copyright law.  Sweet.

Finland is part of the EU, and EU is a signatory of the WIPO Copyright Treaty.  The US DMCA is the US's implementation of its signing of the WCT, and the legal basis of the two are nearly identical, other than some copyright term extension differences in the US.

And in either case, its not a question of copyright law, its a question of contract law, and you can be sure the important bits of both are enforceable on the singular basis that software companies are willing to do business in Finland.

But clearly you, with no experience in either copyright or contract law, or software licensing, or owning a business, or licensing litigation have an opinion you seem to want to ram down people's throats that is demonstrably wrong, and when you're called on it you call back on statements like that, which are also demonstrably irrelevant.

[lilshawn]

agreed,

Do what you like, but be prepared if someone were to hit the binders on you.

Still I laugh when "Shou" (board collector hoarder for rom ripping for mame dev goodness) found this game and was ripping it... M2 (those responsible for emulating re-release konami and sega games) was all like "hey Sega, you got this game?" and sega was all like "sry bro" and M2 was all like (to Shou) "Oh yeah you know that thing about stealing intellectual property we all ---smurfette--- about? yeah, well sega kinda... lost whatever that is you have there and was wondering... urm... if you had a... copy... of the game we could...get off you..."



facepalm

[nitrogen_widget]

O.P. grab a linux distro of choice and install some open-source clones of video games or any type of open-source game that you feel would work with controls.

Here is an example of a shoot-em-up that falls under the Artistic License
http://www.reptilelabour.com/software/chromium/


Also Paintown is a skinable beatem-up under the BSD license
http://paintown.sourceforge.net/#

openBOR is BSD also.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/openbor/

[AndyWarne]

Disney, for "Wreck-it Ralph" (which I had some involvement in) asked various companies for permission to use their characters, Nintendo refused which is why Nintendo characters such as Mario dont appear in the movie.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=nintendo+characters+in+wreck+it+ralph&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb

Cool story, bro.

[/quote]

The info regards Wreck-It-Ralph was told to me by Disneys VP of Marketing in person at Disneys animation studios in Hollywood.

[ark_ader]

Just do what you like.  Nobody gives a crap especially in Finland.  Roms, cabinets - go have a ball.