KADE miniConsole+ arcade, computer, and console I/O

[sharpfork]

One suggestion that I think would help tremendously with the response to the device would be multiplayer functionality. How sweet would it be to have a 4 player device that would allow yourself and three pals to throw down on Goldeneye 007 using the controller of your preference?!?!

Thanks for the feedback.  If the miniConsole+ was only USB out we would likely have that kind of option, probably two player.  Because it also connects to consoles which require a unique physical connection for each player (original xbox, playstation 1/2, wii classic controller) , combining multi player into a single device makes having more than one player on a single device much more complex.  We will definitely consider this down the road.
You can still accomplish what you are talking about with the current design but would need multiple devices.

[RubberB]

This device sounds really cool. I've been wondering if it's possible to hook up an Atari Star Wars yoke (flight controller) to a Gamecube or Wii. Could the Kade Console+ do that?

[sharpfork]

I've been wondering if it's possible to hook up an Atari Star Wars yoke (flight controller) to a Gamecube or Wii.

It currently support Wiimote out (and Wiiu U Usb) but not direct to gamecube.  We have chatted about gamecube out but it hasn't been a huge priority. 
Degentrons and bootsector have been messing around with a generic analog input that might work for this at some point.  The mapping and adjustment wouldn't necessarily be in the configuration GUI so it would require some extra effort.  I'm not saying 100% yes but it is entirely possible.  The source will be open and the configuration is looking like it will be adjustable in some ways the GUI doesn't support by editing XML.  The device is super flexible so I expect it will support all sorts of edge cases we haven't thought about.

TLDR; Today, no.  Someday, entirely possible.

[degenatrons]

Kickstarter will be coming soon,  we kind of got side-tracked with adding new features.

Bruno added plug and play support for Dreamcast controllers and also made an expansion board (we're calling it multi-out) to allow output to SNES, Genesis(Megadrive) and other 9 pin systems.
Kevin has been working on the miniArcade PCB and has also designed a cool brain/AVR which will power the miniConsole+ and a succession of other cool products down the line.
I made a cross-platform gamepad mapper (Windows, Mac, Linux) for those that like to tinker and change the default gamepad assignments.

It's getting crazy what can be done with our miniConsole+ I updated the KADE with blades (swiss army knife) graphic to show off the capability.



Here's a video preview of the gamepad mapper utility.



We added auto detect for Atari paddles and decided that we may as well go all the way and make an analog board to cater for bespoke analog projects,  yokes and stuff.

I made a quick video to show gamepad input on Spectrum 48k.  The multi-out board will work with genesis and any other computer or console that has inputs compatible with Genesis such as Spectrum, Commodore 64, Atari.  It'll be interesting to use my favourite controllers on these vintage systems.  I was just pissing about with this video really.  Some might find it interesting.



Exciting times.

[Slippyblade]

Hurry up and launch already!  Take my damn money!

[bootsector]

Eric Fraga, from Cosmic Effect (a very respectful retro-gaming YT channel here in Brazil), is having some fun with a miniConsole+ prototype on this video:

[bootsector]

Hey Jon! You need to add one more blade to this guy: Wii Classic Controller is now supported as input! 

[Dalba]

3.will there be rumble support for controllers like the dual shock, GameCube, etc?

GC pad rumble support when using on the WiiU via USB is now in beta-test. This is a little complicated subject since both the host and the controllers must offer support to rumble. Also, the power supplied by the host is another constraint (GC pad requires 5V and DualShock around 7V, USB sources 5V, Wiimote sources 3.3V, so there's a lot to tinker here).

Isn't it possible to use an external 12v PSU and use some kinds of resistances firmware programmation to provide the right voltage for the right pad ? Supporting rumble for all controllers that support this feature (GC, N64, PS2...) would be a damn cool thing !

[bootsector]

3.will there be rumble support for controllers like the dual shock, GameCube, etc?

GC pad rumble support when using on the WiiU via USB is now in beta-test. This is a little complicated subject since both the host and the controllers must offer support to rumble. Also, the power supplied by the host is another constraint (GC pad requires 5V and DualShock around 7V, USB sources 5V, Wiimote sources 3.3V, so there's a lot to tinker here).

Isn't it possible to use an external 12v PSU and use some kinds of resistances firmware programmation to provide the right voltage for the right pad ? Supporting rumble for all controllers that support this feature (GC, N64, PS2...) would be a damn cool thing !

Possible, indeed! But beyond the complexity (and production costs) we're aiming for this device!

[degenatrons]

Hey Jon! You need to add one more blade to this guy: Wii Classic Controller is now supported as input! 

Pic updated.

[Generic Eric]

We added auto detect for Atari paddles and decided that we may as well go all the way and make an analog board to cater for bespoke analog projects,  yokes and stuff.

Exciting times.

Let's go all the way!

[Generic Eric]

This device sounds really cool. I've been wondering if it's possible to hook up an Atari Star Wars yoke (flight controller) to a Gamecube or Wii. Could the Kade Console+ do that?

I also would like to know the answer to that.

Here is what I have considered.  Without something like this, you would likely have to connect the potentiometers to the controller board.  Consider this, the analog stick has tiny potentiometers built in.  With something like this you are doing something like that.

The key is to understand whether or not analog inputs are supported on the gamecube interface. 


I feel like its good to get these questions out before the KS launch so that the can be presented.  As such, I would like to know which if any console adapters include the analog?

[RubberB]

It would be so cool if the Kade team could get that to work. If it helps I read somewhere that the pots in the Gamecube controller are 10k. The yoke's are 5k but can be swapped out for 10k ones if that makes things easier.

[bootsector]

Analog to digital conversion in the KADE miniConsole+ works by converting the input voltage to a number between 0 and 255.

Below is the typical configuration for a variable voltage divider.

Code: [Select]

(+)---|POT|-+-|RES|---(-)
            |
            |
            |
         (OUTPUT)
      
POT = Potentiometer (linear)
RES = Fixed value resistor

Both POT and RES should have the same value.

Atari Paddles use 1M pots (not grounded). So in order to use Atari Paddles with the miniConsole+, we just need an 1M resistor connected between GND and POT output. One for each axis. The Paddles cable adapters already have those 1M pull down resistors for the axis.

This configuration will give us voltage ranging from V/2 to V.

The (OUTPUT) signal is then connected to an ADC pin in the miniConsole+ that will convert the input voltage to the correct value.

Assuming the Atari yoke POTs are NOT grounded, (I could not find a schematic for it online, let me know if you find one) we just need a couple of pull down resistors of the same value of the POTs connected as the configuration above. The voltage would then still range from V/2 to V, thus, making the ADC driver to work as expected.

Conversion to the host systems (Wii, PS2, PS3, etc...) is done automatically and they are also mappable to any analog stick by using the neat application developed by Degenatrons!

I thought it was a good idea to expose this information now because this is how the analog driver used by the miniConsole+ works, so you guys can plan your projects ahead, way before the adapter is available!

[PL1]

Assuming the Atari yoke POTs are NOT grounded, (I could not find a schematic for it online, let me know if you find one)

The Atari yoke is a 3-wire potentiometer (variable voltage setup) just like KADESTICK. (see pinout here for detailed directions for attaching a SW yoke to a KADESTICK encoder)

Pins 9, 10, and 6 are 5v, ground, and wiper (output) for X-axis.

Pins 9, 10, and 5 are 5v, ground, and wiper (output) for Y-axis.



The schematic is in the lower right corner of page 114 of the SW manual here.


Scott

[bootsector]

Assuming the Atari yoke POTs are NOT grounded, (I could not find a schematic for it online, let me know if you find one)

The Atari yoke is a 3-wire potentiometer (variable voltage setup) just like KADESTICK. (see pinout here for detailed directions for attaching a SW yoke to a KADESTICK encoder)

Pins 9, 10, and 6 are 5v, ground, and wiper (output) for X-axis.

Pins 9, 10, and 5 are 5v, ground, and wiper (output) for Y-axis.




Scott

Thanks, Scott!

So in order to make the yokes to work with the miniConsole+, it will be necessary to disconnect the GND pins from both axis and connect a 5K resistor between the wiper and GND on them (assuming that each pots are 5K).

[PL1]

So in order to make the yokes to work with the miniConsole+, it will be necessary to disconnect the GND pins from both axis and connect a 5K resistor between the wiper and GND on them (assuming that each pots are 5K).

Consider removing/disconnecting the resistor on the miniConsole+ instead.

The resistor is necessary to turn a 2-wire setup (variable resistor like Atari paddles) into a 3-wire (variable voltage) setup.

Having to select a matching 5k/10k/100k/1M resistor makes the much more common 3-wire setups (variable voltage potentiometers) needlessly complicated.

Add a checkbox in the loader program to select either variable resistor (A/D looks for V/2) or potentiometer (A/D looks for V).   


Scott

[PL1]

Schematic for my proposal above.


Scott

EDIT: Fixed error in schematic.   

[bootsector]

Schematic for my proposal above.


Scott

EDIT: Fixed error in schematic.   

Hey Scott! It does make sense! I've just implemented the changes in the analog input driver so it now works in either full ADC range (0 - 1023) or half ADC range (512 - 1023). There's a setting that tells the driver which mode it should work on.

Cheers! 

[degenatrons]

For analog, up to 5 axis can be connected simultaneously via the DB15 interface.  Kevin made some neat little converter boards to simplify wiring cables to DB15 and we plan to make an analog expansion board for easy wiring of bespoke projects.  Alternatively,  you could wire analog controls directly to a DB15 plug.  Several pins on the DB15 are reserved for autodetection so miniConsole+ knows what you're plugging in.  You will need to connect some pins to ground and then you're all good for plug and play.  We'll publish information on how to make a DIY interface.

The Atari paddles use this same analog interface (with 1M resistors as described in Brunos post above).  In this pic wiring is done inside the DB15 shell of the cable.



In other news.  Here are some pics of our miniConsole+ device inside a prototype metallic case.  We’re considering other case options too such as clear acrylic.
If you plan to use miniConsole+ inside an arcade stick or cabinet then you won’t need a case.




You can see that the device has 3 ports.  Gamepads connect to the DB15 port (via an adapter cable).  At the other end we have the output ports.  USB compatible systems connect to the USB port (Type B) and other supported systems connect to the RJ45 port (via an adapter cable).  The miniConsole+ will automatically detect which systems and gamepads are connected and allow them to to communicate with each other.

We’ll be supplying DB15 and RJ45 adapter cables for all of the gamepads and systems that we support.  Alternatively,  you will be able to make your own by modifying a controller extension cable and following our DIY guide.

Here are more pics to show miniConsole+ connected to various gamepads and systems.





Here’s a short video to show some of the stuff that connects to KADE miniConsole+.  Apologies for the shaky camera - I was getting down with the DK funk.



Kickstarter will be soon.  We decided to delay things a little so we could cram in lots of extra functionality.

[Generic Eric]

Will the gamecube function support analog so I can use your product on a gamecube to play Rogue Squadron with a yoke?

Also, will there be a "Year of Star Wars" kit for connecting your product to a Star Wars yoke?

[opt2not]

I think I got motion sickness from that vid.

[degenatrons]

Will the gamecube function support analog so I can use your product on a gamecube to play Rogue Squadron with a yoke?

Also, will there be a "Year of Star Wars" kit for connecting your product to a Star Wars yoke?

Support for gamecube is input only at the moment,  we have plug and play detection for gamepad controllers.
If you can find a PSX to GC controller adapter then that would be an option for you.  Supported KADE outputs on the right hand side of graphic below.



For analog,  we'll make it possible for you to wire up any bespoke projects.  I'm not sure what a "Year of Star Wars" kit is.  Do you have more info on that?

[degenatrons]

I think I got motion sickness from that vid.

[Generic Eric]

Will the gamecube function support analog so I can use your product on a gamecube to play Rogue Squadron with a yoke?

Also, will there be a "Year of Star Wars" kit for connecting your product to a Star Wars yoke?

Support for gamecube is input only at the moment,  we have plug and play detection for gamepad controllers.
If you can find a PSX to GC controller adapter then that would be an option for you.  Supported KADE outputs on the right hand side of graphic below.



For analog,  we'll make it possible for you to wire up any bespoke projects.  I'm not sure what a "Year of Star Wars" kit is.  Do you have more info on that?

Short of being a dork for the better part of last year, no. 

Search for "Year of Star Wars" and you'll find a comment from me.  What I was getting at was though, was a kit with the PCB and two pots, maybe even some wires to connect to the Star Wars Yoke.  I'd have to look up in my email, but I think it was mouser that I got mine from.  If you buy pots in bulk greater than +10 I think you get a discount.  Cool way to offer a complete package.

[bootsector]

Will the gamecube function support analog so I can use your product on a gamecube to play Rogue Squadron with a yoke?

Also, will there be a "Year of Star Wars" kit for connecting your product to a Star Wars yoke?

As Jon mentioned, we support several systems via PS1/PS2 output plus using PS1/2 converters to the desired target system. The miniConsole+ impersonates a DualShock 1 controller, so it outputs left and right analog sticks correctly.

I've tested GC output via this PS2 to GC/XBOX adapter and it works great:

http://www.amazon.com/Gemini-Universal-Control-Converter-Playstation-2/dp/B00012YI14

[jshel65]

This gets more and more exciting each time there are updates!! I noticed that the wiimote is used as an output on one of the pics. Is/will it be possible to use this as wireless input for pc emulators if you have something like the dolphin bar which syncs the wiimote to pc?? Hopefully my question isn't confusing: Will we be able to plug whatever controller we would like into the kade device then rather than having usb output to the pc use the wiimote as wireless output to pc?

[degenatrons]

This gets more and more exciting each time there are updates!! I noticed that the wiimote is used as an output on one of the pics. Is/will it be possible to use this as wireless input for pc emulators if you have something like the dolphin bar which syncs the wiimote to pc?? Hopefully my question isn't confusing: Will we be able to plug whatever controller we would like into the kade device then rather than having usb output to the pc use the wiimote as wireless output to pc?

Sure,  the wiimote output mode can be used to connect to other systems that have bluetooth and support for wiimote drivers.  I'm currently testing wiimote/wireless output to raspberry pi using a bluetooth dongle.  I'll report back on the results.

[degenatrons]

A quick video to show how the miniConsole+ connects to systems and consoles.



It's not all about connecting to standard USB.
You can connect to original Xbox and WiiU - which both use non-standard USB protocol.
You can connect to Playstation 1 and Playstation 2 via an RJ45 adapter cable
You can connect to Wiimote via RJ45 adapter cable for wireless gaming on Wii, WiiU
You can connect to Xbox360, Dreamcast and other systems via third-party PSX converters.
You can connect to older consoles and computers such as NES, SNES, MegaDrive and NeoGeo using our multi-out addon board.

[bootsector]

It's worth mentioning that, when connecting to the WiiU, that could be either via Wiimote or USB, since the miniConsole+ also impersonates a GC to USB adapter (Super Smash Bros Brawl compatible).

[WakiMiko]

Kickstarter when??

Also, I don't suppose you can reveal any pricing details already, can you?

[jshel65]

Wow! The fact that this will be able to operate wirelessly to pc is huge! I have my pc in my living room so I am looking forward to wirelessly playing all of my emulators with original controllers from the couch. Awesome stuff guys...rock on KADE!

[Dalba]

I will had another question about pcengine/ turbografx. For these systems it exist 2 differents size for pad connector. Will kade minicosole support both connectors with cable adapter ?
And again, if you could find a solution for rumble... 

[degenatrons]

Kickstarter when??

Also, I don't suppose you can reveal any pricing details already, can you?

Our planned launch is now at the beginning of May.  We had to delay a while to do work on extra functionality such as output to WiiU, NES, SNES, Genesis and input from Dreamcast, Wii Classic/Pro controllers, arcade, analog and the customisation software so we knew it could all be delivered.

Pricing is not set yet but it will be competitive and there'll be options for DIY to save you $ if you are a maker.

[degenatrons]

I will had another question about pcengine/ turbografx. For these systems it exist 2 differents size for pad connector. Will kade minicosole support both connectors with cable adapter ?
And again, if you could find a solution for rumble... 

Thanks for your comment Dalba. The protocol is the same for the 2 different connectors,  it is only the shape/fitting that differs. PC Engine and TurboGrafx are one of the easiest extension cables to source because they use standard 8-Pin DIN connectors,  one of them is mini DIN.  We will bear this in mind when providing cable options.

[degenatrons]

We're considering options for labelling on the miniConsole+ case.  I made a sticker to give a visual of one idea.

[jshel65]

I like it...clean and simple!

[Locke141]

I like it...clean and simple!

+1

[CraftyMech]

The combination of red & black is really slick and professional!

[degenatrons]

This video shows how an optional LCD expansion board is connected to KADE miniConsole+ device via the expansion port on the PCB.



The LCD is invaluable for debugging and development and allows us to display useful information about the connected gamepad and system.

There will be many other uses for LCD including using them in your own arcade and fight stick projects.  We will explore options as the project evolves.

We have other expansion options too,  including an arcade expansion board which can accept a large number of additional inputs from joysticks and buttons to be used simultaneously with a connected gamepad.


^{Devices shown are prototypes}