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Author Topic: 360 wheels and mame  (Read 2871 times)

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winnydapoo

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360 wheels and mame
« on: October 15, 2014, 01:01:48 am »
Hi folks,

I am looking to make my own custom cab dedicated to super sprint. just wondering what the options are with regard to 360 wheels and what interface they link to with respect to mame. I have only built standard joystick/i-pac type mame cabs before so not quite sure where to start with this one.

Is it possible to make a DIY wheel, or are there decent priced 360 wheels on the market?

Anything that points me in the right direction would be appreciated.

Thanks!

winnydapoo

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Re: 360 wheels and mame
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2014, 02:02:18 am »
Actually a follow up question is, is it actually possible to have 3 spinners in use simultaneously using mame, to simulate a super sprint scenario? I'm not actually sure of that...

BadMouth

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Re: 360 wheels and mame
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2014, 09:01:46 am »
Your options:

1. Use spinners from GroovyGameGear or Ultimarc with the mini steering wheel attachments they offer.
    Although I like the product for occasional use, I wouldn't go this route on a dedicated cabinet.
    These devices weren't designed to take the abuse a steering wheel takes.

2.  Use original arcade wheels and optical boards with an interface such as the Opti-Wiz (groovygamegear), Opti-Pac(Ultimarc), or U-HID (Ultimarc).
     This is the route I would take.
     The Opti-Wiz and Opti-Pac both show up in windows as a mouse.  One device can be interfaced with two wheels (the x axis and y axis).
     These devices also have an input for the Z axis (scroll wheel), but because of the way MAME handles the z-axis it cannot be used for a wheel or spinner.
     Beware that there are a few oddball driving games that had the original optical sensors configured backwards compared to most ("active-high")
     I know badlands and hotrod are among them.  The Opti-Wiz will not work with these wheels.  The Opti-Pac and U-HID can be configured via software to handle it.

      The U-HID can be programmed to do anything, including handling the analog pedals.  I'm unsure if it can handle more than two optical axis though. 
     (it would have to show up in windows as two mice to do this).  I'd ask Andy at Ultimarc before purchasing.

3.  DIY.  You could build your own.  You'd need the wheel attached to a shaft, secured in a bearing.  On the end of that, you'd need an old hacked optical mouse
     or the wheel and boards from an old arcade driving or trackball setup.  Given you'd need to use the wheel and encoder board from an original machine anyway,
     I'd just go with option #2.

It is possible to use 3 spinners simultaneously in MAME.  Multi-Mouse must be enabled in mame.ini
This will make MAME view each mouse separately (mouse 1 x, mouse 1 y, mouse 2 x, mouse 2 y) instead of getting input from the windows system mouse (where they all work the same pointer).

I would also encourage you to use analog pedals.  You'd need an A-Pac, U-HID, or hacked gamepad to interface those.  I've also read that there is an analog firmware available for the KADE device, but I'm not sure of the details.  In games like Pole Position it's important to have analog pedals, otherwise the car squeals the tires and loses time every time you take off.
In games like Super Sprint and Ivan Stewart's offroad, I just mash the pedal anyway.  ;D

PL1

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Re: 360 wheels and mame
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2014, 05:21:52 pm »
2.  Use original arcade wheels and optical boards with an interface such as the Opti-Wiz (groovygamegear), Opti-Pac(Ultimarc), or U-HID (Ultimarc).
KADE also has two beta optical firmwares for the miniArcade/microArcade encoders and compatible atmega32u2 AVRs.

These devices also have an input for the Z axis (scroll wheel), but because of the way MAME handles the z-axis it cannot be used for a wheel or spinner.
Minor correction -- you can recompile MAME to divide the Z-axis by 4 which would make it behave like the X- and Y-axes.

TopJimmyCooks mentions doing that here.

I would also encourage you to use analog pedals.  You'd need an A-Pac, U-HID, or hacked gamepad to interface those.  I've also read that there is an analog firmware available for the KADE device, but I'm not sure of the details.  In games like Pole Position it's important to have analog pedals, otherwise the car squeals the tires and loses time every time you take off.
In games like Super Sprint and Ivan Stewart's offroad, I just mash the pedal anyway.  ;D
The atmega32u2 AVR in the KADE miniArcade/microArcade can't handle analog inputs. (no analog pins)

For analog pedals, you'll need an atmega32u4 (or newer) AVR like KADESTICK (see sig) with an analog firmware.

I'm also testing a modified version of the KADESTICK firmware with another 32u4 board that is more commonly available -- details will be posted in the KADESTICK thread fairly soon.   ;D


Scott

winnydapoo

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Re: 360 wheels and mame
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2014, 06:17:25 pm »
Thanks for the info, gives me plenty to go on :)

Paul Olson

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Re: 360 wheels and mame
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2014, 02:05:57 am »
I would definitely use arcade wheels. They can be found fairly cheap on ebay. Actually, the best thing to do would be to get a real Super Sprint cabinet with a bad monitor. The med res monitor costs more to replace than the game is worth, so you might get one pretty cheap. The U-HID is a great all in one solution in most cases. I used wheels from Atari Badlands because they are really easy to mount. Unfortunately, they do not work with the U-HID. They are (I think) active low, and the U-HID can only handle active high. I may have those reversed, but anyway, you would need to use an optipac with those wheels. Other than that, they have been great.

You can kinda see how easy the wheels are to mount in this pic. Just 3 holes to drill in the wood for the mounting screws, and one in between them to run the wires. Most other wheels would need an enclosure.

PL1

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Re: 360 wheels and mame
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2014, 02:35:56 am »
They are (I think) active low, and the U-HID can only handle active high. I may have those reversed
Most optical devices and encoders are active low.

Some encoders can be switched to accept active high inputs.


Scott

Paul Olson

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Re: 360 wheels and mame
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2014, 09:54:34 am »
They are (I think) active low, and the U-HID can only handle active high. I may have those reversed
Most optical devices and encoders are active low.

Some encoders can be switched to accept active high inputs.


Scott

Yeah, I just checked, and my optipac is set to active High for use with the Badlands wheels. The U-HID is not switchable, so these wheels are not usable with it.

winnydapoo

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Re: 360 wheels and mame
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 06:45:11 pm »
Thanks again folks, so much for me to learn around this stuff and lots of good info hehe.

Does anyone know if the super sprint pedals were progressive acceleration or just accelerator on/off? I haven't played an actual machine since i was a kid but I remember smashing it either on or off.

I actually have a crazy idea to make a 3 player bartop super sprint using the mini wheels, in a mini showcase style. It's not somethnig that will be hammered everyday, just the occasional game.

PL1

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Re: 360 wheels and mame
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 08:45:48 pm »
Super Sprint uses potentiometer pedals similar to these from WestControls.

See pg. 52 of the manual here.

You will need an analog encoder like KADESTICK, A-Pac, or U-HID for the pedals.


Scott

winnydapoo

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Re: 360 wheels and mame
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 11:53:42 pm »
Thanks scott great info.

I have found a few locally on ebay down here in AUS, the potentiometer version of the Happ modular pedals. Will probably go with those :)