Any plans or pics for rotary interfaces.

[rdagger]

Are there any free plans available to build rotary joystick interfaces to allow LS-30's to work with encoders?  I know Druin sells one, but I wanted to make my own.  Does anyone have any close up pictures of rotary interfaces?

See below for my completed interface

[u_rebelscum]

Doesn't Druin post his plans (or do you have to buy it)?  AFAIU, it's a fairly simple circuit, if you understand electronic circuits.

Me, a software man, added some direct LS-30 support to mameAnalog+ (see sig).  Only works with game that actually used 8way joystick - 12way rotary controllers like the LS-30.  (With the druin/mk64, you can also play spinner, optical rotary, and some 8way rotary games.)

To use the analog+ stuff, though, you need 12 inputs, such as 12 keys or 12 buttons, per rotary, in addition to the normal 4 for the joystick part.

[b3atmania]

Me, a software man, added some direct LS-30 support to mameAnalog+ (see sig).  Only works with game that actually used 8way joystick - 12way rotary controllers like the LS-30.  
To use the analog+ stuff, though, you need 12 inputs, such as 12 keys or 12 buttons, per rotary, in addition to the normal 4 for the joystick part.

Interesting. Does the mameAnalog+ software solution work with the 4-player I-Pac interface?

[rdagger]

I don't think I can spare 24 inputs on the IPAC for my 2 LS-30's.

Thanks, I found the drawings.  I wrote the software for the microprocessor today.  Now, I just have to build a programmer.

[u_rebelscum]

Me, a software man, added some direct LS-30 support to mameAnalog+ (see sig).  Only works with game that actually used 8way joystick - 12way rotary controllers like the LS-30.  
To use the analog+ stuff, though, you need 12 inputs, such as 12 keys or 12 buttons, per rotary, in addition to the normal 4 for the joystick part.

Interesting. Does the mameAnalog+ software solution work with the 4-player I-Pac interface?

Yes.  Use the ctrlr ini files to remap; there is no default inputs for all the directions (aka digital input, aka button).

[Lilwolf]

You will not be able to build one for the price/time it will take.  He has dropped his board price a LOT over the years hes selling them (and started gettng the board printed in mass).

So don't expect it to be cheaper... Or easy...

He does (or used to) sell a kit that you build your own.  It saved 10 bucks or something and you do all the soldering.

Also, consider hotswappable control panels.  Then the 24 inputs aren't the problem (the connection type is).  

[rdagger]

The interface is cheap to make.  The most expensive part is the microprocessor which costs $3.50.  I already have resistors, capacitors, connectors and a perf board.  The total cost should be under $10.   The whole project should only take a few hours.

[SirPoonga]

BTW, the mk64 encoder does ls-30 also.

[b3atmania]

The interface is cheap to make.  The most expensive part is the microprocessor which costs $3.50.  I already have resistors, capacitors, connectors and a perf board.  The total cost should be under $10.   The whole project should only take a few hours.

You need to get the PIC programmed as well. They are $3.50 like you said, but without the programcode AND the programmer device you won't get something that works.

[rdagger]

I already wrote the code for the microcontroller.  It is only about a dozen lines of high level and it took under an hour.  Still, I wont know if it works until I get it into a chip.

I'm trying to decide now between Atmel AVR and PIC.  The costs of both chips are now in the $3-4 range (for this project).  I probably will go with the AVR because there are some very powerful free compilers and the chips supposedly run faster.

Building a programmer will take a few hours and probably cost $10-15.  However, I will be able to use it in many future projects.

[Lilwolf]

btw... just to give you a little insite on your project.

If you are using a standard build of mame.

1) You will need to convert the 12 inputs into a "L" and a "R" as you might know... but You also have to hold it down for a set amount of time... And then get mame to run at the same speed.

2) If you are using AnalogMame.  This will help.  Just a single click for "L" and "R"... But also take note.  Do it to fast (push, release) and it will miss a few and you will have to click more then one.



Just a note

[geekbrain]

A friend and I are building almost identical MAME cabs.  He has a second CP to swap out that will use LS-30 rotaries.  I do not plan on using the rotary joysticks.  A couple of weeks ago he emailed Druin several times to see if Druin would share the PIC micro hex code.  No response to ANY of the emails.  Not exactly in the spirit of MAME, but Druin's entitled to do what he wants.  For those who like to build our own, the parts should come to less than $15.  The PCB is the biggest cost driver and is not part of the $15 estimate.

I was even thinking of building a competing PCB but I don't think there is enough volume to warrant it.  Besides, the spirit is to share, not stab in the back.  Being an electrical engineer and having hacked my way through Microchip's assembly code once before, I wrote code to slip the same uP into Druin's circuit.  It's straightforward, a few pullup resistors on the inputs and inline resistors for isolation.  The idea to use double up lines is clever (and wasn't even Druin's).  It's just a matter of debouncing the inputs and converting to CW and CCW rotations.

I wrote some assembly code and it appeared to work but seemed to run slow.  I haven't had time in the last month or so due to work related projects.  That should change on Friday and I hope to wrap up the effort shortly.  When I get the code working I will post a hex file for those who have access to a PROM burner.  I might consider to burning PROMs later on - I'll see how it goes and how much interest there is.

By the way, I owe a BIG thank you to Pat D. in TX - he took all sorts of detailed dimensions for me on a Phoenix cabinet he owned.  From those dimensions I was able to create the dimensions for our present MAME project.  Thanks AGAIN Pat!

Anyway if you (rdagger) send me your compiled code and a blank (Microchip PIC) uP I will burn it for you.  I'm so sure that you were able to code it in a dozen lines of high level code though.  A few words of caution if you go the PIC route.  The uP Druin uses is a OTP (one time programmable).  You get one shot at it.  If it doesn't work, there goes a couple of bucks out the window.  For the prototype I am using a PIC16F84 - a flash part that can be reprogrammed.  Once I get it working right I can migrate it to the other part with just a few minor changes.  If you're interested, post your email address or email me.  And like I said, I post a followup message containing the hex file when I get it working.

[eightbit]

WARNING Soap box alert

A couple of weeks ago he emailed Druin several times to see if Druin would share the PIC micro hex code.  No response to ANY of the emails.  Not exactly in the spirit of MAME, but Druin's entitled to do what he wants.

This makes me mad. Just because mame is free should everything related to it be free? Druin invested time and money into building and selling a circuit that those of us with no electrical experience could use. Why would you slam on him for not sharing that information with you? You even admitted to thinking about selling a circuit of your own. If you do decide to sell your circuit are you going to still make your code freely available? Would you have a problem if I took your code and made the circuit and sold it for a $1 less than you?

We have more choices available to us today than we did a year ago because of the little people that are able to fund the development of these advancements by selling them.

Mame is only free because they couldn't do it otherwise. If someone could find a way to charge for mame they would.

[rdagger]

I decided to go the AVR route with an Atmel AT90S2313-10PI flash microcontroller.  I picked up a few chips for $2.70 each.  I also picked up the parts to build an in-system programmer for around $5.00 and the compiling/programming software is free.   The total cost to build the interface should be about $10 (not including ISP).  I can't wait to get some free time so I can start soldering.

btw:  I'm all for free distribution of ideas and software.  Anyone who is interested in my spaghetti source code can have it.  I'm also open to any programming suggestions and I agree that combining every 6th wire was a clever trick (I never would have thought of it).  Eventually, I will create a web page with schematics, code and instructions.

[rdagger]

I was thinking more about the crossing of wires 1-7,2-8,3-9,4-10,5-11 & 6-12.  This is clearly a clever idea.  However, why not take it one step further and cross 1-4-7-10, 2-5-8-11 & 3-6-9-12.  This would cut down the number of inputs from 6 to 3.  Since we are only concerned with directional rotation, 3 inputs should be the minimum.

[PacManFan]

I've used the AVR2313 Microcontrollers before. I actually did a prototype interface for the rotary joysticks. The code and schematic was fairly simple. I like the 2313's , they are easy to work with. Where did you get them for 2.70$ I paid 3.75$ for each of mine.

You are going to need 2 of them to get enough inputs unless you use another chip to do a A/B muliplexer.

edit:
I hadn't thought about crossing the wires either, that's a great idea, that way you can just use 1 uC.

I'd like to see the schematic and code you come up with. I'd be more than happy to share mine.

-PMF

[rdagger]

Topic Summary  
Posted by: PacManFan  Posted on: Today at 01:12:23pm  
Where did you get them for 2.70$ I paid 3.75$ for each of mine.  

I bought 5 on Ebay for $2.50 each.  Shipping was $1.  They are 10PI which are suppose to have a higher temp rating then the 10PC.

Topic Summary  
Posted by: PacManFan  Posted on: Today at 01:12:23pm  
I've used the AVR2313 Microcontrollers before.

I'm trying to clone a Kanda STK200 programmer cable.  I've found 3 schematics using 74HC244 Octal Buffers to clean up the programming.  However, they are all slightly different in how they handle the looping and grounding of the pins coming off the DB25 parallel.  How do you program your AVR chips?

[geekbrain]

Eightbit - I do not expect everything related to MAME to be free.  I did not expect Druin to share the hex file.  What I did expect was the courtesy of a response to the request, of which at least three were sent.  I was not looking for a detailed response either.  Two simple keystrokes (N & O) and one mouseclick would have sufficed.  THIS is what made ME mad.

Yes, I did consider selling a circuit.  As I also stated, I was willing to share the code (for free, and still am) with those who have the ability to make use of it.  Since this is a hobby (for most of us; for others an obsession), I believe some of us get satisfaction from the construction of our project.  Some will build entirely from scratch, others will convert an existing cabinet, while others still purchase a pre-made ready to go cabinet, all controls/PC/etc. included.  To each his own.

I choose the first route.  I am building a cabinet from scratch.  I did purchase an IPAC though; time constraints and learning curve in designing factored into this decision.  Thanks to competition I had my choice of encoder:  Hagstrom, Keywiz, IPAC, hacked keyboard, etc.  This provides a range of prices and features.

Code is intellectual property, the owner of which can do whatever they please.  License it, charge for it, share it, whatever.  Once code has been written it costs absolutely nothing to post it.  Building a PCB requires time and effort and the designer/builder has every reason in the world to be compensated for their time.

I believe you missed my point.  This whole effort is about sharing.  Many posts to this forum are from those sharing their experiences, ideas and opinions.  That includes Saint who shared his storage and bandwidth to host this forum.  Without the sharing, MAME would be nowhere are good as it is today.  As I stated in my first post, a complete stranger halfway across the country went WAY out of his way to take detailed dimensions of a cabinet for me.  I am willing to share my code when it's completed.  Use it, don't use, it's up to you.  I am offering it for free.  If you want me to program a part for you do you think it's unreasonable to charge a couple of bucks for my time and effort to ship it back?  My point was Druin chose not to even respond.  Period.  He has every right to his code as well as every right to make a couple of bucks building a PCB.

Andy (the guy who makes the IPAC) responded quickly to my request regarding debounce time on the uP he uses.  He could have avoided my request as well.  But he didn't - it's the customer service which adds value to the product.  Well enough of my rant.  You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.  Hopefully I've clarified my position to those who mistook my earlier post.

[rdagger]

I just completed my rotary interface and it works.  Total cost of the interface is $7.88.  I also spent $1.15 to build an AVR programmer.  I have to give props to Druin because his design provided me with many insights.   I took the trick of crossing 12 wires down to 6 one step further by crossing 12 down to 3 wires.  Since the interface only needs to determine clockwise or counter-clockwise, 3 wires is sufficient and simplifies the design.  Another difference in my design is the use of a single AVR instead of 2 PIC's.  The single AVR has more than enough speed to handle 2 joysticks.  I'm actually running the processor at only 4MHz, because my local electronic store was out of 10MHz resonators.  Yet even at 40% speed it has no trouble keeping up with fast moving rotations.  I also included a 10 pin connector on the board that allows for in-system programming (ISP).  The ISP port connects to my computer and allows me to download updates to microcontroller without having to pull the board out.  This was a fun project and it was the first time I have worked with microcontrollers.  In terms of time, I spent about a

[zero-one]

rdagger: That's awesome. It looks like your solution is a great and simplified one. Do you plan on posting a schematic, part list and the code? I'd love to build myself one of these too but I was too intimidated to try my hand at programming micro-controllers. With all the parts I'm sure that I can put it together even with my own mediocre soldering skills.

Again, very impressive.

[edit]
I was just looking at the picture again and i'm confused. Where are the outputs to the keyboard encoder for both joysticks? I would have expected 5 wires somewhere for ground, P1 Rotate Right, P1 Rotate Left, P2 Rotate Right, and P2 Rotate Left. All I see is are the blue/black, and green/black wires which could be good for only one joystick. What am I missing?

Also I noticed that you put the resonator in a socket. Wise man!
[edit]

Too bad that the rotary joysticks keep getting more expensive.

Cheers.

[rdagger]

Do you plan on posting a schematic, part list and the code?

I am putting together a web site and I will post the schematics, more photos, parts list and the code.

Where are the outputs to the keyboard encoder for both joysticks?

The right angle pins on the bottom of the picture are the outputs.  From left to right, the blue is Joystick 1 CCW, black is Joystick 1 CW, green is Joystick 2 CCW and black is Joystick 2 CW.  The colors are not very intuitive, but I try to recycle existing parts.  The connectors are from an old 386 motherboard.  The 2 pins on the left of the picture are +V (red) and common ground (black).  The ground is shared just like a Perfect 360 joystick.

I was going to add a jumper to the board to reverse polarity for different encoder platforms and a variable resistor to adjust the output pulse duration.  However,  it is easier to change these parameters in the code.

Too bad that the rotary joysticks keep getting more expensive.

I bought the LS-30's because I don't have much room under my control panel.  However, with a little effort you could probably graft a 12 position rotary switch on to the bottom of a super.  I've seen cheap rotary switches for sale on eBay.

[zero-one]

I look forward to bookmarking your site! Your project might be a good starting point for me to learn more about micro-controller programming.

Thanks!

[beek]

Cool, I just picked up two ls30s off ebay.  Can't wait for your web page.

[Lilwolf]

What are you using?  Straight mame or analogmame?

If your running mame... how long are you holding down the button for?  

I have the MK64 solution and recently rewired it to use the direct connect to analogmame.

ITS GREAT!  I can spin all the way around and back in an instant...  But it doesn't currently work in ikari warriors and a few others (victory road).  

[Druin]

I'm entering this discussion rather late, which is also part of my story - I've had quite limited online activity almost for a year in a way, but especially starting October.  I moved a year ago and have been renovating ever since, switched over internet access, had a blown up computer, you name it, it's happened all this year.  Not to mention the day job and overtime to help pay for all of this.  
As a result I have only had time to pay attention to the most critical emails and I still have about 100 unread over the past few months.  In skimming some, I saw the program request but didn't reply, partly due to prioritization of my online time, and partly because I've had a lot of these requests and in some cases people would write back flames for not being willing to give something away for free, etc, so with my little free time, I decided to dodge those emails after a certain point.  Beyond that, I don't feel a need to justify.
Yes it's a hobby and founded on sharing, but at this point in time for me, it's a hobby that's been pushed far aside for other things.  I still don't even have a cabinet or proper control panel even.   I'm aiming for THIS coming year, to make a cabinet. I have enough Home Depot experience now at least.  Every time I'm there looking for renovation materials, I can't help look around for things that may also be of use in a cabinet.

Regarding my interface design, I chose Pic because I already had a programmer and some experience in the coding, and had never programmed an Atmel.  I didn't see any advantage in trying to learn atmel just for that, even building the no brainer download cable wasn't worth it when I had a PIC programmer right there.  The only thing that made me even think about switching is the in circuit programming option, but I also didn't see any need to reprogram the chips once the code matured - there's only so much you can tweak in that kind of project before it's good for life.  

I only used the 6 input method per joystick rather than trying to go down to 4 or 3 pins because with my code as it was, I was having bouncing problems, it may be just my original concept needing an adjustment but what I found with only 3 or 4 inputs was...I could over-turn the joystick too fast beyond that set of 3 or 4 inputs, and it would look like a backwards rotation even though I'm still going forward...if that makes sense...Back when I was given the 6 input concept, the first thing I tried was going with 3 or 4 inputs but I thought why bother, I decided to use 2 chips anyway so I had enough inputs to go with all 6 inputs and not have to tweak code.

So why did I go with 2 chips instead of 1?  Also probably just my code problems but I found that with 1 chip (I started with a single 40pin chip 3 years ago) I wasn't reading the 2 joysticks fast enough.  I would miss rotations.  Back then, however, I was still reading all 12 inputs, times two joysticks, so that was one possible problem.  Also another problem, I started out with just 1 joystick in the program, then when it worked, I tried to tack on the extra joystick and had some trouble so I kind of did some redundant coding, but in the end it gave problems and I didn't have time to worry about it.  That's when I switched to the 2 smaller chips with 1 joystick of code each, which I had already proven to work with no problem, and even with using 2 chips now, they were combined still less than half the cost of the original 40pin chip so I thought that's a good enough improvement in design for now, and that's the first time my costs came down.  

My first prototype code, I forget how long it actually took but I consider it to be a week of development because I had to keep modifying it for the timing and trying to get 1 joystick converted to 2 joysticks, having problems, etc.  I had to work with the output debouncing, and the input debouncing a lot, I was getting a lot of timing problems on reading the inputs because if I remember properly, at least on the yellow joysticks, there's one position on the switch where it seems to be worse for bounce.  I dont' know if Happ ones are the same, or if it was my imagination, but during a 12 position test rotation, one of the transitions would bounce backwards until I made the debounce ridiculously overdone.  Maybe I could have optimised it more, but maybe due to all this debounce, I also had trouble with my timing with 2 joysticks in one chip, that and having  more pins to handle than 3 or 4 per joystick.

The circuit being made for about $7 is all fine, but when you factor in the assembly time if you're doing that in bulk, and the cost of having the custom circuit boards made and shipped to you, and other overheads, $7 isn't really what you end up with.  Hobby, maybe...if people build it themselves....but again, even if people have electronics as a hobby and can very well make the programmers and get the parts and solder the proto boards, Im' guessing many people still don't have time or energy for it. I used to but not anymore.  If I saw the website with the plans and code, I'd still probably email the person asking if they offer a shortcut kit or assembly.  

As for sharing everything freely, I used to back when I started, I only developed this circuit for myself in summer 2000 because I wanted to play Ikari and I found some joysticks on Ebay, thought it can't be that bad to figure out how they're wired, and I made the program.  I forget how I discovered that there was a demand for this but I put up the website and had the source code and schematics and all, and people still preferred to have me assemble it.  Back then it was 3hours to do a proto board version, which is also why the initial cost was much higher for me, all that extra labor, again I was using all 12 inputs per joystick with the first design, a lot more work too.

Eventually I decided people didn't really seem to care about having the code/plans, so I stopped supporting it, as well as offering programmed chips even for people who just wanted to solder it, without programming. Noone seemed to really want anything except a fully assembled unit, which I would too.  So I left the site with just enough info to debug a messed up circuit with the schematics, since I was using proto boards and maybe there's a bigger chance something could get damaged and need fixing/tracing.  I always thought I was doing just fine with this level of sharing I was at.  

Maybe eventually I did become protective of the code, at first I was happy to spend hours building these things without considering the money, I felt better about the fact that people appreciated my design work, and it was unique so it was even more appreciation.  I was a student so the money was useful but secondary.  Then I got out of school and had a while with no job, and the proceeds from this interface were very helpful and worth protecting.  And now, with a job, although I have a normal work situation, I also have a lot more things to pay (like this year's renovation) and just selling a few of these interfaces actually makes a big difference.  Comparing my salary to selling a few interfaces, it looks negligible, but it definitely makes a difference in reality when you have a bigger home depot bill than you have in left over monthly salary.  So currently this is why I am protective of this code.  I have no idea what the future holds.  I haven't intended to hold onto it forever, but I had no plans in the near future to go public again.  

I do wish I could further optimize the circuit and lower the cost.  I'm on my 4th optimization right now but maybe I'll someday try to get it back down to 1 chip, make a smaller board that's cheaper to make, faster to assemble and test, and make it more affordable.  Right now with renovation, my tools are all boxed everywhere, I have no work space, and it'll have to wait.  Perhaps when I start working on a cabinet I'll get inspired to work on that too.

[Druin]

Another note about reliability, speaking of perf boards, even my first real circuit board design wasn't good enough because they were single sided and the joystick headers would have too much strain from plugging and unplugging, with solder just on the bottom side pads to hold it.  it was OK but I had a few boards that were loose and had to have manual jumpers put on.
The reliable product was achieved when I made a board with double sided tracks top and bottom, and the holes being plated through.  This allowed solder to fill the connector hole fully, and overflow on top and bottom board sides, so it held all throughout..  Then the joystick headers never gave a problem again.  

The difference was like trying to hold a 4x4 wooden post in the ground with scotch tape on the ground, vs pouring cement all around the pole in a 4 foot hole.  

I'm looking through my code now, I haven't seen it since over a year ago.  I have it running at 4MHz with an internal RC oscillator (we don't need precise timing on something like this so I didn't care about not having a crystal, and it makes the board and costs easier not to have one).
If I read it correctly, it looks like I am setting my output rotations to last just below 50mSec on each activation....

I'm starting to get interested in looking at the design again now. After so long not thinking about it, I have a clear outside perspective and I may be able to improve some things.  I see some weird stuff going on in that code, must have been lots of late nights.  If I had a lot of time I'd probably try to learn Atmel and get a programming cable made.  I might try to see if I can work on the PIC version and maybe even redo it from scratch using what I already learned, and try to properly write it for 2 joysticks on one chip, then if that goes well, move to atmel.  Then redo the board smaller again and cut the cost.  First I'd have to get settled in the renovation dust for a while.

This reminds me of the Button Box keyboard encoder project, first made on a PIC, then on Atmel.  The schematics and code were freely published and the program seemed to have the modern features we look for in keyboard encoders, programmability etc.  I even bought an atmel chip in case I get around to experimenting, but I never did...even though I could have put some effort into it and had a cheap home made keyboard encoder, I still went and ordered the 4 player Ipac.  And Opti pac, even though I also have working info on making a mouse.   Even without button box full featured code, I made my own small keyboard encoder with a PIC, just with a few dedicated inputs to test it out, and hard coded outputs for those inputs, non programmable, simple just to see if I could communicate........and I could.  Even if I didn't make it programmable, if I just had hard coded keys, and used in circuit reprogramming to change the layout if I needed different keys...I could have gone that route, but I preferred to buy the proper industry standard boards because it's easier and someone else already put the time that I'd have to put into figuring out the little things.  It was a good feeling the day I plugged into the PS/2 keyboard port with a chip and grounded a wire and saw "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" show up on the DOS prompt, but that's about all I was willing to put into it.   Laziness prevails.

[spidermonkey]

Druin, its nice to see your lurking around here again. . I just received your board a couple weeks ago ands its worth every penny. I wouldn't give any of your info away because its your design and we wouldn't have been able to use rotarys over the past couple of years if it wasn't for you.

[Druin]

I managed to make it back to the message boards since I've been on vacation days plus christmas days off, consecutive, and after doing a pile of catching up on life, I find myself with insomnia like the good days, where I had nothing to wake up for, no school, no work, so I stayed up all night.  This is my 4th or 5th night in a row where I probably can't sleep until after sunrise, so what better way to spend it than pondering controls and cabinets...and trying to build up 0.78 files...grrrrr  

[Howard_Casto]

I know some people will only use the ls-30s but did anyone think of using the optical rotary sticks?  They are exactly the same physically, give roughly the same input (in terms of mame at least)  and ALL rotary games in mame have native optical support (read have been hacked to use optical inputs)... meaning instead of wasting 20 inputs or fudging with what some of you guys are calling a slightly imperfect interface board all you have to do is hack a mouse.

I'm all about the arcade purity, but in terms of actual gameplay, the only diff I can tell between the two sticks is the distinctive clicks of the mechanical one.  (Although some on this board have tried to convince me otherwise.)  If you want the clicky noises so bad just put a baseball card in the spokes.

[Druin]

I think it comes down to the specific Mechanical Rotary obsession...where no reasoning will make any difference.  I could probably use opticals with no "problem" if I tried, but the fact remains I remember being in grade 9 standing in the mall arcade in front of Guerrilla war, and it was the first time I saw those yellow joysticks, thought they were funny looking, so I put in a quarter and then realized you can aim by rotating them, and that was all a part of the fascination with playing the game....since this is a very specific nostalgic element in those games, that's the way I want to play them today.

Likewise, I played Arkanoid a few years prior, and yet I don't have the same utmost obsession over spinners. I am perfectly content playing Arkanoid and Tron using a desk top mouse for input, although I do have a spinner - just not hooked up and no rush for it...

WIth the rotary games it is just a particular obsessive need.

[rdagger]

This message replaces a prior message, because I noticed a mistake on the schematics.  Joystick 2 pin 8 was connected incorrectly to the AVR pin 7.  Joystick 2 pin 7 should have been connected to AVR pin 7.

Once again, I just want to thank Druin for being a pioneer.  I recommend that most people would be better of buying his interface.  The DIY approach is really only for people who enjoy soldering and want to learn about microcontrollers.  Also Druin's board is more reliable then a perf with soldered wires.

My first prototype was tested with a keyboard hack using a 3000 uS high pulse.  I am writing another version to reverse the polarity so it will work with the more popular keyboard encoders.  I still need to get an encoder.  Once I get one, I will be able to determine the proper pulse length.

A web page may take me a few weeks because I'm in the process of moving.  Here are the schematics.  I'm not an engineer, so I appologize if they are unconventional.

[ripzone]

Does anyone have the code for this DIY adapter?