ddr/dance pads with leds and microswitch - how to wire all that !

[hycday]

Hello,

I am trying to build two dance pads (for DDR-like games) with 6 clickable panels per pad. While I see many tutorials/diy/byo on internet, I saw that they are ALL outdated, or not detailed enough as per the electronic aspect for the LEDS (and also as per the system of microswitch, I still don't get how to install these under the plexi without getting them to always be pushed under the pressure/weight of the plexi... but anyway).

So for the LEDs, I was planning on getting two 5m strips band of white LEDs and cut it into 20cm bands and put 4 of them per square/panel which would give approx 80cm per panel, times 6 (up, down, left, right, and two extras), which gets me to 4.8m, per pad.

However, my question is related to how to wire all this ?

First of all, I think I can wire the bands in square, per panel with this :
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/10-SET-RGB-T-Shape-4pin-Female-Clip-Quick-Connector-LED-Strip-to-Strip-PCB-/181382701336?pt=US_Lighting_Parts_and_Accessories&hash=item2a3b406118

but then, I need to know how to wire them :

1- with the microswitch (as I want them to light up when the microswitch is pressed). will this be a problem if the leds are 12v ?
2- with the power supply, as I would like only one power supply for all the LEDs, but not all leds lit at the same time, but only when the related microswitch is pressed. will I need resistance also ?
3-connect all that to a usb game controller to send the right command via usb

so I never really saw clear explanation on that side, so it is indeed a major stop when trying to build your own ddr pad !

by the way, if you have one nice tutorial to share, please feel free to do so !

thanks for any help/advice !

[PL1]

PBJ got some  "Korean bootlegs from Taiwan."      

You can see some good pics in his Project Announcements thread here.


Scott

[hycday]

Thanks PL1

well actually, I already read that thread also, but I don't got any really useful information from it. I mean technical guidance or wiring schematics or technical solutions (besides the sentence "The pushbutton is always lit when it's powered.  Clicking it breaks that connection and lights the bulbs around the arrow.  Yes, those are mostly 555 bulbs with wires soldered directly to them and affixed to the wood with hot glue.  One 47.")

for example, I thought the microswitch needed to be power by 5v, while the led by 12v. first of all, I am right ?
here are my microswitch :
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/10x-momentanee-Limite-Micro-Switch-V-155-1C25-SPDT-commutateur-daction-WOZ-/201089496912?pt=JG_FR_Auto_Pi%C3%A8ces&hash=item2ed1de3750

second, if that is true, then how to wire them in the same circuit !?

and besides that, how to be able to have one power supply that will lit one, two, up to six panels independently
is this possible ?

[hycday]

Hi again,

I would like to know if such a wiring (refer to picture) would work ?



would I need to add a resistance or any other components ? will there be any issue with the power supply and the leds bande length (minimum/maximum) ?

also, how would the wiring from the microswitch to the usb game controller be?

thanks again for your help !

[pbj]

Do you know how cherry microswitches work?  They have one line that's normally closed, one that's normally open.  Pressing the switch reverses that.

I used 4.5V Christmas light strings to light up the arrows, and the pushbuttons underneath have 5V LEDs in them.  If you have enough LEDs in a circuit (about 20), you don't need resistors.  The 5V LEDs in the pushbuttons already have resistors built in.

[hycday]

Thanks pbj for your answer.

Yes I know how the microswitch work. I think I use the NO position (and COM of course) for the buttons on my bartop.

However, in this case, I wont use the buttons, just the microswitchs. So no leds in the pushbuttons.
If I want to use 12v leds, (each arrow has four 20cm bands connected in square, and I also want 2 other buttons, so 6 in total, making a total of 4.8m of leds stripes), is my drawing ok (assuming the drawing is only for 2 arrows) ? In this case I would need resistor or is everything automatically controlled by the power supply ?
also, how to add the usb gamepad wiring to my schema ? I don't get if I should connect the link to the usb gamepad at the NC position as well, or it will get the 12v and burn (as it should be a usb one, so max 5v)

(I will try to do a better drawing in about an hour)

[NickG]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,48020.msg465790.html#msg465790  This is one of the simplest lit-when-pressed circuits, I use this  circuit with a PSX gamepad hack for the controller and 12v LEDs.  There are many other approaches, 7404 is another good simple one. I have used an assortment of power for the led's, all worked;  "Wall-wart", ATX computer psu 12V, 9v battery (when I had incandescent bulbs, before I got the LED's)  I am now using a voltage step-up module powered from the Playstation2 controller connection for my 12V; this uses Playstation 2 controller power when connected to Playstation2, and the PC power supply via my Parallel Port to PS2 controller connector when connected to the PC.  (This is for a Pop'n Music controller but the operation is about the same, I have TX2000 for the DDR)
 

[hycday]

Thanks for the schematic NickG. Could you explain the purpose of the diode ?

Also, why is it written 5v under the led ?

I would have thought it should be 12v, and the resistor decreased it to 5v for the encoder

I will now try to adapt this to my configuration and show you so that I can have advises if I am correct or not

(please excuse my bad english)

[NickG]

The button grounds each encoder line through a diode (per button), rather than directly to common through the button.  (use an encoder which has common grounded inputs.)
  orientation of diode prevents reverse current to the encoder, so 5v, 9v,12v... encoder don't care because you protect it with properly rated diode (I am using 1N4001's)  Yes, you will put your 12V where the 5v was in Trimoor's schematic.

When button is open, no current may flow through led.  No current through encoder either.  Also no reverse current from led to encoder because diode.  When button is pressed.  led circuit finds ground.  Encoder circuit finds ground.

[hycday]

so the encoder can be connected to usb on the other side, and the diode (1N4001 are said to be blockage voltage from 50 to 1000 volts, how is that the good one ? I thought I would need a diode blocking for 12v, so more from 0 to 50v ?) will prevent to current going to it, while still allowing the encoder to go to ground ?
if I am right, then I understand better, however I dont get the purpose of the resistor then. at first I thought it was to decrease the 12v to 5v, but then I realised that the encoder is in usb and thus wont need the 5v.
so whats the resistor for and how to choose it ?

edit : oh and also, I would need to separate the wires of the led stripes so that the ground are separated and connected all together, before going to the switches?
and I thought I would need to connect the buttons to the ground on the usb gamepad, but now they are on the ground of the 12v power supply...

edit 2 : here is the schematic I did
the DDR pad would have 6 'clickable' pads : up/down/left/right/A/B and 2 real buttons for start and select
each led in the schematics is in fact composed of 4 bandes of 20cm of leds, each bands having 6 leds, so 24 leds per square (and 144 leds for the 4.8m of total leds per pad)
if this is correct, I need to know how to compute which resistor I need, as well as which diode I need

[NickG]

IN4001 are known to work for this application, I am not saying a better option does not exist.  I have used this circuit for many years now and no leakage problems have issued.
You typically won't need the additional resistors for "12V" led, it should be included in the part.  There is really not such a thing as a 12V LED that I am aware of; 12V LED are usually a regular led or array of leds and included resistor(s), ready to be directly powerd by 12v supply, you should not have to add any resistors.  Check the part spec.   
If your led do not include the resistor(s), you can calculate with this tool:
http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz
Your circuit looks about correct.   I think in my setup, I also had the controller (inputs)common connected to ground, to avoid potential difference.

[hycday]

yes, when I speak about leds bandes/leds stripes, I am talking about these :



so I would need to separate the wires of these to add a resistance (what for? from 12v to what?) unless it comes with the power supply. this is still confusing to me..
in your link, it asks for diode forward voltage/diode forward current, this is the diodes that is before the encoder or no ?

as per the ground of encoder, it also goes to the ground of the power supply ? I tought it goes anyway to it via the switches

[NickG]

A led strip product may exist which does not include the required resistance in order to get a smaller for factor or something, but just buy the type with the resistors already in place, for example:
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1EODB_enUS556US556&biw=1280&bih=923&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=led+strip+12v&oq=led+strip+12v&gs_l=img.3..0j0i24l3.268324.269127.0.269349.4.4.0.0.0.0.84.202.4.4.0....0...1c.1.51.img..0.4.201.CSErFLsg5gY#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=XMW63DCxwq8VBM%253A%3BLamubQXw_9N45M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.usledsupply.com%252Fshop%252Fmedia%252Fcatalog%252Fproduct%252Fcache%252F1%252Fimage%252F9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95%252Ff%252Fl%252Fflex_strip_5050_12v_flex_strip_2400k.gif%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.usledsupply.com%252Fshop%252F12v-warm-white-flex-strip.html%3B1280%3B853

The '151" between the LED's in that picture are the SMT resistors. These strips are usually parallel  or parallel pair already, just cut them at the correct place and power directly at about 12V.

Nevermind the other link unless you are building your own LED strings from bare components, but the forward voltage is for a Light Emitting Diode (LED); that is an LED calculator.

I would just have ground of the controller encoder be at same level as the LED PSU, but maybe it is not necessary.

[hycday]

Hi NickG,

would this kind of wiring also work ? (i guess X and start are two additional buttons)



thanks !

[NickG]

Yes, that is for incandescent bulbs, though.  That is how my controller is actually wired, because I was originally using bulbs.  Now that I have replaced the bulbs with 12V LED modules, the additional diode for the lamp becomes unnecessary, as LED is already a Diode.  I would leave it out; assuming your 12V supply has good regulation, the additional diode would drop your "lights" supply by about 0.7V, which may cause them to light less fully.  I do not have this problem and did not have to remove mine because I am using one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/XL6009-LM2596S-DC-DC-Step-Up-Down-Boost-Buck-Voltage-Power-Converter-Module-/201138075192?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed4c37638 to power the LEDs  from the Playstation 2  controller power and can tune LED supply to >12V to still have 12V across the LED.   (I only have 9 LED, so current draw from the controller bus is less a concern in my case)