IPAC Shift question...

[Jakobud]

I was getting ready to order an IPAC and some stuff from Andy but I had a question about the behavior of the SHIFT button that I can't seem to get from Ultimarc.com.

Lets say I have my joystick and buttons and then I have one extra button.  Normally, I want this to be the PAUSE button in Mame.  But I also want it to serve as the IPAC Shift button.  So if I press the button and let go, it pauses the game (and unpauses if I do it again).  But if lets say I want to use the shift function:

Lets say I have these keys setup:

P    -    PAUSE in Mame    -    this is the IPAC shift button also
P1   -    1 Player Start        -   Shifted,   this = TAB

When I press in the IPAC Shift button and hold it (activating the SHIFT) then I press P1  (to make the TAB menu come up), does the TAB menu come up right away or does it wait until I 'release' the P1 button? Or does it wait until both buttons are released?  

Also when I do this, will Mame pause (since my shift key is the same as pause)?  It seems logical to make my Pause button the IPAC Shift button also, but I don't want Mame pausing and unpausing back and forth as I'm doing things in the TAB menu everytime I have to press the IPAC Shift button...

[_Iz-]

When I press in the IPAC Shift button and hold it (activating the SHIFT) then I press P1  (to make the TAB menu come up), does the TAB menu come up right away or does it wait until I 'release' the P1 button? Or does it wait until both buttons are released?

It activates immediately.

Also when I do this, will Mame pause (since my shift key is the same as pause)?  It seems logical to make my Pause button the IPAC Shift button also, but I don't want Mame pausing and unpausing back and forth as I'm doing things in the TAB menu everytime I have to press the IPAC Shift button...

It as long as another input is activated while holding the shift key then the shift key won't do it's function. IE: It won't activate pause when you use it for a shift to get TAB.

One caveat, you won't get pause until you RELEASE the shift button without hitting another input. You might find this disconcerting if you are in a hurry to get the game paused... The shift button itself is the only one that activates on button release, all others activate on button press.

[Tiger-Heli]

Good question, and a good opportunity to highlight the differences between an I-PAC and KeyWiz shift function.

Here is how I understand how the I-PAC shift function works and then I will get to your specific example.

When you press the shift button on the I-PAC, no code is sent until you either

1) Press another button (Sends Shifted code for that button immediately)

2) Release the Shift button (sends the Shift button's normal code).

When I press in the IPAC Shift button and hold it (activating the SHIFT) then I press P1  (to make the TAB menu come up), does the TAB menu come up right away or does it wait until I 'release' the P1 button? Or does it wait until both buttons are released?  

Also when I do this, will Mame pause (since my shift key is the same as pause)?  It seems logical to make my Pause button the IPAC Shift button also, but I don't want Mame pausing and unpausing back and forth as I'm doing things in the TAB menu everytime I have to press the IPAC Shift button...

Again, as I understand it your pause button will work normally as long as you don't press any other buttons.  However, MAME will pause and unpause on the Button RELEASE (not press).

In the example above, MAME will NOT pause when the Shift button is first pressed.  When you then Press P1 Start, the TAB menu will come up immediately, but MAME will still remain unpaused unless you release both buttons and press and release the PAUSE key again.

If this is acceptable, that's fine.

I know I sound like I use every post to recommend the KeyWiz lately, but if you want MAME to pause when the Shift key is pressed, you might want to consider it.

The KeyWiz (www.groovygamegear.com), gives you four more inputs, so you could have dedicated Pause and Tab buttons.

Also see http://www.fraggersxtreme.com/arcadepanels/encoder/shiftkeys.htm .

If you wanted extra admin buttons, you could wire them up as shown in the "Stealth Mode" section of the page above.

If you wanted less buttons on your panel and wanted the Shift (Shazaaam!) button to function like the I-PAC but actually Pause MAME before activating, you could wire the KeyWiz as shown in "I-PAC Compatibility Mode" and it will do this.

Basically, this is a good example of a case where the differences in shift methodology determines which encoder you want:

Pause and then activate - KeyWiz

Activate without Pausing - I-PAC

Let me know if you didn't follow all that :-)

[Jakobud]

Cool thanks that answered my questions perfectly.  It sounds like the functionality I want is in the IPAC over the Keywiz.  Thanks

[Sprucemoose]

Jakobud,

You are probably aware, but if not:  remember that mame does not act kindly to setup changes while the game is paused.

[grafixmonkey]

That's such a weird problem...   I wonder why it never gets fixed?  (Note - not complaining.  I couldn't code MAME if I were neutered and put in a box with a computer and an infinite supply of Mountain Dew.)

[Gideon]

Jakobud,

You are probably aware, but if not:  remember that mame does not act kindly to setup changes while the game is paused.

"Does not act kindly"?  LOL.  That sounds a little strange... What do you mean?

By the way, this was a very good question; thanks for asking (and answering) it!

[Tiger-Heli]

"Does not act kindly"?  LOL.  That sounds a little strange... What do you mean?
By the way, this was a very good question; thanks for asking (and answering) it!

Hate to put out bad data, but I don't remember specifics . . .

Seems like MAME can't tell between L Shift and R Shift and L Ctrl and R Ctrl, (maybe can't tell the NumPad from the Number keys at the top of the keyboard), etc. when Paused.

A board search will answer it, as it's been asked often in the past.

Any if MAME is not paused, it doesn't happen, and in this situation, the I-PAC will not Pause MAME, so Jakobud should be fine.

[microwrx]

Why would you bother with a seperate pause button when hitting the shift button and down on the joystick is already pre-configured for pause with the I-PAC?

I've never had any issues making setup changes whilst paused in MAME.  Then again I don't make many changes either.

[Tiger-Heli]

Why would you bother with a seperate pause button when hitting the shift button and down on the joystick is already pre-configured for pause with the I-PAC?

Two reasons - 1) if you're playing the game and the phone rings or you need to bother a guest, you might not want to have to remember what combination of 1P Start and some other key to press to pause the game, and . . .
2) If you use the standard I-PAC default of having the 1P Start be the Shift key, there is a high probability of pressing 1P Start and 2P start together and ending your game, or doing some other unintentional thing.  If the Pause key is your shift key, you are very unlikely to press 2P start or one of the action buttons accidentally at the same time you are trying to Pause the game.  I think it's a very good idea.

I've never had any issues making setup changes whilst paused in MAME.  Then again I don't make many changes either.

I have.  .  .  Not very often, but when it happens and you can't figure out why MAME suddenly won't do what you think it should, it's frustrating, and you'll remember and take the advice of the veterans of the board.  Trust SpruceMoose and Urebel and me on this one.

[microwrx]

Fair enough!  Each to their own I suppose.

[wpcmame]

Before you decide on the IPAC please note that there are some "undocumented" behavior of the shift button.

1. If you hold down another key the shift button will
send the "P" right away (not waiting until you release it).
This means that it is impossible to send shifted and unshifted codes at the same time. (Know it is a minor thing but I have one of these weird motherboards that will only start if you press ctrl+f12. With an IPAC it is impossible to send ctrl+f12 without having both ctrl and f12 in the unshifted map)

2. Shifted keys will only be pulsed for ~200ms even if you keep holding them down. I want to use shift+joystick to pan the display but is doesn't work very well. It also makes it difficult to send two shifted keys at the same time since you need to press them within 200ms.

[AndyWarne]

Something is not right here because the I-PAC shifted keys should send at full speed if the shift button is held down, effectively giving a fully usable second code set. There should be no "pulsing".
I have a new version of the I-PAC which has "cumulative key macros" so you can program, for example, ctrl-F12 to one single button. If you drop me an email we can try to find out why it's not performing as it should and maybe arrange an upgrade to the macro-capable version.