DIY Spinner using common Potentiometer?

[jedimasta]

Subject pretty much says it all. I've got an I-PAC 2 for my controls, which I'm pretty sure doesn't support the typical spinners available on Ultimarc and elsewhere. Assuming that, I'm left with a USB solution, but I can't help but think I could cobble one together with a little help from the more experienced. I've got potentiometers lying around the workshop that might work well if I can get them to interface with the PC and MAME.

Has anyone done this? Is there a way to wire it to USB and have it recognize as, for example, an X-axis for Arkanoid?

[Generic Eric]

Opti-wiz @ http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=76_85
or
Opti Pac @ ultimarc.com

Or search for spinner/mouse hack here or on google.

[Nephasth]

Use a mouse.

[PL1]

Since you mentioned Arkanoid, don't bother even trying to mess with an el-cheapo hack -- get a TT2 from GGG.

Best.  Spinner.  Ever.

Potentiometers (turn range is usually limited) need an analog encoder like a KADESTICK AVR (see link in sig), an A-Pac, or a U-HID.

Spinners (turn range not limited) use an optical encoder like Optiwiz, OptiPac, U-HID, or some of the KADE firmwares.


Scott

[paigeoliver]

The problem with potentiometer based spinners is that they aren't going to work right for anything you want to play. They got phased out around the same time that games went from color to black and white (I think the Gee Bee / Bomb Bee series were the last to use them). You stick a pot based spinner on Arkanoid and it is going to want to keep moving in whatever direction the pot is off center from.

Also, Pot based spinners wear the heck out really fast, I think that is why the industry moved away from them. Almost every time I get some old black white game in that used them the pots are all wrecked and all need replacement at $20+ each.

[tx2000]

On the topic of spinners should i play spinners games with a trackball or use a real spinner.  I dont have any of those but considering one not both

[paigeoliver]

If you can only have one then you want the trackball.

[tx2000]

Ok thanks

[danny_galaga]

Holy crap! Good to see you posting Paige (",)

[lilshawn]

be aware, a cheapish pot by any manufacturer is only rated for ~3000 cycles before it starts going out of specification.

please people also note, most monitor adjustment pots are rated for 200 cycles. Quit farting around with them.

A high quality pot designed for heavy use (500k to 2m cycles that use cement and wirewound resistive wire instead of a printed resistive element.) would likely meet or even exceed the parts cost for a decent optical setup.

[kiwasabi]

Yeah the potentiometers on Pong wore out really quick. I read that it was estimated the number of cycles they were rated for would be exceeded within one week of being on location. What you want is an encoder wheel if you're to make something yourself. They sell them at places like Sparkfun or you can hack an old mouse (I believe you need an old ball mouse rather than a laser mouse).

And to whoever was asking about playing spinner games with a trackball... they really don't have the right feel at all in my experience. I would recommend getting both.Tempest with a trackball is arcade blasphemy.

[DaveMMR]

If you can only have one then you want the trackball.

A TB is definitely more versatile and the better option for those who want to cover as many games as possible.

Although there's a little gray area in there - if you're a fan of a dozen spinner games and maybe one or two trackball games, maybe a spinner may be the better option.

Also, not taken into consideration is that a spinner (at least nowadays) takes up a heck of a lot less space than a trackball. You could almost throw a TT2 spinner in as an afterthought, not so much with a trackball.

If you have to make omissions on your panel, make that "must-play" list first before planning out the panel.

[kiwasabi]

Although there's a little gray area in there - if you're a fan of a dozen spinner games and maybe one or two trackball games, maybe a spinner may be the better option.

The trackball games I always go back to are Cabal, Sylvalion (Japan only release where you play as a dragon and can spin around and stuff), Marble Madness, Centipede/Millipede, and Missile Command. I really wish the SegaSonic game would control better because obviously a lot of love went into making that game by Sega.

Spinner games may be less numerous... Tempest and Arkanoid really. The spinner was underutilized I think. Oh yeah and Blasteroids.

[Xiaou2]

Although there's a little gray area in there - if you're a fan of a dozen spinner games and maybe one or two trackball games, maybe a spinner may be the better option.

The trackball games I always go back to are Cabal, Sylvalion (Japan only release where you play as a dragon and can spin around and stuff), Marble Madness, Centipede/Millipede, and Missile Command. I really wish the SegaSonic game would control better because obviously a lot of love went into making that game by Sega.

Spinner games may be less numerous... Tempest and Arkanoid really. The spinner was underutilized I think. Oh yeah and Blasteroids.

 Lot more spinner games than that.   I like trackball games, but if I had to choose one, it would be a spinner.

 While you can control spinner games with a trackball.. it never plays well enough to enjoy... due to losses of accuracy when you have some vertical vectors in your movements.
 
 From the Wiki:


 Conventional spinner games

    Arkanoid arkanoid
    Arkanoid - Revenge of Doh arknoid2
    Blasteroids (version 4) blstroid
    Wolf Pack (prototype) wolfpack
    Tempest (rev 3) tempest
    Tron (set 1) tron
    Mad Planets mplanets
    720 Degrees (set 1) 720
    Aztarac aztarac
    Forgotten Worlds (US) forgottn
    Kozmik Kroozr kroozr
    Crater Raider crater
    Wheel Of Fortune wfortune
    Victory victory
    Omega Race omegrace
    Cameltry (US) cameltry
    Cosmic Chasm (set 1) cchasm
    Dark Planet darkplnt
    Vs. Hot Smash hotsmash
    Boxing Bugs boxingb
    Star Trek startrek

Push/pull spinner games

    Discs of Tron (Upright) dotron
    Zwackery zwackery
    Forgotten Worlds forgottn *(only push)

Horizontal roller

    Major Havoc (rev 3) mhavoc
    Moonwar moonwar
    Kick (upright) kick

Vertical roller

    Drag Race dragrace

360° Steering Wheel

    Super Sprint ssprint
    APB - All Points Bulletin (set 1) apb
    Pole Position polepos
    Pole Position II polepos2
    Road Blasters (set 1) roadblst
    American Speedway (set 1) amspdwy
    Bad Lands badlands
    Demolition Derby demoderb
    Danny Sullivan's Indy Heat indyheat
    Speed Freak speedfrk
    Ironman Stewart's Super Off-Road offroad
    Ironman Stewart's Super Off-Road Track Pack offroadt
    Turbo turbo
    Konami GT konamigt
    Buggy Challenge buggychl
    Championship Sprint csprint
    Fire Truck firetrk
    Fire Truck firetrk
    Grand Champion grchamp
    Hot Rod (turbo 3 player) hotrod
    Monte Carlo montecar
    Stocker stocker
    Super Speed Race sspeedr
    Final Lap 2 finalap2
    Subs subs
    Mille Miglia 2: Great 1000 Miles Rally (95/05/24) gtmr2
    Over Drive overdriv
    Redline Racer (2 players) redlin2p
    Sprint 1 sprint1

Horizontal paddle games

    Boot Hill boothill
    Clowns (rev. 2) clowns
    Super Breakout sbrkout
    Avalanche avalnche
    Beam Invader beaminv
    Gee Bee geebee
    Warlords warlords
    Field Goal fgoal
    Blue Shark blueshrk
    Circus circus
    Sea Wolf seawolf
    Sea Wolf II seawolf2

Vertical paddle games

    Destroyer destroyr
    Lunar Lander (rev 2) llander

 Dual Spinner Games

    Paddle Games
        Arkanoid Returns
        Off the Wall (Atari)
        Off the Wall (Bally Sente)
        Warlords (uses 4!)
        Pop'n Bounce
        Plump Pop
        VS Blok Breaker
    Flying
        Blasteroids
        Two Tigers
    Driving
        Super Off Road
        Super Sprint (uses 3!)
        Championship Super Sprint
        Bad Lands
        Ironman Ivan Stewart's Super Off-Road (uses 3!)
        Ironman Stewart's Super Off-Road Track Pack (uses 3!)
        Danny Sullivan's Indy Heat
    Other
        Atari 2 player games
        Puzzloop / Puzzloop 2
        Puzzle Bobble 2/3/4 (a.k.a. Bust a move)
        Forgotten Worlds


* Additionally, you can use a spinner to play pot based racing games like Outrun.   Some do not like the lack of centering spring... but its still able to be used well and with good accuracy regardless.  (and if one really wanted, they could make a spring solution that can attack and detach as needed)

** I believe the above list is also missing games... due to the POOR level of picture documentation of the Rear side of the control panels.   TX-1  for example, also uses a 360 degree optical wheel..  as well as two optical pedals.

*** Ill also add, that the lack of controller assembly pictures (for use in front-ends as well),  is also a real shame.  Many do not know what the controllers look like, and or even what they are.  For example, Segas Turbo uses an optical pedal that has dual optos and a sliding tab... very similar to how the 49 way joysticks work.    TX-1  has a dual pedal assembly, in which both pedal units use large diameter optical encoder wheels - the kind they used on Tron spinners...

[PL1]

** I believe the above list is also missing games.

That page certainly does need some updates -- "the TurboTwist 2 is relatively new to the spinner scene. "      

LMK if you want a wiki login or have specific corrections and/or games to add to the list.   


Scott
EDIT: Made a few changes to the wiki -- mostly alphabetizing the games within each category, correcting a few errors, and adding several more games.
Found six _long_ lists of spinner/dial games, including several of yours, Steve.
I'll try to sort through them later.

[PL1]

Finally got around to doing a fairly thorough review/re-organization of the gamelists on the wiki Spinners and Dials page.
(Still have a list of >140 games to sort through. )

LMK if there's any other games you'd like to see added or if I've mis-categorized any games.

Which games originally used a spinner

The list below is non-definitive, but can be used as a guide to find the most common games that can use a spinner.

Standard spinner games

    Arkanoid arkanoid
    Arkanoid - Revenge of Doh arknoid2
    Arkanoid Returns arkretrn
    Aztarac aztarac (spinner and trigger stick)
    Blasteroids (version 4) blstroid
    Boxing Bugs boxingb
    Cameltry (US) cameltry
    Cosmic Chasm (set 1) cchasm
    Crater Raider crater (spinner and trigger stick)
    Dark Planet darkplnt
    Ghox (spinner) ghox
    Goindol (world) goindol
    Mad Planets mplanets (spinner and trigger stick)
    Puzz Loop puzzloop
    Puzz Loop 2 pzloop2
    Star Trek startrek
    Tac/Scan tacscan
    Tempest (rev 3) tempest
    Tempest Tubes temptube
    Tron tron (spinner and trigger stick)
    Victory victory
    Vs. Hot Smash hotsmash
    Wheel Of Fortune wfortune
    Wolf Pack (prototype) wolfpack

Push/pull spinner games

    Discs of Tron (Upright) dotron (push/pull spinner and trigger stick)
    Forgotten Worlds forgottn (push spinner and joystick)
    Kozmik Kroozr kroozr (push spinner and trigger stick)
    Zwackery zwackery (push/pull spinner and trigger stick)

Roller (single axis trackball)

    Kick (upright) kick
    Kickman (upright) kickman
    Major Havoc (rev 3) mhavoc
    Moonwar moonwar

360° Steering Wheel

    American Speedway (set 1) amspdwy
    APB - All Points Bulletin (set 1) apb
    Bad Lands badlands
    Buggy Challenge buggychl
    Championship Sprint csprint
    Danny Sullivan's Indy Heat indyheat
    Demolition Derby demoderb
    Drag Race dragrace
    Final Lap 2 finalap2
    Fire Truck firetrk
    Grand Champion grchamp
    Hot Rod (turbo 3 player) hotrod
    Ironman Ivan Stewart's Super Off-Road offroad
    Ironman Ivan Stewart's Super Off-Road Track-Pak offroadt
    Konami GT konamigt
    Mille Miglia 2: Great 1000 Miles Rally (95/05/24) gtmr2
    Monte Carlo montecar
    Off the Wall (Atari) offtwall (3 player)
    Off the Wall (Sente) otwalls (2 player)
    Over Drive overdriv
    Pole Position polepos
    Pole Position II polepos2
    Redline Racer (2 players) redlin2p
    Road Blasters (set 1) roadblst
    Speed Freak speedfrk
    Sprint 1 sprint1
    Stocker stocker
    Subs subs
    Super Speed Race sspeedr
    Super Speed Race Junior ssrj
    Super Sprint ssprint
    Turbo turbo

Paddle games

    Avalanche avalnche
    Beam Invader beaminv
    Circus circus
    Clowns (rev. 2) clowns
    Cutie Q cutieq
    Field Goal fgoal
    Gee Bee geebee
    Super Breakout sbrkout
    Warlords warlords (4 player)

Non-standard spinner and paddle game controllers

    720 Degrees (set 1) 720 (Optical 720 spinner/joy hybrid)
    Blue Shark blueshrk (Positional gun)
    Boot Hill boothill (Y-axis-only analog joystick used for aiming your gun)
    Destroyer destroyr (Y-axis control lever)
    Fire One fireone (Two periscope-handled player controls with thumb buttons)
    Lunar Lander (rev 2) llander (Spring-loaded thruster handle)
    Omega Race omegrace (Free-turning potentiometer with a built-in encoder that converts analog to 6-bit gray code)
    Sea Wolf seawolf (Periscope)
    Sea Wolf II seawolf2 (Two periscopes)
    Up Scope upscope (Periscope)

Other game lists:

Mechanical Rotary Joystick Games

Optical Rotary Joystick Games

Analog Joystick and Yoke Games

Scott

[Nephasth]

You missed free kick, tournament arkanoid, and gigas.

[PL1]

You missed free kick, tournament arkanoid, and gigas.

They're on that 140+ list.

Are Free Kick and Gigas spinner or potentiometer games?


Scott

[Nephasth]

They're spinner games. I've got the boards for 'em and use an Arkanoid spinner.

[PL1]

Thanks, Neph -- all three added.   

Anyone have any opinions/suggestions about adding either a "270° steering wheel (potentiometer) games" or "Steering wheel (potentiometer) games" category after "Paddle (potentiometer) games"?

Here are the rest of the titles from other spinner game list threads that haven't been confirmed or categorized as one of the following:
 -- Standard spinner games
 -- Push/pull spinner games
 -- Roller (single axis trackball) games
 -- 360° steering wheel (optical) games
 -- Paddle (potentiometer) games
 -- Steering wheel (potentiometer) games (?)
 -- Non-standard spinner and paddle game controllers

Atari Mini Golf
Beatmania (all)
BLOCK BLOCK
BUGGY BOY (360 wheel, shifter, and pedals?)
Car Polo
CASCADE
Cerberus
CISCO HEAT
CITY BOMBER
CONTENENTAL CIRCUS
CRAZY CLOWNS
Cyvern
D-DAY
DATSUN 280 ZZZAP
DEAD EYE
DIRT FOX
Double Axle
Double Cheese
DRIFT OUT
DRIVERS EDGE
Embargo
ENDURO RACER
F-1 GRAND PRIX STAR II
F1 EXAUST NOTE
Fighting Soccer
FINAL LAP 3
FINAL LAP R
FOUR TRAX
Gals Panic 4 (?)
Gals Panic S - Extra Edition (?)
Gals Panic S2 (?)
GP RIDER
GRAND PRIX STAR
GRUDGE MATCH
Guts'n (verify if spinner or joysticks)
Hiphopmania Complete Mix
Hiphopmania Complete Mix 2
HYPER CHASE
IMOLA GRAND PRIX
Ixion
Jan Jan Paradise
Jan Jan Paradise 2
Kaiser Knuckle
LAGUNA RACER
LIMITED EDITION HANG-ON
M-79 Ambush
Mahjong Dial Q2 (Japan)
MAX RPM
Night Driver
OUTRUNNERS
Pachinko Sexy Reaction
Pachinko Sexy Reaction 2
Panic Street
Plump Pop
POCKET RACER
Pop 'n Bounce / Gapporin
Prebillian
PUCHI CARAT
RACING HERO
RAD MOBILE
RAD RALLY
RADICAL BIKERS
RAVE RACER
Razzmatazz
ROUGH RACER
ROUND UP 5 - SUPER DELTA FORCE
San Francisco Rush
SARU-KANI-HAMU-ZOU
Sengeki Striker
Sen-Know
SIDE BY SIDE
SIDE BYT SIDE 2
SLIP STREAM
SPACE WALK
SPECIAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION
SPEED RACER
SPEED UP
SPRINT 2
SPRINT 4
SPRINT 8
SPY HUNTER
SPY HUNTER 2
SQUASH
STADIUM CROSS
STRAIGHT FLUSH
STREET HEAT
SUPER BUG
SUPER CHASE - CRIMINAL TERMINATION
SUPER FREE KICK
SUPER HANGON
SUPER MONACO GP
Super Off Road
Suzuka 8 Hours
Suzuka 8 Hours 2
TEETER TORTURE
Tel Jan
TOP SECRET
TOP SPEED
TOURNAMENT TABLE
TURBO OUTRUN
TWIN SQUASH
Two Tigers
TX-1
VIRTUA RACING
Vs Block Breaker
Vs Mahjong Otome Ryouran
Wall Crash
WEC LE MANS 24
WHEELS RUNNER
WINDING HEAT
WINK
WIZ WARZ
WORLD RALLY
Zektor

Scott
EDIT:  List updated as games are confirmed, categorized, and added to wiki.

[Nephasth]

Gigas Mark II, Homo (Goindol clone), Quester, and Riddle of Pythagoras are also spinner games.

Pretty sure Bomb Bee and Razzmatazz are too.

[PL1]

Gigas Mark II, Homo (Goindol clone), Quester, and Riddle of Pythagoras are also spinner games.

Thanks again, Neph -- all four added.   

Pretty sure Bomb Bee and Razzmatazz are too.

Haven't found manuals for them yet.   


Scott

[michelevit]

Just get the one that groovy game gear.com sells. Worth every penny. Fits in a standard 1 1/8 inch hole. USB. Spins smooth. works perfectly.