Force Feedback Questions

[Paul Olson]

I have a Cart Fury CP that I plan on using whole on my MAME cab. I want to start wiring it up soon, but I still have a couple of questions that I haven't found the answers to. I have read that people are using Immersion PCBs, or hacking a logitech controller. What are the other options? I am using a U-HID, so I have everything covered but the force feedback. I have a 24v power supply for it. It seems like I could just use the pwm output on an arduino or something, but I would think I would have already seen that on here if it was that easy. I don't know how long it would take to find an Immersion board, so I am thinking that is out of the running. I would prefer to keep using the U-HID so I don't have to swap the pots. I am using the pedals with other steering wheels, so I want to keep those wired as they are as well.

Anyway, I still have to get MAMEhooker installed and figure that out, but I would like to get the ffb figured out to. To save time, I would just buy the Immersion board if I could find one, but I have never seen one on ebay in the short time I have been looking. Please share any suggestions you may have. I will try to get MAMEhooker going tomorrow. The solution might be more apparent once I actually see the outputs.

[BadMouth]

The Immersion board only works with Happ ffb wheels.

The Logitech hacks are used with a Happ ffb wheel and servo amplifier OR a Sega Model1/2 ffb setup and Aganyte's custom interface:http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=fr&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.gamoover.net/tuto/l2m2-interfacer-un-ffb-et-volant-sega-model-12-avec-un-pc-ou-une-playstation-23
It does not work with model3 or Naomi ffb systems.

Kart Fury is a Sega Naomi game.
I do not know of any way to interface a Sega Naomi setup.
If you find one, I'd be interested as I have an Initial D cp gathering dust.

For true ffb, I don't think keeping the U-HID is an option.
It could work in conjunction with MAMEHooker to trigger vibration motors, but that's about it.

Someone did indeed create an interface from a cheap development board running custom software, but I haven't heard anything about it in years.  They were using the Happ setup, IIRC.  I'll see if I can find the link.

Out of all the options, people that have a Sega Model 2 cp with Aganyte's interface seem happiest.

[BadMouth]

Here's links to the development board interface that I mentioned. (the dev is using a happ setup)
Browsing the comments, it sounds like the source is available for download somewhere.
I haven't heard anything new about this in years.

http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/my-homemade-ffb-controller.37051/

http://www.racingfr.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=40779

[Paul Olson]

Cart Fury is from Midway, and it uses the happ 270 wheel. At least it looks identical to Hydro Thunder and Cruis'n.

It seems like the best option is the immersion board. How likely is it to find one? If it really is too hard to find, which logitech wheel is the best to steal the board from? I have seen a few mentioned, but I really have no experience with them.

Is it still true that MAME doesn't support ffb? If so, the ffb support in the logitech and immersion boards are just for other emulators and PC games, correct? I am only thinking of MAME at the moment, but I will probably try to expand that once I see what is actually playable in MAME.

I think building my own interface is probably more of a project than I want to start right now, and I really don't know enough (anything) about ffb to try to implement that.

Badmouth, you have probably been researching this as much or more than anyone. What board would you recommend for this control panel. I want it to work well. Easy is good, but working well is more important. I can have pcbs made if I need to, and soldering and adding components aren't a problem.

[BadMouth]

Sorry, I had it confused with Club Kart; should have looked it up before commenting.

The Immersion board is plug and play.  The only downside is that the older ones that are easier to find only have 2 axis.

The Logitech hack offers the most flexibility, but only a few of those who went the servo amp route were happy with it.
Aganyte also has a custom PCB for the happ setup (still requires Logitech pcb).  He experienced none of the issues that were present with the servo amp hack.  There is a link to it in the driving cab info thread.

[Paul Olson]

I use my pedals with a few different controllers, so I would like to keep them on the U-HID. The Immersion board will only be available to the system when this Cart Fury panel is mounted. What issues am I likely to run into doing this. I have xpadder, so I am hoping I can remap there to avoid any issues. Are there any ffb effects that require the pedals to be connected to the same encoder?

I just got the Immersion board in yesterday, and I need to find some connectors before I can hook it up, so I am still stuck in the planning stage and curious. lol

[BadMouth]

I use my pedals with a few different controllers, so I would like to keep them on the U-HID. The Immersion board will only be available to the system when this Cart Fury panel is mounted. What issues am I likely to run into doing this. I have xpadder, so I am hoping I can remap there to avoid any issues. Are there any ffb effects that require the pedals to be connected to the same encoder?

I just got the Immersion board in yesterday, and I need to find some connectors before I can hook it up, so I am still stuck in the planning stage and curious. lol

There won't be any problems in MAME. 
IIRC, there won't be any in Supermodel.

Model 2 emulator can give you issues when mapping analog controls with multiple controllers plugged in.
There is a thread either here or in the software forum with the procedure that works.  I can't seem to find it at the moment.
IIRC, the solution was mapping each controller separately with no other controllers plugged in.  After that, plug them all in and they'll work.
I didn't have any problems mapping my separate shifter.  I think the problem was limited to trying to map analog controls to more than one controller or having 3 or more controllers.

Demul requires that the pedals show up combined as a single axis, but you might be able to work around that one.

Those are your main arcade emulators.  Past that, any PC game that doesn't give you the option of using separate controllers for pedal or shifter will be an issue.  Most newer ones allow for this.  A lot of PC games, especially older ones prefer the pedals show up as one axis. 

I'm not sure about Dolphin, as I've only messed around with it a bit and that was a year ago.
I don't remember having any issue mapping my shifter that shows up as a separate controller.

Things would be a lot simpler if the pedals showed up on the same controller as the steering wheel.
Having to wire up the pots in series to work with the single axis on the immersion board make things that much more complicated though.
....They do make double pots for stereo applications...hmm....

[BadMouth]

Any progress?

[Paul Olson]

No, I have been busy at work and buying and selling games and pins. Just picked up a Metallica pin, so I am really unmotivated to work right now. I still have the boards sitting on my desk taunting me though, so hopefully I will get to it soon. I also keep forgetting to order some connectors so I can make harnesses.

[Paul Olson]

Ok, I might end up changing my approach to this. I just bought a Need For Speed Underground, so I may just use that for all of the force feedback games. It has the single board version of the immersion board in it.

Still need to find a spot for it, and attach the seat, but here is the first pic when I got it home. I need to contact Global VR and find out if I can run this game on a better computer as long as I have the dongle. It would be nice to be able to switch back to this game once in a while.

[Paul Olson]

I got the game set up. I may try to convert this to mame sooner than later. I see the game getting old fairly quickly.

[Paul Olson]

double post

[mustang]

Hello Paul
I too have the same NFS cabinets 2 of.
I have no pc units though, the cabinets still have their FFB pcbs in which is handy.

Do you think these would work ok If I convert them to Mame?
Would I be able to use the same pedals and wheels?

I do have 2 others that I converted to use 2 xbox 360s running PGR3 linked together.
They both work fine but no FFB and just fancy something different.
Gets boring sometimes playing the same game.

Thanks
Martin

[Paul Olson]

Hello Paul
I too have the same NFS cabinets 2 of.
I have no pc units though, the cabinets still have their FFB pcbs in which is handy.

Do you think these would work ok If I convert them to Mame?
Would I be able to use the same pedals and wheels?

I do have 2 others that I converted to use 2 xbox 360s running PGR3 linked together.
They both work fine but no FFB and just fancy something different.
Gets boring sometimes playing the same game.

Thanks
Martin

I haven't had a chance to try it yet - too busy with work and pinball. The Force Feedback board should work fine because there are drivers available in windows. It uses another IO board, but I don't know if there are drivers available for that one. It looks like everything in the cabinet plugs in to USB ports, so as long as there are drivers available, it should work. The secondary IO board may be a generic HID, but I just don't know. I am hoping to clear up some time in the next couple of months to look into this.

Paul