What would you guys want in a Racing Cab FE?

[Brian74]

Ok just a update on the status. 

I discovered that image streaming (which is required for both png set animations and grabbing frames from a video animations) was only hooked up for the list textures.  My bad... I originally wrote pac-fe a few years back. 

Anyway I need to fix that.  I fixed the snap element... that took a decent chunk of time, but I hadn't touched that part of the code in a few years so what do you expect?  Thankfully now that snap is working I can just copy the code and make it work for the other elements. 

I also need to add the video element and maybe another element for people that want more complex skins.  Honestly though, this is a racing FE.  It's purposefully built simple due to the style of controls and the limited amount of games. 

So I'm thinking this weekend for a release?

Awesome!! 

[Nuexzz]

I always thought that the replacement of video for animated gif could reduce the burden of the frontends 

[vandale]

I always thought that the replacement of video for animated gif could reduce the burden of the frontends 

I second that. Even though they are highly compressed it seems the decompression has its toll on the CPU etc. What I dislike about the vids available for hyperspin is that the person who authored the vid didn't take actually try to play properly and it just looks naff with a car kitting the walls etc. From memory a few model 2 games look this way.

5 seconds of looping GIF would be fine I would think or something more advanced like h264?

[Howard_Casto]

You'd be surprised.  Remember gif is a very very old format.  Even though it's tiny, processing wise it's the equivalent of using pcm for audio... very archaic. 

Any paletted  image format has to be decoded, which isn't a huge deal, but considering animated gif's can and often do have a separate, unique palette for each frame of animation.  Yeah it gets a bit hairy in terms of speed.  Not only that, but remember that gif is a closed, licensed format.  Because of this, just as an example, directx doesn't support gif.  Yes there are ways around that... you can load a gif into directx, but it requires you to load an image vid an external library and convert it to dds.  So again speed issues.  Remember the gifs you see on the web are maybe 10-15 fps and have maybe 100 frames of animation if it's an especially long one. 

All of that being said, yes, with a lot of effort, you can get gifs to work.  The thing is, you still have to render them manually... so essentially what you are doing is loading the whole animation into memory, splitting them into individual images, and swapping out the textures one at a time. 

So I could do that...  Or I could just make a mng via the -writemng option in mame, and then run the command-line advmng utility to split it out into pngs compressing them as they are made.  The file size, believe it or not, it comparable to an animated gif of the same framerate and because it's a png it's natively supported by direct x and open gl and loads quite quickly I might add.  And yes that's a few steps, but honestly it's still simpler than recording an avi and converting to gif. 

h264, btw, is mp4... it's just a compression name while mp4 is the file extension.  The problem with those video formats, again, has a lot to do with native support.  In terms of playing a video in a picture box with no layering or blending (aka it's on top and nothing can cover it) direct show and similar engines do a fine job with any format windows media player supports.  In terms of grabbing frames that can be written to file or put into a texture, direct show only supports basic video formats.  By that I mean formats hard-coded into the library.  That's avi, mpeg and some versions of mpeg2 (dvd) and that's basically it.  Any extended formats, aka videos loaded via a codec can't automatically pull frames.  Again with a lot of work it is possible to support mp4 and other codecs, but why bother?  For most games it's 240p video at 30 fps.... so why not just use mpeg?

[Howard_Casto]

Btw in regards to the content of the videos. 

That's why you do NOT record actual gameplay and instead record the attract mode.  There's a reason back in the day )p(, myself and the 3darcade guys recorded attract modes.  Namely we didn't have to play the games, which is great because obviously some of us sucked at certain genres and it would have either took 10x longer to record them or they would have turned out dodgy like the HS vids. 

I've yet to see a game that doesn't have some actual gameplay in their attract mode loop.  If you don't like the whole loop that's fine... trim it to just use the gameplay section.  At least with the attract mode you'll get a proper loop and/or transition so the video won't look ridiculous when it loops. 

[BadMouth]

I want sound in my previews, so animated GIFs won't cut it.
I don't like using videos of the attract modes.  I don't want to have to sit through a title screen or high scores to see the gameplay.
What I would like is a hand selected portion of gameplay that captures the essence of the game. 

Like most things I accept that to get exactly what I want (or some approximation of it), I will have to make it myself.

[twistedsymphony]

I want sound in my previews, so animated GIFs won't cut it.
I don't like using videos of the attract modes.  I don't want to have to sit through a title screen or high scores to see the gameplay.
What I would like is a hand selected portion of gameplay that captures the essence of the game. 

Like most things I accept that to get exactly what I want (or some approximation of it), I will have to make it myself.

agree 100% with everything here

[Howard_Casto]

If you don't like the whole loop that's fine... trim it to just use the gameplay section.  At least with the attract mode you'll get a proper loop and/or transition so the video won't look ridiculous when it loops.

[twistedsymphony]

^that's not bad... but I personally don't like using the same clips as what's in attract mode. I'm not entirely sure why it bothers me but when the game is in attract mode and I quit to the front end and the front end is playing the same clip that was just in attract mode it irks me to the point where I've started replacing clips so there different 

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah you guys are weird.  It's meant to give the fe a bit of animation and give you an idea of the game selected.  You shouldn't be staring at it for more than a few seconds. 

So I hooked up the video streaming stuff properly.  I went ahead and recorded some video of the abcop attract loop using mame's "-writeavi" option.  It streams beautifully, even with a special "fullscreen" skin I made to test it with.  That being said, the 1:30 attract loop takes up 1.5 GIGS.  Yikes!  That's worse than the png sequences.  So it'd have to be compressed to something more manageable.  Like I said mp4 is a bad idea... at least if you want to use the vids in a non-flash front-end (aka not hyperspin).  So I'm thinking mpeg.  With decent compression a 10 minute video should be around 60mb... which is still frikkin huge, but manageable. 

So to recap, you have three video options: 
1.  PNG sequences made via mame's -writemng option and then split into pngs - Supports layering and blending, no audio.
2.  AVI or MPEG texture pulling - Supports layering and blending WITH audio.
3.  MP4 or exotic vids in "old school" mode.  - doesn't support layering or blending. 

So I've got to do some minor cleanup and bug fixes but unless I run into real world stuff I'll release it sunday or something. 

[Howard_Casto]

Ok so I ran some tests in terms of compression. 

While the only file containers you can use are avi or mpeg, the actual compression, well you have a few options. 

Mpeg1 works fine saved as a mpeg or you can custom compress an avi using mpeg1, wmv1 or xvid codecs.  All seem to work the same and all reduced my video form 1.5 gigs down to ~22mb. 

So I think it would simply be a matter of choosing which codec you prefer visually.  I will say this... the uncompressed avi looks fantastic, but you do start to see artifacts on any of the compressions, even mp4 and h2x64.  So yeah in terms of size vs quality, sequential pngs win yet again. 

Maybe somebody wants to play with it?  I figured we better use an easy to use, freeware converter so I downloaded any video converter.  Aside from it asking you to purchase after every conversion, it works pretty well. 

[Howard_Casto]

Ok so I tweaked the input functions a little.  ATM all inputs, even analog ones, are treated as digital.  I did have the x axis scrolling the list via an analog amount, but quite honestly it scrolls so fast that you couldn't tell any difference. 

I need to add (optional) support for the x axis on a mouse.  That should be simple enough. 

Other than that I think the basic functionality stuff is done. 

[Nuexzz]

I would love to be a tester for you Racing Cab FE

[Howard_Casto]

Eh I'm going to release it tonight. 

I wouldn't call it 100% complete, but it works so I'll release it hoping people can get started on skins, videos, ect....

[Howard_Casto]

Ok so I'm working on making the remaining snaps. 

Like I said, no text in my FE so it's kind of important that every game gets an image.  I just did all the model 2 games and the supermodel games that were playable.  (On BM's list Dirt Devils is on there, but it's not really playable). 

I'll do demul after "my stories" and then hopefully this thing is out the door. 

[Howard_Casto]

Eh I ran out of steam.  This is going to have to wait until tomorrow.  Wait.. it is tomorrow... damn....  well later anyway. 

[Howard_Casto]

I've decided to take just a little bit more time on this.  I realized that the config files for the input settings weren't all that great, so I'm re-doing them.  So it might be a day or so.  This won't be one of those endless projects with no release in sight though (cough cough outrun fxt, cough cough).

There's just no point in releasing something I'll have to fix and release again in a couple of days. 

[Howard_Casto]

What a difference a day or two makes.  I didn't like the idea of lifting a skin which was already lifted from Daytona USA, so I remade it, giving it a bit of my own flair.  It's still not done (I want to make a couple more animated icons to show what the VR buttons do) but I'm no longer ashamed to release it. 

I still need to aquire some snaps for demul games unfortunately and the list manager is non-existant. Note I didn't say list generator because I'm including a Gamelist with Bad Mouth's master list.  I'm also including emulator config files for each emulator mentioned in the master list.  You'll just have to change the path and that's about it. 

I'm trying to make this one fairly turn-key, which I normally wouldn't do, but racing cabs are such a pain in the butt to setup, so maybe it'll help a little. 

I don't feel up to working on it tonight, so unfortunately it might be this weekend, but fall is coming so I'm bound and determined to get this out before September hits and get 2k6 out before September ends.  I want a racing cab to keep me busy during the cold winter months. 

*edit*  Oops!  Forgot to post the vid.

[BadMouth]

 

I'm liking it.  I want different wording than "course select", but I'm sure it's just a matter of creating a new background image.

Will it be possible for the end user to move the location of the game logos?
(thinking I might want them a little higher, especially if they can't be on top of full video)

I put in for a few vacation days after labor day.
Maybe I can crank out some video previews then.

[Howard_Casto]

Actually the "select a course" is a logo image.  Because you can use different images for each skin I used a separate image for the header so you could use custom titles. 

Even though, like you, I prefer all my games in one big old list, just so people would have an example I also made lists for each emulator, a logo for each emulator and a tinted background image for each one. 

Everything is skinnable yes, but in that preview image the abcop video is actually avi with divx compression, thus the sound towards the end.  I'm streaming it via some very hackish methods, but it works.  So long as your pc isn't ancient I don't think it should be an issue. 

Mpeg compression, and any kind of avi compression streams just fine.  Simply avoid mp4 and mpeg2.

Anyway, my head is killing me.  I've got an appointment with the oral surgeon in the morning.  When did my head start bothering me?  Spring?  So I'll be out for a while. 

[Howard_Casto]

Eh my wisdom teeth still aren't out (scheduled for sept 30th) and where it has been raining my head is going nuts.  It's been a bit better today where it was warm though.  I've been working on this in bits as I'm able.  I smoothed out the transitions between gamelists, and made a list manager that isn't perfect, but should work ok for an initial release. 

I still need to make snaps but honestly it's just for demul and I might leave that to you guys.  Expect a release tomorrow night one way or another. 

Then I really need to make a footer for my posts...it's been broke for a month now and I lost the original gif (time to make a new one anyway.... a "dragon king" footer means very little when my current projects are stuff like mamehooker troubleshooter 2 and game hacks. )

[Howard_Casto]

Ok so I've decided to skip the demul snaps.  You guys can do them because demul doesn't provide a snap feature and I don't have the proper roms for a few of the Naomi games apparently.  Once someone posts the snap/titles for those games I'll add them to the next build. 

True Blood season finale comes on tonight and I forgot about it (yeah I know, shut up, I like it ok?), so it'll be a late night release, but I am releasing the thing.  It's done for all intensive purposes and I need to release it.  The only things I didn't get to add are the "shift to hi to continue" loading screens we talked about and I'll do that next version.  The gamelist manager could be improved upon as well, but for me to do that I'll have to add some xml parsing support. 

Then it's back to Outrun.  >

[Howard_Casto]

I'm currently preparing my site and the initial package for upload.  I haven't done a brand new app in a while so it's taking longer than I thought... stay tuned. 

[POOTERMAN]

How's it looking Howard, I'm really looking forward to trying out your FE so if you could us know when the ETA I'd really appreciate it.

Also HUGE thanks for making this FE, I don't own a cab myself I just love the arcade racing games I grew up playing in the 80's and want a FE that let's me sit at my PC and select them rather than having to wade through MAME to find them. Am I in the minority in that respect, I assume probably so?

I just spent 4 days solid making artwork for the FE software I recently stumbled upon called 'Attract-Mode' as I had over 100 marquee images missing for all the games I have. FE management is pretty exhausting stuff eh guys!!

Can I take this opportunity to ask you guys if you could recommend a FE for general use for all arcade games, that's both easy to set up but beautiful to look at? I'm about to have a look at Hyperspin, I just want something that can utilise in-game video & sound and logo artwork etc.

Are there any FE's out there that can be used to display all your games on a single page and scroll up and down through a list rather than having them separated by the type of game they are or the emulator that's being used to run them? Would welcome any advice please guys

[Howard_Casto]

Most likely tonight.  I was going to release yesterday... got the site ready and stuff, but I ran out of steam doing piddly stuff like writing the readme and what not. 

Also I finally did some testing on an actual wheel (mine is currently bolted to my cab) and I think I need to make the deadzone adjustable, which is easy enough. 

[POOTERMAN]

Please post on here when it's out please Howard.

When you say 'tonight' please remember that for some of us it's just gone 2am here in the UK and refreshing the page to see if the link is up yet is starting to hurt my finger!

Can you tell I'm keen to try it out!

Can't wait

[Howard_Casto]

Well since my racing cab pc still isn't installed yet and it's right next to my dev pc, I thought I would take the opportunity to go ahead and test before I do the release. 

I ran into some issues, mostly really minor stuff.  A few things are as simply fixed as a note in the readme.txt (the list manager needs to be ran as admin the first time to install a ocx, the k-lite codec pack is required for some video formats ect) and others are very minor bugs.  (The intro vid is playing strangely on 4:3 monitors, a minor error or two). 

So yeah, one more day. 

Look on the bright side though, I am working on it so it will get done. 

[POOTERMAN]

Appreciate you want to iron out as many bugs as possible Howard. All your hard work is appreciated by the community, you know that

[Nuexzz]

Howard_Casto fantastic  keep up the good work !!

[Howard_Casto]

I sorta hate the K-lite pack, is the CCCP pack a serviceable substitute?

Yeah any pack in theory at least should work.  Direct-show = windows media player, so if you can get it to work in wmp then it'll work in the FE.