Noob needs advise

[shwnicus]

Greetings all,

I am in the planning stages of my first MAME stand up.  I'm fairly experienced with woodworking, so I'm already planned and ready for the cabinet.  I've also already set up my fairly modern computer (i.e. no PS2, all USB) to run MAME and have a decent library up and running.

But I have probably reset my plans for the controls a dozen times already.  So I figure its time to get some experienced opinions.

What I'd like to have is 4 players and a trackball.  I may add a spinner later, but I thought I'd see how well the t-ball does for the few spinner games I'd load.

for reference, the games I'm most likely to load:
Golden Tee
World Class Bowling
Gauntlet
TMNT
Defender / Stargate
Joust
Tempest
Tron
Metal Slug
Rampage
Galaga / Galaxian
1941 (etc)
Xmen
Missile Command
Track and Field

I was all set to go the xgaming tankstick direction just to get my feet wet, but I can build it cheaper with better components.  At least that's what I've read.  I've priced parts out at GGG and Ultimarc so many times, their server probably has me flagged with "buy something, already!" cookies.

So enough lead in, to my needed advise:

My system is USB only.  I have plenty of port available, but had read about problems from having to many devices all acting like keyboards.  Given this, is it best to build with as few USB connections as possible?  I'm already going to have a minimum of 2 with the trackball and encoder, but I'm also trying to plan for the future.  At one point, I was near 100% sold on just setting up for 2 players and adding 2 more later if it looked like the 3+ was ever going to actually be used but a) that changes the real estate on the deck and b) would require a second keyboard encoder.  Is it fine to have 2 keyboard encoders or is it better to bite the bullet for 1 that controls 4 (like an IPAC4)

And I realize I'm opening a can of worms here, but goldleaf or microswitch (or try both) buttons?  I've read enough of this argument to know its preference, but I'm new to this and I really can't say what would be best.  Has anyone tried to make a bank of each and just programming MAME differently per title?

And finally, how many buttons do you REALLY need per player.  The xgaming setup seems.... excessive.  I seriously doubt I've ever put a console in here BTW

My last plan was either a Happ refurbished t-ball or the x-gaming trackball only (hard to argue with included buttons and lifetime warranty), IPAC4 and e-sticks from Ultimarc, and the spinner from GGG (notice how I'm spreading the love here?  )  thoughts?

thanks much!

[Benzinbruder]

Hi,

Head over here for a comparison between leaf-switch and microswitch joysticks:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,132361.msg1359716.html#msg1359716

This should give you a start on what to expect.

As far as the number of buttons is concerned, word seems to be that "fewer is better".
I have opted for a seven button layout plus several admin buttons, but looking at the games you mentioned you might very well be ok with just four player buttons.

[shwnicus]

thanks!

I had made a mistake though one the leaf vs micro question.  I am thinking of that at the button level.  Still great thread on the joysticks, I really hadn't thought of that.

So far I'd agree, 4 seems like enough, though I guess 2 per player are needed for admin as well.  Does anyone recommend another way?  the "shazzam" function from GGG or "shift" from Ultimarc seem to have possibilities for condensing admin buttons to a minimum.
 

[PL1]

You don't need many buttons to cover the common admin functions:
* Coin (one per player)
* Start (one per player)
* Exit
* Pause - Optional
* Select (Enter) - Probably not needed, depending on how your FE and emulators are configured
* Menu (Tab) - Avoid having this anywhere on your panel and encoder map if you have kids or drunk/clueless friends. 

Take the time to configure the encoder, FE, and emulators to suit your preferences and needs before you choose which admin buttons to include/exclude on your CP and drill the holes.

Some people like shifted functions, but I'm not a big fan of them on a multi-player setup.  YMMV.

Keep a wireless keyboard nearby or behind the coin door in case you need to reconfigure settings -- hardly ever needed after you've configured+played the game once.


Scott

[happyfunball]

I prefer leaf switches all around, and I went with multiple swappable control panels.

[shwnicus]

Thank you very much for the replies.  I'll admit, I hadn't thought about all of those possible admin needs, just coin and start per player.  I like the advise to hold on those until later.  I can always use a stashed keyboard until I get a feel for actual need.

I guess the main point I'm stuck on is the encoder boards, their needs, and possible interactions between them.  Since I'm stuck with USB only, I'm worried about simultaneous key-press issues.  Hell, I see this just playing around in MAME with my plain old keyboard now, and I'm not really doing anything.  When it comes to boards, so far I see mostly three options for USB: xgaming's 2 player keyboard based interface, GGG's gamepad based interace, and Ultimarc's IPACs (keyboard).

The IPAC4 appears to be the only way to get full 4 player support in one board.  Is this and advantage over 2 IPAC2s?  I've read quite a few threads about button clashes over USB keyboard interfaces, will having multiples hooked up make it worse?

In theory, the gamepad interfaces would circumvent some of these issues, but would seem to be more difficult to configure in MAME.

Any advise and experience with these boards for 4 player controls?

I admit, my first inclination is to follow the KISS programming moto: Keep It Simple, Stupid.  Which frankly, would be by starting with a 2 player setup to keep the cost down, and add more later.  Which is really why I keep cycling back to the efficiency of 1x 4 player interface VS 2x 2 player interfaces.

thanks much!

[PL1]

If you know you're going to eventually do a 4-player panel, you might as well do all the drilling/finishing/mounting hardware for the panel so you don't waste time removing wires/controls or trying to keep the P1/P2 controls clean/undamaged while drilling/finishing the P3 and P4 part of the panel.

Also if you top-mount your sticks, mount the P3 and P4 sticks at the same time as P1 and P2 -- under-mounted sticks can easily be added later.

If you decide to do the keyboard-style encoder route for a 4P panel, be sure to "de-conflict" the P2 Button 5-8 inputs mentioned here (there may be others, too) before you start configuring individual MAME games.


Scott

[yotsuya]

Of the 15 must haves you listed there, only 4 of them use more than two controls, 3 of them use a trackball, and 2 require a spinner. Just something to consider as you plan your cab.

[Slippyblade]

I guess the main point I'm stuck on is the encoder boards, their needs, and possible interactions between them.  Since I'm stuck with USB only, I'm worried about simultaneous key-press issues.  Hell, I see this just playing around in MAME with my plain old keyboard now, and I'm not really doing anything.  When it comes to boards, so far I see mostly three options for USB: xgaming's 2 player keyboard based interface, GGG's gamepad based interace, and Ultimarc's IPACs (keyboard).

I may be wrong on this, but I don't think I am...  I think you might be either mis-reading or over-reading information.  The simultaneous key-press issues do NOT apply to the encoders like the IPAC or the KeyWiz.  It's an issue that is a specific to matrixed keyboards, NOT the USB connection itself.  The encoders sold for our hobby are not matrixed and do not suffer from MOST of the problems you've read about.

As far as configuring in MAME, there is no such thing as difficult.  Whether you are using keyboard encoders or gamepad encoders.  It's a matter of finding "P1 Joystick Up" hitting ENTER then tapping the control you wanna use.  MAME doesn't care what the control is, whatever control you just tapped is what is mapped.  It's so simple it borders on stupid.

[PL1]

Matrix encoders like keyboard hacks can result in "ghosting" or "blocking" which are different from the 6-key limit.

The 6-key limit (ctrl, alt, and shift don't count toward the limit) applies to USB keyboards running in "boot protocol" mode.

This includes almost all normal keyboards. (and the X-Arcade encoder when connected via USB)

The IPac and KADE don't have the limit.

PS/2 devices (like KeyWiz) and gamepads don't have the limit.


Scott