CRTEmuDriver for Windows 7 test results

[bulbousbeard]

I had a mostly successful experience with the Windows 7 CRTEmuDriver.

Here was my setup:

* Windows 7 x64 Ultimate
* 4550 HD video card (primary port was DVI so I used a DVI --> VGA adapter)
* JPAC
* 15khz standard arcade monitor
* UME64 binary that Calamity posted.

Here's the main problem: after I exit MAME, the Windows desktop stays at the resolution that the game was running at. Other than that, following Calamity's excellent instructions, everything seemed to work fine.

[Calamity]

Hi bulbousbeard,

Thanks for the feedback. Just in case it could help with your issue, please try this version of GroovyUME that contains the latest patches for W7 that are not yet in the official build:

http://www.aburamushi.net/calamity/groovyume64_0153.015a.7z

I built that one specifically for the AVGA 3000 users (sean_skroht & Sledge), but I'm wondering if the issue you're seeing could be related.

[bulbousbeard]

Hi bulbousbeard,

Thanks for the feedback. Just in case it could help with your issue, please try this version of GroovyUME that contains the latest patches for W7 that are not yet in the official build:

http://www.aburamushi.net/calamity/groovyume64_0153.015a.7z

I built that one specifically for the AVGA 3000 users (sean_skroht & Sledge), but I'm wondering if the issue you're seeing could be related.

Hi Calamity,

That is the UME build I was using. Maybe that's the problem. Should I try another build?

Thanks!

[Calamity]

Even if the version number is the same it's a different build, I hadn't made that link public so you couldn't have been using that build unless someone passed you the link

[bulbousbeard]

Calamity,

Good news. I found out what was going on.

So, if you don't have a multisync monitor (standard res only), you have to do that monitor swap.

When you swap monitors, you have to select 640x480 30hz (interlaced) or whatever mode it can handle, and this is fine.

What I did wrong was this: after selecting 640x480 30hz (interlaced), it displayed properly, so I just closed the display settings window.

This won't work, though, because you have to manually RE-SET the resolution after the cable switch again or it won't save that 30hz value. After I did that (essentially, set it to 6480x480 30hz (interlaced) twice (once when swapping to the LCD, the second time after swapping over to the CRT), it saved the value. So it wasn't even a GroovyMAME problem.

It seems to work perfectly now. This is PRETTY GOOD. Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty GOOD.

[Calamity]

Hi bulbousbeard,

This won't work, though, because you have to manually RE-SET the resolution after the cable switch again or it won't save that 30hz value.

That's actually very interesting and it may explain some of the issues that some users have been seeing (the case of Sledge comes to my mind, where the desktop mode wouldn't stick after restart with an HD 4350). Maybe the reason I haven't seen it here is because I do all the process on a multisync monitor so I don't have to swap cables. I guess we could figure out a method to automate this all a little bit so people don't stumble on this problem.

Thanks for testing!

[DeLuSioNal29]

Just saw this.  I'll need to do some testing myself on my Win 7 rig and my Betson arcade monitor.  Stay tuned...

DeLuSioNaL29

[Sledge]

Calamity,

Good news. I found out what was going on.

So, if you don't have a multisync monitor (standard res only), you have to do that monitor swap.

When you swap monitors, you have to select 640x480 30hz (interlaced) or whatever mode it can handle, and this is fine.

What I did wrong was this: after selecting 640x480 30hz (interlaced), it displayed properly, so I just closed the display settings window.

This won't work, though, because you have to manually RE-SET the resolution after the cable switch again or it won't save that 30hz value. After I did that (essentially, set it to 6480x480 30hz (interlaced) twice (once when swapping to the LCD, the second time after swapping over to the CRT), it saved the value. So it wasn't even a GroovyMAME problem.

It seems to work perfectly now. This is PRETTY GOOD. Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty GOOD.

Before you worked out the 'fix', each time you rebooted into windows, was the resolution ok? or was it running at 60hz (out of range of arcade screen?)
Or was it just an issue of the resolution not changing back to 640x480 after mame exited?

[bulbousbeard]

No, rebooting was out of range and I had to re-do the swap each time, and exiting MAME didn't reset it to the right resolution.

[Sledge]

No, rebooting was out of range and I had to re-do the swap each time, and exiting MAME didn't reset it to the right resolution.

and then after the 'fix', it boots to the correct resolution every time?

[bulbousbeard]

What did I just say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHtWEH0euh4#t=0m28s

[Sledge]

What did I just say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHtWEH0euh4#t=0m28s

You said your main issue was:

after I exit MAME, the Windows desktop stays at the resolution that the game was running at. Other than that, following Calamity's excellent instructions, everything seemed to work fine

Nothing about windows not BOOTING at the wrong resolution..
So i was just wanting to confirm what the issue was, and what fixed it before i go to the trouble of testing it all again

[bulbousbeard]

Yes, booting was at the wrong resolution, too. Doing this fixed everything. It works just as well as it did in XP now.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Hi all, I'm ready for testing but I can't seem to locate the beta Win 7 CRT Emu drivers.  Can someone please point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance!

DeLuSioNaL29

[ArcadeBliss]

Do mp4 play in hyperspin for you correctly? My setup is just a green screen in hyperspin and WMP. WMP I got sorted out but HS plays sound but not video 

Yes, booting was at the wrong resolution, too. Doing this fixed everything. It works just as well as it did in XP now.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Got the drivers ... thanks.  I'll see if I can start testing this week...

[Sledge]

Yes, booting was at the wrong resolution, too. Doing this fixed everything. It works just as well as it did in XP now.

Well i tried doing what you did, but it didn't make any difference.. Win 7 still boots out of sync when connected to the arcade monitor.

Do mp4 play in hyperspin for you correctly? My setup is just a green screen in hyperspin and WMP. WMP I got sorted out but HS plays sound but not video 

Yes, booting was at the wrong resolution, too. Doing this fixed everything. It works just as well as it did in XP now.

I get green screen too... in hyperspin

[Calamity]

Well i tried doing what you did, but it didn't make any difference.. Win 7 still boots out of sync when connected to the arcade monitor.

I was afraid of hearing this. I guess we need to apply a brute force approach and use a program to set a 15 kHz video mode upon each reboot. BTW what exact brand/model was your HD 4350?

I get green screen too... in hyperspin

ArcadeBliss passed me this link to a modded driver that is said to solve the green screen issue: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=374236

I've not much time atm but I'd like to try and build a CRT Emudriver release based on that driver to see if it fixes the problem.

[Sledge]

Well i tried doing what you did, but it didn't make any difference.. Win 7 still boots out of sync when connected to the arcade monitor.

I was afraid of hearing this. I guess we need to apply a brute force approach and use a program to set a 15 kHz video mode upon each reboot. BTW what exact brand/model was your HD 4350?

For this test i actually used the HIS HD4850.

But i think i noticed something weird..
When booting with the LCD attached, after setting the resolution, it boots, then goes out of range... automatically, then i swap to the CRT, and i get a picture.
Booting with nothing, or the CRT attached, i get an out of sync picture on the CRT..

[Calamity]

For this test i actually used the HIS HD4850.

Could you be more specific? I'd like to see a link to the exact thing, with pictures, etc.

But i think i noticed something weird..
When booting with the LCD attached, after setting the resolution, it boots, then goes out of range... automatically, then i swap to the CRT, and i get a picture.
Booting with nothing, or the CRT attached, i get an out of sync picture on the CRT..

That's interesting. It probably means that the problem is related to the drivers not detecting your monitor, thus defaulting to a "safe" mode. I assume you have seen the same behaviour with both outputs?

As a note, there's a way to force the arcade monitor to get detected, by means of soldering 75 ohms resistors between the color lines and ground of the VGA cable.

[Sledge]

For this test i actually used the HIS HD4850.

Could you be more specific? I'd like to see a link to the exact thing, with pictures, etc.

But i think i noticed something weird..
When booting with the LCD attached, after setting the resolution, it boots, then goes out of range... automatically, then i swap to the CRT, and i get a picture.
Booting with nothing, or the CRT attached, i get an out of sync picture on the CRT..

That's interesting. It probably means that the problem is related to the drivers not detecting your monitor, thus defaulting to a "safe" mode. I assume you have seen the same behaviour with both outputs?

As a note, there's a way to force the arcade monitor to get detected, by means of soldering 75 ohms resistors between the color lines and ground of the VGA cable.

This is the card...
http://www.hisdigital.com/us/product2-31.shtml
Only tested the Primary Port..

I did wonder about doing that with the resistors, but my knowledge of such things is limited, and i already nearly blew up the monitor once.. so am even more nervous now

[Sledge]

ArcadeBliss passed me this link to a modded driver that is said to solve the green screen issue: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=374236
I've not much time atm but I'd like to try and build a CRT Emudriver release based on that driver to see if it fixes the problem.

I wonder if there will be something there to help with the install on windows 7/8 as well?

Unsigned or test mode install not necessary even for Windows 8 x64

[Calamity]

I wonder if there will be something there to help with the install on windows 7/8 as well?

Helping in what sense?

[Sledge]

I wonder if there will be something there to help with the install on windows 7/8 as well?

Helping in what sense?

so that we don't have to use test mode on win7, and can install the drivers on Win8.

[Calamity]

so that we don't have to use test mode on win7, and can install the drivers on Win8.

No, I don't think that's even possible when you patch the binary files as we do.

[cools]

That bit of protection is the entire reason why I binned my Windows 8 installation permanently. All for stopping people doing stupid stuff, but making it that awkward was just ridiculous.

[Calamity]

Once things are up and running we might take up a collection to buy a code signing certificate for $229:

https://www.globalsign.com/code-signing/microsoft-authenticode.html

In theory this would make it possible to use W8 too.

[sean_sk]

Once things are up and running we might take up a collection to buy a code signing certificate for $229:

https://www.globalsign.com/code-signing/microsoft-authenticode.html

In theory this would make it possible to use W8 too.

Sounds like a great idea!

[Sledge]

Once things are up and running we might take up a collection to buy a code signing certificate for $229:

https://www.globalsign.com/code-signing/microsoft-authenticode.html

In theory this would make it possible to use W8 too.

is that a once off? or every time you want to release a new driver you gotta get another?
Covers both Win7 & 8 ? Or seperate one  for each?

But yeah, sounds like a good idea!

[DeLuSioNal29]

I just read over the Certificate info on the link:

System Requirements:
Must use the same PC, Windows login/user profile, and browser for enrollment and certificate installation.

Will it still work?  Or am I interpreting it incorrectly?

DeLuSioNaL29

[Calamity]

is that a once off? or every time you want to release a new driver you gotta get another?
Covers both Win7 & 8 ? Or seperate one  for each?

The same certificate is valid for all versions of Windows. As far as I know you buy the certificate for 1 year period (or more) and you can sign as many programs as you need during that period. If you apply a timestamp as you sign the programs, the signature will still be valid even when the certificate expires (after 1 year). If you want to release a new version after the certificate has expired, you need to buy a new one. That's why we should only buy it when everything is up and running, and have 1 year since then to add any improvements or fix anything that could be wrong.

Must use the same PC, Windows login/user profile, and browser for enrollment and certificate installation.

Will it still work?  Or am I interpreting it incorrectly?

That only applies to the person that has to sign the software (me). Once signed with the proper certificate, you can distribute the software and Windows will recognize it as coming from a trusted publisher.

Just to clarify, with current CRT Emudriver for W7 the signature process is completely implemented, otherwise it wouldn't even load in W7 64 bits. It's only that I'm using a self-signed certificate. But because this certificate comes from me instead of a trusted publisher, this makes it necessary to turn W7 test-signing off so that the drivers are loaded. The problem with W8 is that it goes one step beyond so that test-signing can't be disabled permanently, you need to do it manually for each session. Using a proper certificate would overcome the need of disabling test-signing for both W7/W8.

[lolo40]

Hi,

Is there a link for the beta Win 7 CRT Emu drivers.
I love GroovyMAME on my xp machine and i want to test it on my new pc.
Thx.


Edit:
Thanks Calamity!

[DeLuSioNal29]

So I finally got around to messing around with these drivers.  I have a Betson 27" Multisync arcade monitor so I chose the D9800 which is close.  I had no issues with the installation.  Rebooted, and noticed that things slowed to a crawl.  After uninstalling Norton Internet Security it normalized, but every now and then things get slow when clicking on stuff.  (Mouse will freeze for a good 30 seconds)

MAME works great, I ran the VMMaker program (after editing the .ini file (using Static Table option).   Most of the games run in great resolutions and I used my monitors OSD to make them perfect.

Hyperspin - I'm getting the same green screen for my videos that everyone is experiencing.

However, I'm having trouble running my Steam games.  Some run in a funky resolution (Rayman Legends for example does not see 800 x 600 res AT ALL unless it's at 60Hz).  Sonic All-Star Racing Transformed will not run at all.  When going to the config screen for Sonic, MS .NET Framwork crashes with and unhandled exception.

MESS emulator runs well with consoles, but all other consoles I've tried will not load (BlueMSX, Nostalgia)

Any suggestions?

DeLuSioNaL29

[Calamity]

Hi DeLuSioNal29,

Thanks a lot for your report.

So I finally got around to messing around with these drivers.  I have a Betson 27" Multisync arcade monitor so I chose the D9800 which is close.  I had no issues with the installation.  Rebooted, and noticed that things slowed to a crawl.  After uninstalling Norton Internet Security it normalized, but every now and then things get slow when clicking on stuff.  (Mouse will freeze for a good 30 seconds)

Yeah this is a known issue, it happens the first time the API used for reporting modes is invoked, due to the driver having to manage a long mode list it becomes very slow. My guess is that the driver needs to validate each new custom mode against the connected monitors. This is why having 2 monitors connected makes the process even slower. For some reason this process is extremely more inefficient than it used to be with Windows XP.

The best approach, and probably the solution we all should be adopting for the present/future is to forget about the good old static/dynamic mode tables and start using "super resolutions". In order to build such a mode table, edit the ReslList.txt file with these contents:

Code: [Select]

## Desktop ##

 640 x 480 @ 60.000000 desktop

## Super resolutions ##
2560 x 240 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 248 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 256 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 264 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 272 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 280 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 288 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 296 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 304 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 320 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 336 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 344 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 352 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 360 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 368 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 376 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 384 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 392 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 400 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 416 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 432 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 448 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 464 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 480 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 480 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 496 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 496 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 512 @ 59.000000 super
2560 x 544 @ 55.000000 super
2560 x 560 @ 54.000000 super
2560 x 768 @ 60.000000 super
2560 x 800 @ 60.000000 super
Then in vmmaker.ini, disable ListFromXml, and run it.

In mame.ini, set:

Code: [Select]

resolution 2560x0
cleanstretch 2
This should be enough. Notice that depending on your monitor you may not need all the resolutions I added in ReslList.txt, so create your own that fits your needs.

Hyperspin - I'm getting the same green screen for my videos that everyone is experiencing.

This is a problem with the specific driver we used as a base for CRT Emudriver (according to ATI it was the most stable/refined version of the drivers that was available for legacy cards, ha ha).

(I'm tempted to argue that the primary goal of this project is not to play mp4 videos inside a Flash-based menu, but I'll refrain myself and all I'll say is this is an unfortunate setback and I'll redo the whole thing based on well tested version of the drivers)

However, I'm having trouble running my Steam games.  Some run in a funky resolution (Rayman Legends for example does not see 800 x 600 res AT ALL unless it's at 60Hz).  Sonic All-Star Racing Transformed will not run at all.  When going to the config screen for Sonic, MS .NET Framwork crashes with and unhandled exception.

MESS emulator runs well with consoles, but all other consoles I've tried will not load (BlueMSX, Nostalgia)

You may need to add 800x600 to the above list (and set a monitor preset in vmmaker.ini which allows it)

Usually the fact that a program doesn't load is enterely its own fault. Programmers are sometimes lazy and assume things they shouldn't assume. Things like that a certain mode will exist, or that the whole list of modes will be below a certain number. You can only try to figure out what their wrong assumptions were and hope to be able to reproduce an environment where they don't crash. Fortunately the only 2 differences when using CRT Emudriver as compared with a normal setup are:

1.- The mode list is much longer than usual. This can make poorly coded programs to crash. Making the list shorter will solve the problem. Using magic resolutions in XP or super resolutions in W7 fixes this too with no compromises.

2.- The lack of some or all common vesa-like modes: 640x480@60, 800x600@60, 1024x768@60. Some programs will just expect these modes to exist. You may need to add them. Notice that often these modes do not exist because VMMaker can't create them for your frequency ranges allowed by your monitor.

 

[Calamity]

I want to thank all the beta testers for their reports. I think it's time to release the beta version so more people can test it, and in the meantime I'll be finishing the new version of VMMaker.

I've rebuilt the beta version based on the "reloaded" release created by kevsamiga1974 here. This release should fix the green screen when playing mp4 videos, and much more things (more info).

Download CRT Emudriver 13.1-1.2b W7 x64 - BETA (reloaded)

Installation notes:

1.- For safety, make sure UAC is enabled until you have everything up and running. This will avoid installation issues.
2.- Run the Setup program on the package with ADMIN RIGHTS enabled.
3.- DO NOT restart the system when W7 prompts you to do so, let the Setup program finish, allow it to set TEST mode on.
4.- CRT Emudriver for W7 doesn't boot in 15 kHz automatically after restart. You need to enable it manually, but this is a little tricky unless you have a multisync monitor. If you have standard arcade monitor, here are the steps you MUST follow:

  4.1.- Install the driver using a computer monitor (LCD or CRT 31 kHz capable monitor)
  4.2.- Once installed, turn the computer off and plug your arcade monitor.
  4.3.- Boot the machine, with the arcade monitor *turn off* (keep it off to avoid bad frequencies in, not needed if you have a jpac)
  4.4.- Once you hear W7 sound so you're sure the boot process is ready, unplug the arcade monitor and plug the computer monitor on the same output you were using for the arcade monitor. The purpose of this thing is to avoid W7 reading the LCD's EDID during the boot process.
  4.5.- Now you should have a 31 kHz picture on your computer monitor. Go into screen properties, advanced, show all modes. In the list there should be this mode: 640 x 480 @ 30 Hz. 30 Hz stands for interlaced here. That's a 15 kHz mode. Select it and apply. Now your computer monitor should get out of sync.
  4.6.- Plug your arcade monitor now. You should get a stable picture.
  4.7.- Go *again* into screen properties, advanced, show all modes and re-select 640 x 480 @ 30 Hz and apply. This is required so that the mode "sticks" after the cable swap.
  4.8.- Now reboot, and if everything is all right, you should have a stable 15 Khz mode on your monitor since now on each restart.


In case you're going to use VMMaker and ArcadeOSD, make sure to use the ones in the package, and run them with admin rights. Magic resolutions won't work in W7, so make sure to disable it from vmmaker.ini (it's enabled by default).

Warning: CRT Emudriver for W7 can make your system slow on boot and mode switching depending on the length of the mode table. For this reason, using "super resolutions" is recommended, as explained here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138903.msg1440362.html#msg1440362

[sean_sk]

Thanks for the release Calamity. Great job! They'll be a lot of happy GM users here as a result of the release.

I might even swap out my AVGA for the spare HD4670 I have sitting around here and give the beta driver a test myself.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Agreed.  Nice job Calamity.

Quick question:  I'm editing my ReslList.txt to add the "super resolutions" and I have my Desktop running at 800x600, since that's the maximum that my Betson Multisync monitor supports.

Should I change the line that says:
## Desktop ##
 640 x 480 @ 30.000000 desktop

to be:

## Desktop ##
 800 x 600 @ 60.000000 desktop

D

[Calamity]

You can keep both:

## Desktop ##
 640 x 480 @ 30.000000 desktop
 800 x 600 @ 60.000000 desktop

However, make sure the 800x600 resolution is being generated (open Modeline.txt after VMMaker finishes its job), some presets won't allow that res to be created.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Ok, the past week I've gotten to play with this new version.  (CRT_Emudriver_13.1_1.2b_W7x64_reloaded_beta)

I've solved most of my emulator issues by matching up my video settings in my config files to the modes listed in the ReslList.txt file.   

I also solved the issue I was having with some Steam games by adding the 800 x 600 option to the ReslList.txt file as well.  It now works flawlessly.  (Sonic Racing Transformed and Rayman Legends).  You were correct in that the programming was sloppy and it didn't know what to do if certain modes were missing in Windows.

However, I still have the green screen issue with the CRT emu driver for .MP4 files.  Outside of my FE it plays the audio only and black for video.  In Hyperspin, it plays the audio only and green for the video; the new driver didn't seem to solve it.

Is there something that I missed when uninstalling and re-installing the updated CRT emu drivers?  I did notice the the updated drivers did not install ATI Catalyst after I uninstalled it.  Could that be the problem?  I was searching for a way to disable hardware acceleration to see if that helped (based on what I've read for Windows 8 - I'm running Windows 7 64-bit).  But the absence of ATI Catalyst makes it difficult.  Any suggestions?

Again, can't say it enough Calamity, great work.  Also, I need to test more MAME games.  Any problematic ones that I should test?

DeLuSioNaL29

[Calamity]

Hi DeLuSioNal29,

I also had the problem with black video and I think I solved it by installing ffdshow. I downloaded several sample .mp4 files and they all played fine after that. I don't have HS here to test however.

I'd rather keep the video driver alone instead repacking the whole Catalyst suite and its associated bloat. Let's see if you can fix your issue with the codecs first.