Hardware upgrade for HLSL

[Benzinbruder]

Hi everybody,

At the moment I'm struggling to get my PC intended for my cabinet to work (boots, but screen stays black).
Now that the case is opened, I might as well upgrade a few parts.

The topics http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=post;topic=122883.0;last_msg=1305399 and http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=112257.0 suggest a new graphics card might be needed. My PC is sporting a GeForce 6700 XL now. I know it's capable of Direct3D Pixel Shader 3.0, but would you say I'm in the need of an upgrade anyway?
I was thinking about a GeForce G 210 (25 bucks) or even a GT610 (44 bucks). Both passively cooled, so this should make the PC even quieter as well. What do you think?

Also, I'm on a Pentium-D 830, 2x 3,0 GHz and 1 GB of DDR-533 RAM at the moment.
I could get 2x1 GB of DDR2 677 RAM for another 40 bucks.

What do you guys say?
The thing should run mostly MAME and C64, and older console games (NES, SNES, etc.). HLSL should disctract me from my LCD. 

[Fonkybeachbum]

$80 seems like a lot to throw into that computer, for not so much more money, you could get way newer components (dual core, 4x the RAM)

[Benzinbruder]

Yeah, you might be right... On the other side, it cost 0 $ so far! 


I'm certainly open to suggestions on what hardware to use to base to build a Hyperspin-MAME unit from scratch.

As mentioned above, it should handle HLSL well.
Game-wise I'll stick to MAME and maybe some 90's console games.

Has anybody built a new unit recently? Any recommendations?
It's quite some time ago that I built my last desktop...

pcmasterrace, HAWLP! 

[roknrol]

Before you spend any money on upgrading that box, I'd determine whether the video card is definitely the problem. Do you have another PCIe card to install and test?

If just the card is bad, I'd check with 404 and see whether he can hook you up with the 2GB RAM and maybe one of the two 8-series cards he's selling. Be a better investment on an old rig and a lot less money than you were planning on spending. Pentium D should be capable of running 800 MHz RAM.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138616.0.html

[404]

I'd try to get the pc to boot properly first before i go about looking at hlsl and upgraded ram. That rig is just fine for 2d games and a handful of 3d mame games.

My findings with hlsl have been spotty at best. Some effects can easily be done with minimal graphics power. Some others place an immense workload on the gpu.

[Benzinbruder]

Good news! The PC is up and running again. It's probably been one of the RAM bars that didn't fit tightly in the sockets. I moved the PC recently (from honorable donor to the "Arcade Workshop"), maybe they came loose then. Anyway, as soon as I took them out and reinserted them one after another the PC was booting! Yay!

Really thinking of getting more RAM though. Not sure if 800 Mhz would work in this mainboard: http://217.110.237.70/Manuals/7204-engl-MS-7204-MedionMD8800.pdf
The manual says it's limited to DDR2 533 or 667.


Regarding the graphics card, I just asked because I read that the GeForce 6 and 7 series cards would definitely not run full fledged HLSL without serious performance issues. If your experience is different, I'll give the 6700 XL it a try. I just don't want to have to test every single game I want to play to see if it works out or not, if that can be circumvented with a 20 $ - 40 $ investment.

Can't buy any of the cards from 404 though, as shipping to Europe would probably cost more than all of the stuff he offers combined!
What do you think of a GT 610? Would that be good enough to handle at least the MAME games?

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it!

[EMDB]

Good news! The PC is up and running again. It's probably been one of the RAM bars that didn't fit tightly in the sockets. I moved the PC recently (from honorable donor to the "Arcade Workshop"), maybe they came loose then. Anyway, as soon as I took them out and reinserted them one after another the PC was booting! Yay!

Really thinking of getting more RAM though. Not sure if 800 Mhz would work in this mainboard: http://217.110.237.70/Manuals/7204-engl-MS-7204-MedionMD8800.pdf
The manual says it's limited to DDR2 533 or 667.


Regarding the graphics card, I just asked because I read that the GeForce 6 and 7 series cards would definitely not run full fledged HLSL without serious performance issues. If your experience is different, I'll give the 6700 XL it a try. I just don't want to have to test every single game I want to play to see if it works out or not, if that can be circumvented with a 20 $ - 40 $ investment.

Can't buy any of the cards from 404 though, as shipping to Europe would probably cost more than all of the stuff he offers combined!
What do you think of a GT 610? Would that be good enough to handle at least the MAME games?

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it!

You could consider a hardware solution for adding your scanlines to spare your PC's power to emulate the games: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,128970.0.html



 

[Benzinbruder]

Hi EMDB,

I know that there are SLG's, but the problem is that they seem to work properly only at 4:3 resolutions (like 640 x 480).
Since I'll use a monitor with an aspect ratio of 16:10, SLG's most likely wont do the trick for me.

As long as the cost for the GPU upgrade is tolerable, I have no problems with that.
If you think I should build the whole system based on another, more powerful PC though, that would be another question.

In both cases, I'd really need some advice on which hardware to buy.
This is my newest find: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121778
Will it be sufficient?

Keep in mind that I plan to play games like Metal Slug, Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, vertical SHMUPS etc.
So no 3D stuff. Well, SFIV maybe...

[404]

Hi EMDB,

I know that there are SLG's, but the problem is that they seem to work properly only at 4:3 resolutions (like 640 x 480).
Since I'll use a monitor with an aspect ratio of 16:10, SLG's most likely wont do the trick for me.

As long as the cost for the GPU upgrade is tolerable, I have no problems with that.
If you think I should build the whole system based on another, more powerful PC though, that would be another question.

In both cases, I'd really need some advice on which hardware to buy.
This is my newest find: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121778
Will it be sufficient?

Keep in mind that I plan to play games like Metal Slug, Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, vertical SHMUPS etc.
So no 3D stuff. Well, SFIV maybe...

Again, this mostly boils down to what HLSL effects you really want to run. If its just scanlines, you won't have a problem.

Considering your rig and your budget, the following cards should match up well and you can get them dirt cheap second hand if you look around.
ATI X series (X800 and up)
ATI HD 2 and 3 series cards
Geforce 6 and 7 series.

If i were you, I'd just join any of the more common European Tech sites that have Buy,Sell,Trade forums and find something along those lines there second hand for cheap. There are some forums have have freebies sections where guys regularly give stuff like this away for just the cost of shipping. I regularly contribute to the freebies threads on here, Hardforum, Ars technica, Anandtech and a few others. I'd offer you something for free but even then, it would cost more to ship to you than it's worth.

[Benzinbruder]

Again, this mostly boils down to what HLSL effects you really want to run. If its just scanlines, you won't have a problem.

Considering your rig and your budget, the following cards should match up well and you can get them dirt cheap second hand if you look around.
ATI X series (X800 and up)
ATI HD 2 and 3 series cards
Geforce 6 and 7 series.

As far as HLSL is concerned, I'm thinking of scanlines, shaders, pincushion, curvature...
I'll try to find something mathing your suggestions second hand. However, I am no longer that well informed as I have been once regarding what is mathing good / bad hardware. That's why I initially had planned to buy a new, cheap card with the option to get a refund if it wouldn't work in my setup.

I haven't known about these "freebie" sections, I'll try to find something like that! 

[Benzinbruder]

Ok guys, I just did the first test run on the supposed-to-be cabinet PC. As suspected, somewhat serious lag is introduced with teh activation of HLSL.
I used this in the mame.ini for a start, and I have to say it looks really good to me:

Code: [Select]

#
# DIRECT3D POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#

hlsl_enable 1
hlslini hlsl
hlslpath hlsl
hlsl_prescale_x 0
hlsl_prescale_y 0
hlsl_preset -1
hlsl_snap_width 1920
hlsl_snap_height 1200
shadow_mask_alpha 0.100000
shadow_mask_texture aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count 320
shadow_mask_y_count 240
shadow_mask_usize 0.093750
shadow_mask_vsize 0.093750
curvature 0.050000
curvature 0.050000
pincushion 0.050000
scanline_alpha 0.600000
scanline_size 1.000000
scanline_height 0.700000
scanline_bright_scale 1.500000
scanline_bright_offset 0.600000
scanline_jitter 0.000000
defocus 1.500000,1.500000
converge_x 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
converge_y 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_x 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_y 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
red_ratio 1.000000,0.000000,0.000000
grn_ratio 0.000000,1.000000,0.000000
blu_ratio 0.000000,0.000000,1.000000
saturation 1.050000
offset 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
scale 1.000000,1.000000,1.000000
power 2.200000,2.200000,2.200000
floor 0.020000,0.020000,0.020000
phosphor_life 0.200000,0.200000,0.200000
yiq_enable 0
yiq_cc 3.597545
yiq_a 0.500000
yiq_b 0.500000
yiq_o 0.000000
yiq_p 1.000000
yiq_n 1.000000
yiq_y 6.000000
yiq_i 1.200000
yiq_q 0.600000
yiq_scan_time 52.599998
yiq_phase_count 2

So this means a new GPU has to be obtained and I hope this will do the trick. 
Other than that, the PC should handle the whole emulator thing fine.
At least it runs MAME games without issues when HLSL is turned off.

Or should I try to get a cheap new PC altogether (something A8 based or so... there are offers starting from 300 bucks)?

[404]

Ok guys, I just did the first test run on the supposed-to-be cabinet PC. As suspected, somewhat serious lag is introduced with teh activation of HLSL.
I used this in the mame.ini for a start, and I have to say it looks really good to me:

Code: [Select]

#
# DIRECT3D POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#

hlsl_enable 1
hlslini hlsl
hlslpath hlsl
hlsl_prescale_x 0
hlsl_prescale_y 0
hlsl_preset -1
hlsl_snap_width 1920
hlsl_snap_height 1200
shadow_mask_alpha 0.100000
shadow_mask_texture aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count 320
shadow_mask_y_count 240
shadow_mask_usize 0.093750
shadow_mask_vsize 0.093750
curvature 0.050000
curvature 0.050000
pincushion 0.050000
scanline_alpha 0.600000
scanline_size 1.000000
scanline_height 0.700000
scanline_bright_scale 1.500000
scanline_bright_offset 0.600000
scanline_jitter 0.000000
defocus 1.500000,1.500000
converge_x 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
converge_y 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_x 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_y 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
red_ratio 1.000000,0.000000,0.000000
grn_ratio 0.000000,1.000000,0.000000
blu_ratio 0.000000,0.000000,1.000000
saturation 1.050000
offset 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
scale 1.000000,1.000000,1.000000
power 2.200000,2.200000,2.200000
floor 0.020000,0.020000,0.020000
phosphor_life 0.200000,0.200000,0.200000
yiq_enable 0
yiq_cc 3.597545
yiq_a 0.500000
yiq_b 0.500000
yiq_o 0.000000
yiq_p 1.000000
yiq_n 1.000000
yiq_y 6.000000
yiq_i 1.200000
yiq_q 0.600000
yiq_scan_time 52.599998
yiq_phase_count 2

So this means a new GPU has to be obtained and I hope this will do the trick. 
Other than that, the PC should handle the whole emulator thing fine.
At least it runs MAME games without issues when HLSL is turned off.

Or should I try to get a cheap new PC altogether (something A8 based or so... there are offers starting from 300 bucks)?

tough call IMO. As i already mentioned, some of the HLSL effects really drain while others are not as brutal on GPU load.  A new mame setup may help but you are still going to need a decent gpu to go along with it.