UK government pays Microsoft to extend XP updates

[Ken Layton]

It's being reported that the British government is paying Microsoft 5.5. million pounds to continue providing updates to the Windows XP operating system.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/07/uk-government-microsoft-windows-xp-public-sector

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah China is being reluctant to swap out as well. 

As fond of Xp as I am, I just don't get it.  Vista was a nightmare, but 7/8 are certainly good.  I know that businesses typically stay a few versions behind, but that's a full 3 versions back... it's time to move on. 

[Ken Layton]

I'm using Vista on two of my laptops and have had no problems with them. Vista has been good for me. I also still use Win98SE on my third laptop because some of my specialized equipment use DOS programs.

I have many friends still using XP. In my opinion, XP was the last "non-bloated" Windows operating system and it was (and still is) a good system.

I've been hearing that some large companies and corporations here in the US will still continue to get XP updates for the next year at least by paying a yearly subscription fee to Microsoft.

[Hunk_4TH]

Oh wow. XP has to be one of the longest supported OSes. It's so damn outdated by today's standards. Why do companies not upgrade their hardware and move on? lol

[Howard_Casto]

Well this is a thing about security updates, it's not like XP magically stops working. 

I like xp and use it for a lot of things, including mame cabs, but I think it's ridiculous to keep expecting M$ to spend money making security updates for it at this point. 

I'm just saying... it's a 13 year old OS, let it go people. 

[ballboff]

Well you see nobody wants to invest the money in upgrading all their hardware to a new embedded system.  Pretty much most machines in business in the uk are run off windows xp, from cash machines to photo-booths, to bus times.  They are starting to panic now because they know that as soon as microsoft stop supporting it, someone's gonna come out with a cash machine hack and wipe us all out!

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah but they act like $M just did this without warning.  If I'm remembering correctly they've tried to stop support twice already and the big M extended it basically telling them to get their crap together. 

It's the digital cable conversion mandate all over again. 

I don't think atm's are in any danger.  You have to be able to access the computer inside and atms have several layers of concrete and steel preventing that.  The end user only has access to the keypad and card slot.  Pretty sure they all use a hard line as well.

[ballboff]

Yeah they've seen too many movies.  In hackers I think they sit down in a train station somewhere and log onto their wifi, they play a little virtual reality game and when they get to the win screen, they are hacked in.

[Ken Layton]

A lot of people and companies CAN'T afford to replace hardware/computers all the time. It gets to be too expensive and time consuming, especially when the computers you have now are working perfectly fine.

There's no way in hell I would want to "upgrade" to Window 8.

[BadMouth]

Oh wow. XP has to be one of the longest supported OSes. It's so damn outdated by today's standards. Why do companies not upgrade their hardware and move on? lol

because it still serves their purpose.
You don't see manufacturing plants investing in new equipment when the old still works just fine and newer versions do not offer anything that would increase production.

[ed12]

there is a boat load of reasons
1=my programer's will not work right under 7/8
2=goldent tee golf/pga golf will not work right >cannot tie into a network<
3=most mfg's have gotten xp xpe >embeded< down to an art. why rock the boat ?
4=7/7r1/8 is eye candy for vista..need i explain more to that statment ?
5=did u note 7/7r1/8 ? all in 1 year,nakes u go what's next 9
welp yes..it is beta right now...
6=7/7r1/8/9 is ment for newer 64 bit systems
which do not have ide as a option,nor par port,nor serial,refer to point#1
it is either sata and usb with touch,or u request the special 7/7r1/8/9 pkg..and yes u pay fo it also..
clear enough ?

ed

[pbj]

Hammer was dropped on XP here today.  Still running XP?  Not getting on the network anymore.

 

[EightBySix]

A lot of people and companies CAN'T afford to replace hardware/computers all the time. It gets to be too expensive and time consuming, especially when the computers you have now are working perfectly fine.

There's no way in hell I would want to "upgrade" to Window 8.

I run windows 8 on my old XP machine, and frankly, its faster to run and boots in 1/2 the time. I had to buy a £9 network card because win 8 didn't recognise the on board one, but I haven't looked back.

[EightBySix]

Well this is a thing about security updates, it's not like XP magically stops working. 

I like xp and use it for a lot of things, including mame cabs, but I think it's ridiculous to keep expecting M$ to spend money making security updates for it at this point. 

I read in another forum how a user was so disgusted with Microsoft that they were going to move over to apple software immediately. Good luck with that then. My iPad is no longer supported with updates and its only a few years old. 

[ed12]

well to clear it up,my main box's at home will alway's get there >network wise<
my igt's/gobalvr golf/vrock juke box's all need an up-date to net 4.2/2a/2
which the golf games will not take easy >windows xp>e< <
so u see the main problem?

ed

[roknrol]

All right, so question:

I've been operating under the impression that Microsoft is simply not going to offer any new, additional updates and security fixes for Windows XP going forward. Fair enough.

But if I have an OEM board and the appropriate XP install disks, will I still be able to install a fresh copy of XP on that board and get it licensed through Microsoft and also be able to download all service packs, patches, and fixes released up to this point?

Or can I no longer install XP period?

(In reading through Microsoft's communications I'm getting this foreboding feeling ....)

[Slippyblade]

XP was great.  Vista sucked donkey balls and the only reason I had it was due to getting a free copy as a door prize at a Microsoft Dev Conference.  Win7 was fantastic.  Win8...  OMG.  Using it makes me want to punch myself in the junk just to distract myself from the abortion of thought that it is.

[wp34]

Oh wow. XP has to be one of the longest supported OSes. It's so damn outdated by today's standards. Why do companies not upgrade their hardware and move on? lol

It isn't the hardware necessarily.   At work switching from XP to Windows 7 required us to purchase new software to image the drives and manage user profiles.   We are also experiencing a lot of issues with legacy application compatibility.   Upgrading ends up being a lot of work for a small technical staff.

[roknrol]

Answered my own question: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/enterprise/end-of-support.aspx

Odd, I had to go to a blog post to find my way to the above Microsoft page. Couldn't find it directly on MS ....

In short, you can continue to install and activate and patch licensed versions of XP after today. The only thing I saw that will truly not be available after today is downloading and installing Microsoft Security Essentials (if you wanted to include MSE as your antivirus).

[Howard_Casto]

Oh wow. XP has to be one of the longest supported OSes. It's so damn outdated by today's standards. Why do companies not upgrade their hardware and move on? lol

because it still serves their purpose.
You don't see manufacturing plants investing in new equipment when the old still works just fine and newer versions do not offer anything that would increase production.

You don't see many manufacturing plants with a robot arm or other embedded device that requires a internet connection either.  The only thing M$ is stopping is security updates, which means it only effects a general use desktop computer that requires a net connection.  I'm not buying the whole software incompatibility stuff either.  I'll remind you guys that all of the stuff I make around here is made with Visual Studio 6.0... which was released in 1998.  Still runs on windows 8.  So I guess if the applications were coded really poorly, but I mean short of ms-dos applications, old 32bit windows stuff will run on virtually any version of windows.   

Now drivers, that's another story, but again I can't think of a situation where you would have a specialized hardware do-hickey on a computer that was also being used as a desktop computer.  Even ignoring that, most 32bit xp drivers will also run on 32 bit vista/7/8.

What I'm getting at is "dropping support" means virtually nothing unless you are in a situation where you are genuinely worried about security vulnerabilities.  Most applications of XP at this point are so niche I don't think that's really a problem. 

People don't HAVE to update.  They only need to upgrade if they are in a situation where hacking/viruses/ect might be a legitimate concern. 

[ed12]

thk-u Howard_Casto

that is what i was getting at

ed

[pbj]

I can't think of a situation where you would have a specialized hardware do-hickey on a computer that was also being used as a desktop computer.

Every research lab ever.

[ed12]

as i did try to explain
i have to have certian programers for dif mfg's on hand
but as there code was written in xp and not 7/7r1/8
they simpley do not work right at all
example
 a is ict dba's>digital bill adapter< there fp001 will error out
75% of the time in 7,have a 7 box here to prove it with
where as in xp the program fly's in
reason for this is they are timed through the serial port >true rs232<

b gobalpga sports golf game is windowxp>e<..there is a set of .net driver's in it that are as old as the hill's

my emp30 which is par driven is now use less in 7
my gq-4x eprom reader-programmer same thing in 7
where this stuff works fine in xp
the list just grow's

if it was all i did was net bound i would care less
7/7r1/8/9 have at er
but for my work i have to stick with the work horse
xp

ed

[keilmillerjr]

WTF?! I don't understand windows users. How can you move forward if you are stuck in the past?

[DaveMMR]

WTF?! I don't understand windows users. How can you move forward if you are stuck in the past?

See below.

because it still serves their purpose.
You don't see manufacturing plants investing in new equipment when the old still works just fine and newer versions do not offer anything that would increase production.

A lot of people and companies CAN'T afford to replace hardware/computers all the time. It gets to be too expensive and time consuming, especially when the computers you have now are working perfectly fine.

There's no way in hell I would want to "upgrade" to Window 8.

Home users are not really the issue here. They either are casual users (they probably don't even have the latest updates as it is) or are more computer savvy users who are running XP for a specific reason (and know the risks and can minimize them.)  Businesses, on the other hand, are looking at an expensive - almost mandatory - system-wide upgrade for which they have to worry about hardware and proprietary software compatibility.

Speaking of what Ken said about Window's 8 - I have the exception to my generalization about home users. A guy for whom I do small computers jobs panicked about XP's end-of-support. Even though it's money in my pocket for the work, I tried to talk him out of it. His security needs are minimal and he was looking to move to an Apple box in the near future anyway so why spend the money. But he wanted piece of mind so I had him purchase and download Windows 8 (because I couldn't find MS selling 7 anymore and he nor I was trekking to the store to buy a boxed copy.)  It's a bit of a pain-in-the-ass, but, I have to say, once I put on the start menu replacement, Windows 8 is not a terrible upgrade. It works just fine on his 2007 computer with his minimal single gig of RAM. (It's just too bad it's no longer a $35 upgrade...) 

[Howard_Casto]

I can't think of a situation where you would have a specialized hardware do-hickey on a computer that was also being used as a desktop computer.

Every research lab ever.

That requires XP and has security concerns?  Try again pbj. 

[keilmillerjr]

WTF?! I don't understand windows users. How can you move forward if you are stuck in the past?

See below.

because it still serves their purpose.
You don't see manufacturing plants investing in new equipment when the old still works just fine and newer versions do not offer anything that would increase production.

Well, ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Mac OS9 worked just fine. Was even speedier than OS10 for years. You don't see me still bitching at Apple for security updates on it. I do miss the powerPC days though.

[Howard_Casto]

Before this gets out of hand, shouldn't this be moved to everything else?  This is the software forum, but for arcade/gaming related questions. 

[Dawgz Rule]

That requires XP and has security concerns?  Try again pbj.

Yes.   There are a lot of pieces of hardware that are cost prohibitive to replace at the same frequency as the OS (LACE, HPLC's, Spectrum Analyzers) yet are not compatible with anything above XP.  Same for software.   Scientific and Manufacturing software is insanely expensive (and poorly written) which compounds the issue.  True, not all need internet access but many do.  For those that do, there are a number of steps that can be taken to mitigate risk.

[pbj]

Specialized equipment that requires XP plus poorly funded labs that use the machines for double duty as desktops.  It's very common and there's no sense in arguing with people that don't know what they're talking about.  Hell, I saw OS2 running circa 2003 in a lab and they were still using the damn thing for Wordperfect and e-mail on the side.



 

[ed12]

for me this is the 1
>Specialized equipment that requires XP<
for net bound stuff i can and do use 7
but for the programmers,i can not as a small business justifiy up-grading..
i would rather just pull the xp box's off line
and use 7 to serf with..and have a good night's sleep

ed

[Drnick]

Whilst at first looks this may seem like madness, It isn't and here is why.

This issue has come about due to the need for councils to have a secure network connection to take any kind of credit/debit card payment. This has some very strict rules on what is and isn't allowed and Operating systems that are no longer getting updates are a no no.  (Although you do get 6 months to resolve the issue before they stop access) Guess what all the self serve terminals in  reception are based on?  Yep you got it "Windows XP"  It would be a disaster for the government if councils were unable to take debit/credit card payments.   We have to replace 800 Devices to meet the requirements for connection to the secure network.  As per many other councils in the country this was never going to be completed in time for the cut off of windows xp support. (Due to some stupid rule of Efficiency and always giving value for money we are stuck in the dark ages of Server 2003R2 Windows XP and Office 2003)

Considering we will be spending somewhere near £200,000 just on the hardware to update all the existing xp devices to Win 7 Based units. And on top of that the costs for the server room have topped £500K. By doing all these upgrades it should keep us going strong for about 5 years. But the cost is 140K a year for the next 5 Years.

I Just checked and it seems that there are 433 councils in the UK so to keep the updates going for one year would be an average of 12k Per council. This gives everyone plenty of chance to update all of their old XP Devices whilst getting the best prices on the hardware by all ganging together and buying thousands at a time. A £20 reduction in the price of each device and I guess that the craziness of 5.5Million really is value for money 

I'm not defending the decision, Hell we should have been replacing windows xp based units with Windows 7 machines about 2 Years ago, Then we wouldn't be in this mess, but hey who am I to decide on IT policy, We don't have problems, Just opportunities or I don't care how but just get it done is all they say 

[Dawgz Rule]

Specialized equipment that requires XP plus poorly funded labs that use the machines for double duty as desktops.  It's very common and there's no sense in arguing with people that don't know what they're talking about.  Hell, I saw OS2 running circa 2003 in a lab and they were still using the damn thing for Wordperfect and e-mail on the side.

 

[pbj]

I'll give everyone three guesses when it comes to answering, "who's burning a Windows password reset CD tonight because they can't get into their NT system running a $5,000 program they can't afford to update?"

Think carefully.

Sadly the damn program needs a dongle.  If someone here feels up to cracking that necessity off a 90s era program, please contact me privately.  $$$ etc.

 

[Paul Olson]

as i did try to explain
i have to have certian programers for dif mfg's on hand
but as there code was written in xp and not 7/7r1/8
they simpley do not work right at all
example
 a is ict dba's>digital bill adapter< there fp001 will error out
75% of the time in 7,have a 7 box here to prove it with
where as in xp the program fly's in
reason for this is they are timed through the serial port >true rs232<

b gobalpga sports golf game is windowxp>e<..there is a set of .net driver's in it that are as old as the hill's

my emp30 which is par driven is now use less in 7
my gq-4x eprom reader-programmer same thing in 7
where this stuff works fine in xp
the list just grow's

if it was all i did was net bound i would care less
7/7r1/8/9 have at er
but for my work i have to stick with the work horse
xp

ed

The gq-4x works fine in 7, 8, and 8.1

[ed12]

thk-u Paul Olson
thas good to know

ed

[ark_ader]

I'll give everyone three guesses when it comes to answering, "who's burning a Windows password reset CD tonight because they can't get into their NT system running a $5,000 program they can't afford to update?"

Think carefully.

Sadly the damn program needs a dongle.  If someone here feels up to cracking that necessity off a 90s era program, please contact me privately.  $$$ etc.

 

I can get into any Windows NT Server Box and reset it's password.  That isn't hard.  The solution to keep XP working is to keep XP working in isolation from the Internet, and have a Terminal Services client running on a Server 2012 box to provide the Internet from a different session.

I remember my boss (CEO) coming into my office and asking me why I disabled USB/Floppy/Internet access to middle management and lower staff in the company.  The answer was increased security and 15% increase in productivity for my support department alone.  I even showed him the proxy logs for the past six months and what sites his middle management was accessing on a daily basis.  Well you know how I like snitching. 

You can have Windows 2000 or NT4 running as a client as long as you keep the out of date/unsupported platform on a private network.   People want internet can have internet on their phones and tablets if they pay for it and not connect it to the company network.

[pbj]

That kind of altering the environment to manage productivity always stops working after awhile.  That's established operations management science. 

Your employees WILL find other ways to while away hours on the company dime.  Just not in ways that are so easy for you to track from your office.

 

[ark_ader]

That kind of altering the environment to manage productivity always stops working after awhile.  That's established operations management science. 

Your employees WILL find other ways to while away hours on the company dime.  Just not in ways that are so easy for you to track from your office.

 

Absolutely that is why we have employee contracts and an effective HR department with a right to work policy.

[Dawgz Rule]

I remember my boss (CEO) coming into my office and asking me why I disabled USB/Floppy/Internet access to middle management and lower staff in the company.  The answer was increased security and 15% increase in productivity for my support department alone.  I even showed him the proxy logs for the past six months and what sites his middle management was accessing on a daily basis. 

Just begs for a reply.... This sounds so "old school IT like".   Who the ---fudgesicle--- are you to decide whether or not such access should be cut off?   I would let you go immediately if you did that kind of crap in my IT Department. 

[ark_ader]

I remember my boss (CEO) coming into my office and asking me why I disabled USB/Floppy/Internet access to middle management and lower staff in the company.  The answer was increased security and 15% increase in productivity for my support department alone.  I even showed him the proxy logs for the past six months and what sites his middle management was accessing on a daily basis. 

Just begs for a reply.... This sounds so "old school IT like".   Who the ---fudgesicle--- are you to decide whether or not such access should be cut off?   

I was just the guy who ran the IT department.  Needless to say that the policy was still enforced after I left, and being in such an unique position I had the last word on IT policy.  After all I wrote it and got it all approved beforehand by the board. 

If my harsh IT policies were adopted today in corporate America (or anywhere else for that matter) you would not have as much of a problem as you do today with regard to computer security.

I would let you go immediately if you did that kind of crap in my IT Department.

Can you say with hand on heart that your IT system is 100% protected against all threats?   

[Dawgz Rule]

If the policy was such a great policy, why not apply it to everyone instead of middle management and lower staff?   Second, if the CEO came to you to ask why, it would seem inherently obvious that he was unaware of a policy that you implemented across the organization.  Last, I would compare your checking of internet activity to that of HR picking through personnel files.    Sure, the company has the right to blah, blah, blah.  BUT, it is not the role of IT to monitor employee productivity.  It is the responsibility of the individual manager to do so. 

Your "security" answer is simply an excuse and there is not a system around that is 100% protected against all threats....except the PC that is sitting in the box, powered off. 

Interestingly enough, I also run an IT Department and have built my career on fixing the crap that IT Managers such as yourself implemented before I came on board.  I treat my end users and staff with respect and not like little children that need the heavy hand of IT to dictate where they can go on the internet.   What else?  Did you lock down the desktops so nobody can change their background?

One last question....Was your internet locked down too or were you above that? 

[ark_ader]

If the policy was such a great policy, why not apply it to everyone instead of middle management and lower staff?   Second, if the CEO came to you to ask why, it would seem inherently obvious that he was unaware of a policy that you implemented across the organization.  Last, I would compare your checking of internet activity to that of HR picking through personnel files.    Sure, the company has the right to blah, blah, blah.  BUT, it is not the role of IT to monitor employee productivity.  It is the responsibility of the individual manager to do so. 

Your "security" answer is simply an excuse and there is not a system around that is 100% protected against all threats....except the PC that is sitting in the box, powered off. 

Interestingly enough, I also run an IT Department and have built my career on fixing the crap that IT Managers such as yourself implemented before I came on board.  I treat my end users and staff with respect and not like little children that need the heavy hand of IT to dictate where they can go on the internet.   What else?  Did you lock down the desktops so nobody can change their background?

One last question....Was your internet locked down too or were you above that?

That was the funny part.  The CEO came in asking after he signed on the IT policy.  Obviously I wasn't going to rub his nose into it.  I gave him something to chew on.  What I left out of my previous post was the problem of leaks to our competitors.  I just plugged the holes.  Desktops are locked down too.  Nobody could change anything.  If an individual needed access, it required management approval, and Internet was read only via TS client.  I had the keys to the kingdom, as did upper management. KISS.  I put two thin clients in the lunch room for internet access.

In that job, the IT Manager was sitting up there with the Directors.  As it should be.  I bet you are on the opposite side of the spectrum. . Just kidding.

My predecessor methods was one of the reasons why I was brought in.  I moved the organization into the cloud,  sacked all the IT staff and outsourced it to India.  Got a bonus too!

[Barry Barcrest]

I'm not buying the whole software incompatibility stuff either.  I'll remind you guys that all of the stuff I make around here is made with Visual Studio 6.0... which was released in 1998.  Still runs on windows 8.   

Yeah it runs but even getting it installed isn't a straight out of the box thing you have to create a file so the install will run through. Then you have the whole UAC thing and that can create some really hard to catch bugs especially if you are dealing with local files.

User experience with Visual Studio 6 App.
Windows XP > Install > Launch Short Cut.
Windows 7/8 > Install (As Admin and Not To Program Files) > Change Shortcut To Launch as Admin > Launch App.

While things do work they require more work to make them do so.