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Author Topic: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab  (Read 13918 times)

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BadMouth

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Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« on: March 27, 2014, 11:28:01 am »
I didn't know such a thing existed: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CRUIS-039-N-USA-RED-CAR-DRIVING-SIMULATOR-MOTION-Arcade-Game-UPG-TO-EXOTICA-WORLD-/271432975688?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

Very strange looking cab....






I wonder if it has separate feedback output for this setup or just utilizes the wheel position and ffb?

twistedsymphony

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2014, 11:52:02 am »
I always felt these things looked like an oversized kiddy ride... really weird/rare cab to be sure.

Is this yours or did you just happen upon it and decide to share?

I remember seeing a thread on KLOV a while back with someone doing a restore on one of these.

BadMouth

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2014, 01:31:10 pm »
I always felt these things looked like an oversized kiddy ride... really weird/rare cab to be sure.

Is this yours or did you just happen upon it and decide to share?

I remember seeing a thread on KLOV a while back with someone doing a restore on one of these.

Not mine.  Just came across it while browsing ebay.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2014, 01:32:13 pm »
I thought I had at least seen em' all.  That's an odd one.  Look where the shifter is.  I wonder if it uses a special board.  (Damn, I want to work on mame drivers again... somebody save me.)

twistedsymphony

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2014, 01:42:37 pm »
...Damn, I want to work on mame drivers again...

What's stopping you?

Howard_Casto

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2014, 09:32:37 pm »
The mind numbing pain in the butt, the massive time sink and the fact that I don't even have a good rig built yet.  ;)

vandale

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2014, 11:11:05 pm »
The mind numbing pain in the butt, the massive time sink and the fact that I don't even have a good rig built yet.  ;)

I find them easier to build than a mame cab, reason being is if you use a Logitech wheel for example then there is no need to wire or build a complex control panel, hook up a jpac or jamma to USB. Pedals are simply a pot replacement etc.

My advice is grab a stand up cab and rip it apart, slap a LCD in with a Logitech wheel and core 2 PC, load the software and front end, away you go :)

Howard_Casto

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2014, 11:52:13 pm »
Heh, you obviously don't know where I live.  I'm in rural WV.  When cabs do come up for sale they are either over-priced or a 8 hour drive away.  I have to build almost everything from scratch unfortunately. 

The main issue right now is time and funds.  My main mame cab needs a new pc, so I probably need to do that first.  Then I'll have to buy a pc for the racing rig as well.  In terms of the other stuff (seat, wheel, ect) I've pretty much got it covered. 

So hey if anyone has suggestions on a budget pc let me know.  I guess it needs to be able to run super model and that's about as high end as it needs to be.  (Not particularly interested in high-end sims or other demanding pc games). 


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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2014, 10:25:50 am »
Heh, you obviously don't know where I live.  I'm in rural WV.  ....

WHAAAAAAAT?

Have you ever heard of Coin-Op Wearhouse? If not go check them out, they're in Maryland and they deliver to neighboring states:
https://www.facebook.com/coinopwarehouse

Follow their Facebook page, their prices are dirt cheap too.

they had a fully working NAOMI universal cab that sold for $475 the other day... I see them posting up Cruis'n USAs and Daytonas in the $300 range all the time.

A friend of mine picked up a broken Daytona 2 and a broken Initial D from them for $200 a piece last year.

Seriously, their deals are so good on more than one occasion I've considered driving all the way down from NH to pickup a cab from them.

... No joke, you live within a day's drive of arguably the best source of cabinets outside of California.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 10:49:56 am by twistedsymphony »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2014, 11:56:24 am »
I'm sure they deliver to neighboring states... for a price. 

I'm aware of them, like I said, cabs around here are either over-priced of a 8 hours drive away.  You've got to factor in either the cost of gas or the cost of delivery.  Either way those reasonable prices aren't quite so reasonable anymore.  That's one of the main reasons their prices are so low I guess... they are located in the middle of no where.

I think I would be more receptive to them if they got a real webpage.  Their facebook reads like stereo instructions.  ;)

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2014, 01:32:02 pm »
From what I've heard their "local" delivery rates are usually < $100 if they happen to be going though or near you area or you're willing to wait for them to go near your area.

Also they do have a website: http://www.coinopwarehouse.com/

The thing is when they get new machines in they post them up on Facebook as they unload them and the really good deals are usually claimed within a day... it's only if they don't sell right away that they get listed on the website.

it also doesn't hurt to call and ask how much they'd charge to deliver to your location and if they have any cheap driving cabs in stock.

----------

That's the thing about getting good deals on arcade machines, you need to watch listings like a hawk and be ready to buy at a moments notice. Good deals pop up everywhere you just have to be ready for when they do drop.

Personally I have an RSS feed pointed at the NH Craigslist with a few arcade related keywords... and it pops up on my browser's homepage, there aren't any machines listed in my state on CL that I don't know about...

Even still it'd be cheaper for me to drive the ~15 hours to coin-op warehouse and pick up one of those ~$300 cabs, pay for lodging for a night and drive back than it would for me to buy most of the machines listed locally.... and I live a hell of a lot further than you do.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 03:27:17 pm by twistedsymphony »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2014, 04:47:57 pm »
Fair enough, but I don't have a truck so it's a total pain in the butt if I have to go on a road trip for this stuff.  The website must be fairly new because the last time I checked they didn't have one... or at least it wasn't as nice as it is now.  I'll start looking.... thanks.

In regards to the racing cab though, I'll probably still build my own.  I'm about out of room so I'll probably have to make something sans monitor/front that I can just roll in front of the big screen.

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2014, 11:55:01 am »

skip to 2 minute mark to see the motion...enjoy the rockin soundtrack!

Paul Olson

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2014, 02:53:23 am »
I owned one of these for a while. I think the board is the same, just different dip settings. Howard, if you decide to work on the MAME driver, I still have the manuals for this. I am not sure it would translate to other hardware though. It uses 3 hydraulic actuators for the motion.

Xiaou2

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2014, 07:02:04 am »
Quote
It uses 3 hydraulic actuators for the motion.

 I Seriously Doubt that.

 Hydraulic's are used in heavy machinery, such as cranes and bulldozers.   They are expensive, slow, and often leak.  Messy, and difficult to repair.  They are not the optimal technology to put into an Arcade machine.   In all my years in the arcade, and as a collector, Ive Never seen one machine that used actual Hydraulics.

 Its usually either a direct drive motor(s), worm-gear motors,  or solenoids, or possibly - but less likely.. Magnetic Linear Actuators.

 It kills me every time I see someone call Out Run a Hydraulic driven cabinet.  Its not.  Its a motor that drives a worm gear, that turns a shaft..  that shaft pushes a lever, which causes the top assembly to lean left or right.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2014, 02:32:12 pm »
Manuals are always nice, so send em if you've got em.  I haven't had much luck with hydraulics in mame though.  Jurassic park, Rail Chase and a few of the other "bench" games use them and they all seem to need some sort of convoluted status board (I'm guessing to measure the angle of the incline because afaik rams don't have sensors for that stuff) that mame doesn't have emulated. 

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2014, 02:30:16 pm »
Quote
It uses 3 hydraulic actuators for the motion.

 I Seriously Doubt that.

 Hydraulic's are used in heavy machinery, such as cranes and bulldozers.   They are expensive, slow, and often leak.  Messy, and difficult to repair.  They are not the optimal technology to put into an Arcade machine.   In all my years in the arcade, and as a collector, Ive Never seen one machine that used actual Hydraulics.

 Its usually either a direct drive motor(s), worm-gear motors,  or solenoids, or possibly - but less likely.. Magnetic Linear Actuators.

 It kills me every time I see someone call Out Run a Hydraulic driven cabinet.  Its not.  Its a motor that drives a worm gear, that turns a shaft..  that shaft pushes a lever, which causes the top assembly to lean left or right.


back when I worked in arcade repair I remember quite a few of the larger motion machines using pneumatic actuators (I distinctly recall a Jet-Ski game that always used to break compressors until we "upgraded" to an external unit)

I have no idea what this machine uses but Pneumatic equipment looks a lot like hydraulics so I could see how someone might confuse the two. Easy to tell if it's pneumatic though as you'll generally hear the air-compressor firing off every few minutes.

Paul Olson

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2014, 04:02:33 pm »
All I remember is that you have to pump them full of grease. It has been a while since I have messed with it, and close to a year since I sold it. The manual just says linear actuator, but I haven't looked to see what type. The point was that any driver work done for this game would most likely only work for this specific game in this hardware. Even the later Cruis'n boards don't support this hardware.

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2014, 04:14:25 pm »
Yeah "pistons" as it were.  Linear actuators, hydraulic rams,  same animal, different species, but close enough.  ;)


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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2014, 11:34:21 am »
All I remember is that you have to pump them full of grease. It has been a while since I have messed with it, and close to a year since I sold it. The manual just says linear actuator, but I haven't looked to see what type. The point was that any driver work done for this game would most likely only work for this specific game in this hardware. Even the later Cruis'n boards don't support this hardware.

If the outputs were available you could theoretically map/script them to work with different motion cabs... the real question is how difficult is it to get those outputs an is it worth it for just one game.

Most emulated driving games (including Cruis'n if I'm not mistaken) don't even have steering wheel force feedback outputs available yet and pretty much any decent wheel you buy today supports it. So while it'd be cool to see the motion output available through emulation unless it ends up being super easy to implement I would think it'd be a low priority.

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2014, 12:51:22 pm »
They are not the same..   Not Even Close.

 
http://www.progressiveautomations.com/progressive-linear-actuators-introduction-part-a-40.aspx

 A linear act. is a worm gear (giant thick thread screw) or magnet driven device.

 As such, to read the position, it probably uses an Optical encoder, possibly with end of stroke switches.


 A Hydraulic Actuator, needs a fluid, similar to oil.   Fluid isnt compressible, so by values and pressure, you can raise and lower very
heavy things.   However, because its a fluid bases system..  you need a large set of tanks..  pumps..  and good seals.   Pumps wear and
fail.  Fluid leaks from seals.  Operating on them often means draining the fluid.   When they break / leak..  its going go everywhere.  As far as my best guess, that wouldnt be allowed in an arcade situation... especially the Mall arcades, where the public could slip on oil, fumes would cause issues, children could ingest it, clothing and or shoes could be ruined...etc.

 To Read the position of these, may be a lot more difficult.  In fact, its doubtful that most of them have precision readings.   Most Hydraulic stuff is Manually controlled..  and probably uses end of stroke switches at most.   Possibly a set of tank fill meters.   I dont know how else you could read these for exacting positions.

 
http://nuclearpowertraining.tpub.com/h1013v2/css/h1013v2_165.htm


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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2014, 02:13:33 pm »
Especially when it's not even accurate and the data he's given is decidedly one-sided towards his argument. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_actuator

Notice how linear actuator is a generic term for any piston that goes up and down, including hydraulic rams, compressed air, electro-magnetic actuators ect. 

So like I said, same family, different species. 

It's all irrelevant, because the point I was trying to make is that mame typically doesn't have the control board emulated.  So I can get data of when the actuator is being sent a up/down signal *maybe*  but the control pot or whatever mechanism used to determine what position the ram is in, must be gathered via the control pcb or something because I always get either garbage or nothing.  The two common ones on arcades are worm gear types and either  or compressed air/electric pistons, neither of which use stepper motors, so it's a bit hard for me to track them.  The games, in all honesty, might not even have a tracking system.  Much like a cnc, they might just count the turns, but without a stepped motor controlling them I don't see how.  Even worse some of the games just won't send the outputs without the control pcb present.  Most of the earlier sega stuff does... they don't seem to care much, but the newer games might bail. 

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2014, 02:57:53 pm »
... linear actuator is a generic term for any piston that goes up and down, including hydraulic rams, compressed air, electro-magnetic actuators ect. 

So like I said, same family, different species. 

Quoted for truth...
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 04:37:02 pm by twistedsymphony »

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2014, 05:52:34 pm »
Ok. Definitions have been sorted.  Links to references posted.

Please don't let this thread devolve into an argument that goes nowhere.

Any more useful info on the full motion Cruisn' USA cab is welcomed.

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Re: Full Motion Cruis'n USA cab
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2014, 02:34:32 am »
Especially when it's not even accurate and the data he's given is decidedly one-sided towards his argument. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_actuator

Notice how linear actuator is a generic term for any piston that goes up and down, including hydraulic rams, compressed air, electro-magnetic actuators ect. 

So like I said, same family, different species. 

It's all irrelevant, because the point I was trying to make is that mame typically doesn't have the control board emulated.  So I can get data of when the actuator is being sent a up/down signal *maybe*  but the control pot or whatever mechanism used to determine what position the ram is in, must be gathered via the control pcb or something because I always get either garbage or nothing.  The two common ones on arcades are worm gear types and either  or compressed air/electric pistons, neither of which use stepper motors, so it's a bit hard for me to track them.  The games, in all honesty, might not even have a tracking system.  Much like a cnc, they might just count the turns, but without a stepped motor controlling them I don't see how.  Even worse some of the games just won't send the outputs without the control pcb present.  Most of the earlier sega stuff does... they don't seem to care much, but the newer games might bail.

 If you read what I wrote, You might have found the relavant info that you ended up repeating anyways...

Quote
Much like a cnc, they might just count the turns, but without a stepped motor controlling them I don't see how.

 Outrun uses an electric motor, that drives a worm gear shaft. Theres no Piston, nor hydraulics, nor air compressor.
Motor drives are the most common of all arcade machines motion controllers.   Ive never seen any other type, and Ive been around the block.

 You do not need a stepper motor to keep track of motion.   You can use a simple optical wheel setup.   The game can calibrate the device to the furthest extremes on startup, using limit switches.  Then, the game can center the device by counting the optical disc sensor beams.   The number will always be the same, because the shaft isnt going to change in any way... and even if anything got messed up... the limit switches keep it from being a problem.  Worst comes to worst, and it realizes the assembly is broken, and turns itself off.

 Sega often used various motor speeds.  Not actual steppers.  Steppers of any real power and speed are generally very expensive.. Or, at least they were,  especially back 20+ yrs ago.   You would need a very high amperage power supply, that probably would cost +300$ alone... just for the needed juice to move a people around 24x7, for years, without breaking down.

 In order to know what your dealing with, you have to know the hardware end of things... not just the software side.
By knowing the basics of hardware, you can figure out the rest.  If your clueless to mechanical hardware.. then you will never understand the software signals functionality.

 Compressed air is extremely rare in any format, especially in the past.  Compressors are LOUD and pressurized tanks are dangerous.  Both to the patrons, and the service mechanics / operators.  They also make loud popping & hissing on release, as well as often leak air.  Air also doesnt have the power that hydraulics have.. so trying to move a heavy object with air pressure, isnt easy nor viable in an arcade machine.   A mere 60 seconds of play would be like 400 gallons of air.

 At best, you might use air compressors for some mechanical compressed air gun game, for lightweight targets that move... or the gun itself.   In modern use, its more for "puppets", like the robotic band at the old chuck-e-cheese locations. The noise made, is covered up by the loud music.. and those things have pretty much no mass, and are easily pivoted.  Unlike a dead-mass human of 200lbs.

 Using hydraulics, you have seal failures, leaks, and toxic substances.  If there are hydraulics from any time in that era, Id be very surprised.   Maybe on a full sized car version of Ridge Racer...  but I cant see it being used on that tiny Cruisn Cab.   Hydraulics of that magnitude, to move heavy people around,  would take up a lot of space in beefy assemblies and large reservoir tanks.

 Add to the fact that any computer controlled actuators, that border on CNC level of ability.. controlling precision speeds, positions, and accuracy... are/were going to be boat loads of cash.   This is why simple limit switches are used.

 Simple cheap motor.  Simple speed controller.  Simple on/off switches.
Very little space needed. Lots of power.  Easy to repair.  Reliable.

 I doubt you will find Any human-moving arcade game, powered by hydraulics, or air,  before 2k.  If any at all.