Polishing A Turd: Trying To Get A Old PC To Run Mame Faster

[404]

so an acquaintance dropped off a 15" POS (Point Of Sale!) system  to me some time ago with a busted touch membrane. The unit is not that dissimilar to one i had a while back. I removed the membrane and underneath was a nice glass lcd surface. The unit sports windows 98, a 1ghz celeron, i upgraded the ram to 1gb and found a nice 40gb ide 7200rpm drive. Considering this pc is generally thought of as ancient by today's standards, i figured i could try to resurrect this as something usable in a bartop down the road some time.

I am noticing a sizeable performance decrease on even the most simplistic of games running mame 0.106. I noticed even games like 1942, street fighter 2 and other generally easy to emulate games do not run at full speed without frameskip. I have only managed to improve performance by moving to an i686 optimize build of mame which only got me a few fps more. For example, street fighter II runs at about 50fps at best. With the i686 build, i get about 54 tops. We are talking games that would normally run just fine on 300-500mhz pentium era hardware.

 I have tried tinkering with a number of different presets in my mame.ini but so far I have gotten nowhere. Was hoping maybe an extra set of eyes with some classic mame experience can see what i am possibly doing wrong here. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Code: [Select]

### mame.ini ###

### Frontend Related ###

### Windows path and directory options ###
rompath                   C:\GAMES\MAME\ROMS
samplepath                samples
# inipath               <NULL> (not set)
cfg_directory             cfg
nvram_directory           nvram
memcard_directory         memcard
input_directory           inp
hiscore_directory       hi
state_directory           sta
artwork_directory         artwork
snapshot_directory        C:\GAMES\MAME\SNAPS
diff_directory            diff
ctrlr_directory           ctrlr
comment_directory         comments
cheat_file              cheat.dat

### Windows video options ###
autoframeskip             1
frameskip                 0
waitvsync                 0
triplebuffer              0
window                    0
ddraw                     0
direct3d                  1
hwstretch                 0
# screen                <NULL> (not set)
cleanstretch            none
resolution              auto
refresh                 0
scanlines               0
switchres               1
switchbpp               1
maximize                1
keepaspect              1
matchrefresh            0
syncrefresh             0
throttle                1
full_screen_gamma       1.00
frames_to_run           0
effect                  none
screen_aspect           4:3
# mngwrite              <NULL> (not set)

### Windows Direct3D 2D video options ###
zoom                    1
d3dtexmanage            1
d3dfilter               0
d3dfeedback             0
d3dscan                 100
d3deffectrotate         0
d3dprescale             3
d3deffect               none
# d3dcustom             <NULL> (not set)
# d3dexpert             <NULL> (not set)

### Windows misc options ###
sleep                   1
rdtsc                   0
priority                0

### Windows sound options ###
audio_latency             1
# wavwrite              <NULL> (not set)

### Input device options ###
mouse                     0
joystick                  0
lightgun                  0
dual_lightgun             0
offscreen_reload          0
steadykey                 0
keyboard_leds           1
led_mode                ps/2
a2d_deadzone            0.300000
# ctrlr                 <NULL> (not set)
paddle_device             keyboard
adstick_device            keyboard
pedal_device              keyboard
dial_device               keyboard
trackball_device          keyboard
lightgun_device           keyboard
digital                 none

### Mame CORE video options ###
norotate                  0
ror                       0
rol                       0
autoror                   0
autorol                   0
flipx                     0
flipy                     0
gamma                     1.00
brightness                1.00
pause_brightness          0.65

### Mame CORE vector game options ###
antialias                 1
translucency            1
beam                      1.00
flicker                   0.00
intensity               1.500000

### Mame CORE sound options ###
samplerate                22050
samples                   1
sound                     1
volume                    0

### Mame CORE misc options ###
validate                0
artwork                 0
use_backdrops             1
use_overlays              1
use_bezels                1
artwork_crop              0
artwork_resolution      0
cheat                     1
debug                     0
# debugscript           <NULL> (not set)
# playback              <NULL> (not set)
# record                <NULL> (not set)
log                       0
oslog                     0
skip_gameinfo             1
bios                   
# state                 <NULL> (not set)
autosave                  0

### Configuration options ###
readconfig                1
verbose                   0


[Howard_Casto]

I'm not sure if this will help but... turn off direct3d and turn on directdraw. 

Does the pc have a video card?  If so hwstretch needs to be enabled as well. 


106 is probably your problem unfortunately.  Current builds of mame are optimized to run well on modern hardware, which means older hardware under-performs.

[arquillos]

Hi!
   why not updating the OS to a win7 32 bits? It will run as least as fast as your Win98 and it will give you better support and performance.
   Your specs are fine for a Win 7 32bits OS.

[404]

I'm not sure if this will help but... turn off direct3d and turn on directdraw. 

Does the pc have a video card?  If so hwstretch needs to be enabled as well. 


106 is probably your problem unfortunately.  Current builds of mame are optimized to run well on modern hardware, which means older hardware under-performs.

Unfortunately i have never been able to get direct draw working full screen with 106

the unit has an on board sis chipset which supports directX.

106 is the last version of mame that supported the old graphics system. 107 was the first official build to begin using the new rendering engine according to the readme.

I can actually play just about every other emulator supported in windows 98 just fine except for mame. I have nes, snes, gameboy, gameboy color, mastersystem, genesis and 32x loaded on to this rig. The only game that gives me similar sizable lag is knuckles chaotix for 32x

Hi!
   why not updating the OS to a win7 32 bits? It will run as least as fast as your Win98 and it will give you better support and performance.
   Your specs are fine for a Win 7 32bits OS.

even if it worked, it would take forever to load up the os. I get an 40 second boot time with windows 98. 18 seconds of that is this tired slow bios. Which means my shelled version of windows 98 running mamewah takes only 22 seconds to boot from this diminutive drive.

thanks for the responses so far

[BadMouth]

I've only ever bothered with early 80's classics on that old of a system.
You probably want to go even older than v.106,
maybe even back to v.34 (I think it's either .34 or .36) which all the cell phone ports are based on.

The last comparable thing I did was a 600?mhz Celeron running v.80
It ran Outrun, but I don't think I tried anything much newer.

You might try a different emulator like Final Burn or Raine.
Those aren't as concerned with doing things "the MAME way" and use hacks to improve performance.

[Malenko]

even a crummy videocard should help lighten the load for the CPU and free up the RAM to not be used for the video, dunno if thats even feasible in a PoS PC .  Guess overclocking the CPU is out of consideration?

[pbj]

Boot into DOS, run MAME .36

 

[BadMouth]

Boot into DOS, run MAME .36

 

Audio drivers always seem to be the PITA with that.
People who have gone that route usually end up having to add an old soundblaster card.

[pbj]

Yep, the path of least resistance is probably to get a pile of PCI soundblaster cards.  I used to strip them out of all the computers I surplussed and they'd bounce off a truck into my closet.

 

[404]

I've only ever bothered with early 80's classics on that old of a system.
You probably want to go even older than v.106,
maybe even back to v.34 (I think it's either .34 or .36) which all the cell phone ports are based on.

The last comparable thing I did was a 600?mhz Celeron running v.80
It ran Outrun, but I don't think I tried anything much newer.

You might try a different emulator like Final Burn or Raine.
Those aren't as concerned with doing things "the MAME way" and use hacks to improve performance.

thing is, i have run similar hardware of the era and can get these games to run with zero issues.

even a crummy videocard should help lighten the load for the CPU and free up the RAM to not be used for the video, dunno if thats even feasible in a PoS PC .  Guess overclocking the CPU is out of consideration?

Unfortunately its on board. It's an integrated sis chipset but it does support directx and runs in direct3d mode just fine. There are no expansion ports on this thing.

Boot into DOS, run MAME .36

 

I ran DOS on it!

I gutted the unit and used a separate psu to power the cdrom drive (the onboard psu is less than 100 watts) then booted into spystyle's dos disc. It works great and there are DOS audio drivers for the on board sound chip on this unit. Problem is very much like my directdraw problem above, I cannot get it to output on this unit at full screen.

[pbj]

Did you try MAME 36?   

[404]

Did you try MAME 36?   

0.100

[pbj]

Try this version:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/jv2o5a

 

[hsr]

Problem is very much like my directdraw problem above, I cannot get it to output on this unit at full screen.

I had a similar problem some seven years ago (almost to the day).  See this thread/post.  Needed to update my directX beyond what ships with Win98SE.

[hsr]

I kept this bit of instrution from that experience:

win1-0-1: How do I determine the version of Direct X installed on my computer, or find a current version.

To determine the current version of DirectX installed on your computer, follow these steps:
1. Click on START | FIND | FILES OR FOLDERS.
2. In the Named dialog box, type in "dxdiag.exe" (without the quotes) and then click on "Find Now".
3. In the list of files, double click on the "Dxdiag.exe" file located in the c:\windows\system folder.
4. Listed at the bottom of the Help tab, note the version of DirectX installed.
NOTE: If the Dxdiag.exe file is not found, DirectX version 3.0 or earlier is installed on your computer.
To obtain DirectX9c, go to:

Select your operating system and follow Microsoft’s directions.

[404]

I kept this bit of instrution from that experience:

win1-0-1: How do I determine the version of Direct X installed on my computer, or find a current version.

To determine the current version of DirectX installed on your computer, follow these steps:
1. Click on START | FIND | FILES OR FOLDERS.
2. In the Named dialog box, type in "dxdiag.exe" (without the quotes) and then click on "Find Now".
3. In the list of files, double click on the "Dxdiag.exe" file located in the c:\windows\system folder.
4. Listed at the bottom of the Help tab, note the version of DirectX installed.
NOTE: If the Dxdiag.exe file is not found, DirectX version 3.0 or earlier is installed on your computer.
To obtain DirectX9c, go to:

Select your operating system and follow Microsoft’s directions.

thanks for the tips. i was running DX8 and found a link to 9C. I also found updated drivers for the video chipset. Unfortunately, none of them helped the lag issues. I then went on to attempt to get mame to run properly with directdraw and unfortunately, that didn't go well either. 

[404]

got a nice bump in performance by disabling direct3D texture management. Unfortunately that stops most neo geo games from running for some reason; Giving me a Video init failed message at the command prompt.

 Still haven't managed to get directdraw to output full screen.

[baritonomarchetto]

Are you running it on LCD or an Arcade monitor?

Go the arcade way, forcing the videocard to output at 15KHz. People are not generally aware that running those games at the original resolution (vertical/horizontal lines AND refresh rate) not only gives an arcade perfect feeling, but also speeds up the emulation 

[404]

Are you running it on LCD or an Arcade monitor?

Go the arcade way, forcing the videocard to output at 15KHz. People are not generally aware that running those games at the original resolution (vertical/horizontal lines AND refresh rate) not only gives an arcade perfect feeling, but also speeds up the emulation 

it's an all in one point of sales unit. its basically is just an lcd touch screen with the pc built right into the back.

[baritonomarchetto]

Probably that's your problem man. Try running it in windowed mode and see if it's faster (i would bet it) 

[404]

Probably that's your problem man. Try running it in windowed mode and see if it's faster (i would bet it) 

if i eventually wanted to use this in a cab, why on earth would i want to run this in windowed mode? 

[pbj]

Why aren't you booting into DOS?

[404]

Why aren't you booting into DOS?

As i already mentioned above, this rig will boot dos and boot mame just fine. It just refuses to display the game at full screen no mater what i do.

[hsr]

What does the option "3" equate to on your d3dprescale setting?

[pbj]

Use monitor controls to stretch image?

[spoot]

How far "off" is it?  Did they simply show smaller picture with overscan due to cabinet it was in?

[hsr]

Use monitor controls to stretch image?

I tried that in the thread linked in my post above.  Would work on the specific game I was in at the time, but not for other, the front end or WIN98 that I was running.  Meaning, the monitor controls changed the display picture so much, half or more of the image was off the screen in applications outside of a specific game.

[Malenko]

Why aren't you booting into DOS?

As i already mentioned above, this rig will boot dos and boot mame just fine. It just refuses to display the game at full screen no mater what i do.

manually set the resolution in the command line?

[404]

What does the option "3" equate to on your d3dprescale setting?

i thought prescale was an integer setting? I used 'full' as well. gave me the same result.

Use monitor controls to stretch image?

This monitor has none 

How far "off" is it?  Did they simply show smaller picture with overscan due to cabinet it was in?

in dos i only use up just over 1/3 of the entire screen. Using win98 and directdraw it acts differently depending on the game. Most of the time i tested cps1 and 2 games along with neo geo games to test just how much fps i got out of the game. Using directdraw, aspect ratio and hardware stretching, I can get about 70% of the screen filled at best.

manually set the resolution in the command line?

I tinkered with that lightly but it still won't give me a full screen image even if i force 640x480x16 in all games.


I'm leaning towards gpu issues at this point as hardware stretching doesn't seem to give a good result and disabling direct3D texture management gives me a very nice bump in performance at the cost of many games not initializing video at all. Just can't seem to find a workaround for it though.

[pbj]

Break out the hammer, this project is done.

[404]

Break out the hammer, this project is done.

overclocked the ram to pc133. Got a huge increase in performance. Street Fighter II and many games of the early 90's era run at 60fps now. Mortal Kombat and Killer instinct are so far the only exceptions i have found.  Most of the time they don't run past 12fps. They never ran that great on this era hardware any way.  Not worried at all if a handful of games don't run as expected.

At this point, i can't expect to work miracles on this machine.  I have found that machines of this era run far more capable than this unit but at the same time i don't think throwing this unit out is justified.  Found a pentium III 1ghz and some pc 133. Going to gut this unit again in the next few days and throw in some new hardware. Wish i could find a decent copper socket 370 heatsink as this rig already runs pretty hot.

[baritonomarchetto]

if i eventually wanted to use this in a cab, why on earth would i want to run this in windowed mode? 

It's only for test pourposes

If in windowed mode runs faster, you can increase the speed by toying with the resolution