What should I avoid?

[JeffferysGhost]

First post here(Happy New Year BTW). So, I'm planning my MAME machine, and this will be on a very low budget. There are plenty of desk-top computers available on Craigslist, for $80 to $100. Is there anything I should avoid? Do operating systems matter, and , if I want the monitor to power up, when the PC is turned on, is there something special to look for?

Thanks,
JeffferysGhost

[Darkjudge1]

Well, some of this will be up to you and what type of games you want to run. Personally, I managed to nab a dual core and monitor in exchange for some help I was giving someone.

FYI, sticky for FAQ did have a link to your answers: http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=14155

Personal opinion: it depends on your level of technical skill and how much you want to fiddle with it. MAME has pretty low requirements if you're just looking to run the classics (Pentium 4, 2-3 Ghz... and even that might be overkill.) If you want something like... Tekken Tag, then it's going to be a bit more in the hardware department. I'm sure I'll get someone yelling at me over this, but I don't like Vista personally. Windows 7 and XP I've had good luck with. (I've been tinkering with MAME since .34, if that gives you any idea. I'm fairly experienced with the software/computer hardware stuff, not so much with the cab building/wiring stuff... which is why I'm here!)  That's the short version. Much longer version is here:

As to the last question, I know there's some power strips that do that for you (see ultimarc.com or groovygamegear.com ... at least I think one of those suppliers carry it.). That to me looks like a dead simple option. 

[PL1]

Is there anything I should avoid? Do operating systems matter, and , if I want the monitor to power up, when the PC is turned on, is there something special to look for?

Welcome aboard, JeffferysGhost.

Things to avoid - Vista systems and slow clock speeds.   

IIRC, some Dell systems are hard to tap into the power button (ribbon cable) but there are posts that show how to work around it.

For monitors, check the menus to see if there is a setting for power-on resume(?), if not:
1. Plug it in
2. Turn it on
3. Unplug it
4. Plug it back in
-- Does it power on automatically?

Also check monitor viewing angles, especially for cocktail builds.

The power strip you're referring to is called a  "Smart Strip" -- IMHO spend a bit more and get one with the sensitivity adjustment or make your own using a 12v relay.

IIRC one guy killed his CRT because his non-adjustable strip was switching on and off all night long like a car's turn signal -- the passive current draw of his system was right at the edge of triggering the strip.


Scott

[ark_ader]

Avoid the Raspberry Pi.

(Happy New Year too)

[JeffferysGhost]

Thanks for the responses, hmmm... Al the craigslist computers seem to be Vista, the games I'm going for are really vintage, like Space Invaders and Asteroids, but I'm sure once I get into it, that list will become more diverse (my kids think those vintage arcade games are the "coolest things ever").

[ark_ader]

Thanks for the responses, hmmm... Al the craigslist computers seem to be Vista, the games I'm going for are really vintage, like Space Invaders and Asteroids, but I'm sure once I get into it, that list will become more diverse (my kids think those vintage arcade games are the "coolest things ever").

Just pick yourself up a cheap xbox, soft mod it and run CoinOPS.  If it is just the classics, it is a real solution that should cost you $15-$50 depending where you get your Xbox.  Want to add some Joysticks and make a cab?  Buy two Kades, but your costs will increase accordingly.  There are plenty of examples on this site.

[BadMouth]

Some of the processor hogs in MAME(90's 3D games) benefit greatly from a 64 bit OS, but the vintage games you seem to be interested in will run on just about anything.
If you plan to run Hyperspin for the front end, you'll need a fairly powerful PC.

I'm running Vista in my latest cab because I had a copy and I wanted Directx10 for newer pc games and emulators (XP is limited to Dx9). 
After turning "User Account Control" off to get rid of all the nagging, I don't see where it has any shortcomings for emulation other than not being able to hide the windows bootup completely.  With XP and Win7, there are ways to hide everything so you'd never even know your cab was running windows.

It doesn't take much of a PC to run the classics, but my focus would still be on getting the fastest processor for the cheapest price.
If I was only interested in the early 80's classics, I'd hold out for something free ($20-30 at most). 
If you pay $100 for an old PC and then the hard drive or power supply dies, you'll have sunk enough money into it that you could have been halfway to a brand new PC.

I've never seen a PC monitor that didn't automatically turn on and off with the PC.
For your speakers and other accessories, the smart strip is the way to go.

[pbj]

Europeans
Yellow snow

[JeffferysGhost]

Thanks Badmouth, I never considered free (just a few years ago, I grew away a perfect "donor" computer). I'll check there next! And I do have an old xbox 360, I'll have to check into that saw well.

[paigeoliver]

Avoid all of the following, they either ruin your project, give terrible results for the money or needlessly complicate things.

Raspberry pi.
Running mame on a console instead of a computer.
Running mame on anything that isn't a windows computer.
Widescreen displays and flat panel displays. Exception is large pedestal type cabinets, in which case you won't have a lot of other practical options.
Angled joysticks.
4 player control panel.
Anything from X-Arcade
Console emulators past the Genesis (consoles with shoulder buttons and analog controls generally don't map well onto arcade controls, there are of course some notable exceptions).
The vast majority of the games that have CHD files (many perform poorly even on powerful systems and the vast majority of them require specialty analog controls that you won't have).

And finally.....

Cabinet design.

Control panel shouldn't poke out past the front of the cabinet more than a couple inches, nor should the control panel top overhang the control panel box by more than about an inch.

Games don't have internal frames made out of 2x4's. The sides are also the load bearing part of the design.

2 piece design on the main cabinet, worthless every time. It makes the cabinet harder to build, heavier and weaker. The most common design used for this leaves a super awkward top section that has most of the cabinet weight and is harder to move than it would have been if you didn't take it apart. If it can fit through a doorway in one piece than there is no reason for it to be in 2 pieces. I rarely go a week without moving a game up or down the steps by myself, usually more than once a week. When moving day comes just get some more muscle on the thing and move it. It is no harder to deal with than your fridge or washing machine. If ease of movement is really a priority then build out of plywood instead of particle and make sure the monitor is easy to pull.

[mgb]

I say, Paigeoliver summed everything up right there.
I 1000% agree with that.
Well said

[Senhor Computador]

Hardware wise , if you want my setup i found it to be the cheapest / most powerful, but i got lucky on the 775 motherboard as i found it in the junk, fixed it and started from there.

Specs:

P5QL-PRO Socket 775
E8400 (20€ ish) almost same performance as a Q6600 and i am not joking it's less than half the price, check ebay
4gb DDR i think 5€ each GB
250GB Hard Disk, any old HD will do you can even stack HD's like old 60 and 80 gb hard disks , fill it with roms...
Ati HD4890 Was 45€

So as you can see, very cheap setup if you pay 30€ or 40€ for the motherboard and 15 or 20 for an used case with power supply, you can get the same setup as mine for about 100€

[Dawgz Rule]

Avoid asking for advice and then summarily dismissing all of it.  Other than that, I would say Paige is on the money.

[yotsuya]

Avoid asking for advice and then summarily dismissing all of it.  Other than that, I would say Paige is on the money.

+1

Also, don't get defensive if the advice doesn't mesh with your vision.

[ChanceKJ]

Also: Don't directly ask me for advice.

I will return with some sort of nonsensical gibberish that May or may not include a Simpsons reference, or my 1998 highschool locker combination. My stories just trail off and die like a hobo lost in the Alaskan wilderness. ...I think it had a 12 in it.

Oh, don't be afraid to use the search feature, or google. Seriously, I had an issue with the GUI on my FrontEnd I'm building, and I fought with it for like 2 weeks off and on. It was STUPID. Did one quick google search and instantly felt like a tool for all the time I wasted.

[Unstupid]

avoid building anything that resembles something on this website: http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/

[yotsuya]

Oh, don't be afraid to use the search feature, or google. Seriously, I had an issue with the GUI on my FrontEnd I'm building, and I fought with it for like 2 weeks off and on. It was STUPID. Did one quick google search and instantly felt like a tool for all the time I wasted.

At least you tried, bro. I'll give you credit for trying to figure it out.

[ChanceKJ]

...it definitely had a 12 in it.

[deadmoney5]

Avoid all of the following, they either ruin your project, give terrible results for the money or needlessly complicate things.

And finally.....

Cabinet design.

Control panel shouldn't poke out past the front of the cabinet more than a couple inches, nor should the control panel top overhang the control panel box by more than about an inch.Games don't have internal frames made out of 2x4's. The sides are also the load bearing part of the design.2 piece design on the main cabinet, worthless every time. It makes the cabinet harder to build, heavier and weaker. The most common design used for this leaves a super awkward top section that has most of the cabinet weight and is harder to move than it would have been if you didn't take it apart. If it can fit through a doorway in one piece than there is no reason for it to be in 2 pieces. I rarely go a week without moving a game up or down the steps by myself, usually more than once a week. When moving day comes just get some more muscle on the thing and move it. It is no harder to deal with than your fridge or washing machine. If ease of movement is really a priority then build out of plywood instead of particle and make sure the monitor is easy to pull.

You explained my cab   and you are correct with every word

[jdbailey1206]

One thing you want to avoid Ghost is haste.  Don't be in a gigantic hurry to get it done.  Take your time measure twice and cut once...   Remember if you are going to do a MAME machine you can always enjoy playing games on the computer while the cabinet itself is still being worked on.  I have heard of guys completing their cabinets in three months and some I have heard taking up to three years to complete.  Don't get frustrated.  It's all a learning experience but it's one that should be enjoyed.  And don't forget to share your build.  You would be amazed at how much everyone here is willing to share their knowledge when it comes to your build.  Good luck and welcome to the forums.

[Endaar]

Couple comments and some points I'm going to disagree with...

There's nothing inherently wrong with Vista. What you DO want is a 64-bit OS, and the realities of driver availability mean XP is not a viable option for 64-bit. If I were building a system now, yeah, I'd use Win 7, but that wasn't out when I built my cab and thus I'm running Vista; I've yet to see any reason to upgrade. Point being if you have access to a Vista license, don't feel compelled to spend money on Win 7.

As for the system itself...if you can afford it, you are much better off with a Core 2 Duo instead of an older P4. An E8400/8500/8600 will run a lot of games in MAME (notably the Playstation-based games like Tekken 3) that the P4 will not. This stuff was in mainstream Dell business PCs 3-4 years ago, so there's no shortage of them refurbished. Look for a Dell OptiPlex 780 if you want to go that route.

I also disagree about avoiding flat-panels. Without starting a holy war, it really comes down to if you want the most authentic graphic experience possible or are willing to trade-off a little of that for much greater convenience and flexibility. I suppose I'm not a purist, but using a MAME filter my LCD looks authentic enough that I've never once regretted going with it instead of a CRT.

In any event, good luck with your project. There's a ton of info on these boards, and a lot of experienced (much more than I am) people.

Endaar

[paigeoliver]

  I have heard of guys completing their cabinets in three months and some I have heard taking up to three years to complete.

About 10 years ago at lunchtime on a friday before a saturday game auction I decided I wanted to build a machine for the auction. Started with nothing and the scratchbuilt cabinet was dropped off fully working at the game auction 9 am the next morning.