New Guy with Questions

[Darkjudge1]

So, because I don't have any woodworking tools beyond a screwdriver, hammer and a power drill I've elected to go with this cabinet:

http://www.mameroom.com/Products_Cocktail3_Kit.asp

Part of the reason for this is because of the horizontal set of controls in addition to the traditional cocktail controls. However, I'm curious... has anyone been able to modify any of the pre-drilled holes for a trackball? Would that be necessary to add a spinner?

EDIT: Curious, did anyone try mounting a 19 in LCD widescreen in one of these? I'm trying to decide between that a 17 in CRT that I have.

[thatpurplestuff]

I'm not sure you'd want to modify the panel(s) to use a trackball, you could just cut a new one with minimal tools... honestly modifying those existing pieces would probably be harder skill-wise and more expensive than just cutting your own.  This way you can still use the pre-made kit and you'd only have to buy a small piece of MDF to replace the existing control panel(s).

To make your own panel you would need two things for your drill... a hole saw for the trackball hole and a forstner bit (or spade bit) for the buttons/joystick.  Most spinners fit in the same hole size as standard buttons, so adding a spinner shouldn't be a problem for you.

[mgb]

Doesn't look like there'd be room for a trackball.
A spinner can fit in a button hole.

You're best off with a 19" 4:3 if possible

[thatpurplestuff]

Doesn't look like there'd be room for a trackball.
A spinner can fit in a button hole.

You're best off with a 19" 4:3 if possible

That's a great point, I didn't even consider the space needed underneath the CP for a trackball.  If you are able to fit a trackball, it's gonna be tight.

[Darkjudge1]

Doesn't look like there'd be room for a trackball.
A spinner can fit in a button hole.

You're best off with a 19" 4:3 if possible

Sadly, those are my existing monitors and I don't think I'd want to buy a third just for this. I'm leaning toward the CRT just because of the viewing angle. The only reason I could see using the CRT would be if I were doing something like split screen (which kind of defeats the purpose of the 3rd control panel.) or strictly cocktail. Then again, I'm not sure this is the right cab if that's the case as the screen might not fit properly without some adjustments...

So, spinner a yes, trackball probably not, unless I add a fourth panel. Hrm... Think I'd like the spinner and trackball on its own panel now that I think about it. This is what I get for trying to make a super cab. 

Okay, another stupid question: Let's say I setup the CRT where the monitor controls are facing the long panel, but for cocktail games, I have MAME use cocktail mode... would that damage the CRT? I'd think you could get away with that for the LCD, but it's been too long since I've worked with a CRT to know what the rules are. (Yeah, I tried to search this out, but I couldn't find a way to phrase my question and I'm probably overlooking something obvious.)

[PL1]

You may want to look at this part of the FAQ for some more topics to consider and a logical progression for the design process.

MAME can rotate the image however you want on a per-game basis.

You can set up Mortal Kombat so the players are on the monitor controls side, but they move to a side panel for Arkanoid or Tempest.

Press TAB (menu), select the Video Options Menu, and have fun.   


Scott

[Darkjudge1]

Scott: Thanks for the link. I had come to similar conclusions. I'm tempted just to leave it with the joysticks.

Speaking of, anyone here use the Magstick plus? Any thoughts on that versus a traditional 4/8 way restrictor?

[EMDB]

Scott: Thanks for the link. I had come to similar conclusions. I'm tempted just to leave it with the joysticks.

Speaking of, anyone here use the Magstick plus? Any thoughts on that versus a traditional 4/8 way restrictor?

If you want to play 4 and 8 way games together it's undoable to quickly switch the restrictor plate from the inside of a control panel. Switching the magstick plus from the top is very easy. You must like the non-micro switch stick though. I do. But after playing a while I got annoyed determining which setting to select for every individual game. Especially when having guests over. So I switched to the (also micro switch-less) U360 which is switched automatically from software depending on the selected game...

[paigeoliver]

I don't mean to sound like a downer, but ordering an expensive cabinet kit designed for a 19" crt (It is basically a modified version of the Pac-Man cocktail), and then putting in a 19" lcd widescreen or an undersized 17" crt is a great way to throw $500 down the drain before you even get started. Everything will look wrong on the widescreen (which is also too small, as a widescreen has less total screen size at 19" than a 4:3 display is. While a 17" crt monitor is roughly 3" too small for the cabinet. Pc monitors and arcade monitors are not measured the same way. The 17" pc crt is about 3" smaller than the 19" arcade crt that cabinet is designed for.

You should be able to get a 21" pc monitor (which should shoehorn in if decased as the tube is only a half inch bigger than a 19" arcade monitor tube) on craigslist for all of $25.

Any reason you are starting with a cocktail and not an upright? The cocktail eats like 3 times as much floor space as an upright and it is pretty easy to find an upright cabinet with no game in it for $100 or less to repaint and use.

So, because I don't have any woodworking tools beyond a screwdriver, hammer and a power drill I've elected to go with this cabinet:

http://www.mameroom.com/Products_Cocktail3_Kit.asp

Part of the reason for this is because of the horizontal set of controls in addition to the traditional cocktail controls. However, I'm curious... has anyone been able to modify any of the pre-drilled holes for a trackball? Would that be necessary to add a spinner?

EDIT: Curious, did anyone try mounting a 19 in LCD widescreen in one of these? I'm trying to decide between that a 17 in CRT that I have.

[Darkjudge1]

paigeoliver: Short version is... the cocktail is my personal preference. Yes, it'd be nice to have an upright, but the cocktail to me is a bit more practical. Though I'm curious, what would you see as the drawback to a 19 in widescreen LCD, or am I correct in thinking that part of the image will be cut off/viewing angle will be an issue?

[paigeoliver]

paigeoliver: Short version is... the cocktail is my personal preference. Yes, it'd be nice to have an upright, but the cocktail to me is a bit more practical. Though I'm curious, what would you see as the drawback to a 19 in widescreen LCD, or am I correct in thinking that part of the image will be cut off/viewing angle will be an issue?

I have owned several hundred games, cocktail are the most practical machines to store, otherwise not so much. But I certainly understand wanting one. I have owned quite a few.

Several issues, the first is aspect ratio, either the game doesn't use the whole monitor or it is stretched out. Viewing angle can be an issue. Older games generally don't look good on LCD monitors because they are far too crisp, although some of the mame options can hide that. The last one is a pretty big one, display/input lag. Emulation has a native display/input lag of 1 frame per second. A crt has effectively no input lag at all. However an LCD will have an input lag of as much as 3 frames per second. Additionally it isn't all that uncommon to have to turn on triple buffering or other special video options in mame to combat image tearing on the LCD, which injects even more display lag.

[mgb]

Again,
Paigeoliver's advice is sound, practical and true

[mgb]

Scott: Thanks for the link. I had come to similar conclusions. I'm tempted just to leave it with the joysticks.

Speaking of, anyone here use the Magstick plus? Any thoughts on that versus a traditional 4/8 way restrictor?

If you want to play 4 and 8 way games together it's undoable to quickly switch the restrictor plate from the inside of a control panel. Switching the magstick plus from the top is very easy. You must like the non-micro switch stick though. I do. But after playing a while I got annoyed determining which setting to select for every individual game. Especially when having guests over. So I switched to the (also micro switch-less) U360 which is switched automatically from software depending on the selected game...

Not sure if I missed something here but the mag stick plus does use a conventional restricter. It's just that it uses a square restrictor that can be turned for blocking diagonals.
It is not a micro switch less stick though. The magnet part is only for centering rather than using a spring

[Unstupid]

paigeoliver: Short version is... the cocktail is my personal preference. Yes, it'd be nice to have an upright, but the cocktail to me is a bit more practical. Though I'm curious, what would you see as the drawback to a 19 in widescreen LCD, or am I correct in thinking that part of the image will be cut off/viewing angle will be an issue?

I have owned several hundred games, cocktail are the most practical machines to store, otherwise not so much. But I certainly understand wanting one. I have owned quite a few.

Several issues, the first is aspect ratio, either the game doesn't use the whole monitor or it is stretched out. Viewing angle can be an issue. Older games generally don't look good on LCD monitors because they are far too crisp, although some of the mame options can hide that. The last one is a pretty big one, display/input lag. Emulation has a native display/input lag of 1 frame per second. A crt has effectively no input lag at all. However an LCD will have an input lag of as much as 3 frames per second. Additionally it isn't all that uncommon to have to turn on triple buffering or other special video options in mame to combat image tearing on the LCD, which injects even more display lag.

Not to mention, a 19" widescreen is physically smaller vertically than a 19" 4x3 screen.  If you want to fill the hole you'd have to go with a 23" or 24" widescreen which would roughly have the same vertical height as a 19" 4x3 screen

[ark_ader]

So, because I don't have any woodworking tools beyond a screwdriver, hammer and a power drill I've elected to go with this cabinet:

http://www.mameroom.com/Products_Cocktail3_Kit.asp

Part of the reason for this is because of the horizontal set of controls in addition to the traditional cocktail controls. However, I'm curious... has anyone been able to modify any of the pre-drilled holes for a trackball? Would that be necessary to add a spinner?

EDIT: Curious, did anyone try mounting a 19 in LCD widescreen in one of these? I'm trying to decide between that a 17 in CRT that I have.

Excellent choice!    I'd love to have a cocktail build some day.  Haruman makes some impressive cocktail cabinets at a really good price.  How about mounting your track ball to the side of the CP and a spinner on the other?  17" seems large enough for a screen.

[drventure]

Scott: Thanks for the link. I had come to similar conclusions. I'm tempted just to leave it with the joysticks.
Speaking of, anyone here use the Magstick plus? Any thoughts on that versus a traditional 4/8 way restrictor?

If you want to play 4 and 8 way games together it's undoable to quickly switch the restrictor plate from the inside of a control panel. Switching the magstick plus from the top is very easy. You must like the non-micro switch stick though. I do. But after playing a while I got annoyed determining which setting to select for every individual game. Especially when having guests over. So I switched to the (also micro switch-less) U360 which is switched automatically from software depending on the selected game...

EMDB's right about the U360. They're more expensive, but unless you're +very+ concerned about truly authentic feel, they're just sooo damn convenient that they are tough to beat in my book. I used 2 magsticks and 2 u360s for my 4p panel, I like the feel of the magsticks fine, but the u360s are just way more flexible, while still feeling perfectly acceptable to me. but I'm no authenticity stickler.

[Darkjudge1]

Thanks all for the advice.You've definitely given me some food for thought.

Paige: So, if it came down to the choice of CRT vs LCD, sounds like the CRT would be the winner, but tradeoff would be a smaller screen size. Okay, fair enough.
Unstupid: Ah, thank you. That's a good visual. Though I'd imagine part of that screen gets cut off vertically.
MGB: Put it this way: I spent about $50 on the icade and didn't like it because the microswitches were just so stinking LOUD and clicky. and the buttons were a little stiff. But the x-arcade stick isn't bad. It's close, but there's a minor annoyance of hearing the buttons. I'm getting the feeling that leaf switches were more common with the arcades I played in as I don't remember either of those issues. (For reference, my favorite games were made from about 1979-1993. (And as of late, a lot of those are Williams games.) That's not to say I'm entirely opposed to a microswitch, but something as quiet or quieter than the x-arcade solo. (I can already see Paige laughing at the classless noob over here.  ) I am of the opinion that joysticks should not make much noise if any.. (Yeah... don't even get me started on the Neo Geo X. They sound worse than the iCade.)
Ark: I considered that, but I think it'd be just a tad awkward.
Drventure: Yeah, I looked at those. I'll take a second look.

[EMDB]

Scott: Thanks for the link. I had come to similar conclusions. I'm tempted just to leave it with the joysticks.

Speaking of, anyone here use the Magstick plus? Any thoughts on that versus a traditional 4/8 way restrictor?

If you want to play 4 and 8 way games together it's undoable to quickly switch the restrictor plate from the inside of a control panel. Switching the magstick plus from the top is very easy. You must like the non-micro switch stick though. I do. But after playing a while I got annoyed determining which setting to select for every individual game. Especially when having guests over. So I switched to the (also micro switch-less) U360 which is switched automatically from software depending on the selected game...

Not sure if I missed something here but the mag stick plus does use a conventional restricter. It's just that it uses a square restrictor that can be turned for blocking diagonals.
It is not a micro switch less stick though. The magnet part is only for centering rather than using a spring

You are of course right about the MagStick(Plus) having micro-switches. I was mixing my U360 and MagStick Plus experiences. The being able to switch 4/8-way from the top advantage still stands though  ;-)

[paigeoliver]

Most Japanese stuff actually had microswitches all the way back in the 1970s. Nintendo liked to use leaf switch buttons to activate microswitches. The general transition to microswitch based controls started around 1988 and was complete around 1992.

The arcade was too loud back in the old days to hear the clicking for the most part.

Thanks all for the advice.You've definitely given me some food for thought.

Paige: So, if it came down to the choice of CRT vs LCD, sounds like the CRT would be the winner, but tradeoff would be a smaller screen size. Okay, fair enough.
Unstupid: Ah, thank you. That's a good visual. Though I'd imagine part of that screen gets cut off vertically.
MGB: Put it this way: I spent about $50 on the icade and didn't like it because the microswitches were just so stinking LOUD and clicky. and the buttons were a little stiff. But the x-arcade stick isn't bad. It's close, but there's a minor annoyance of hearing the buttons. I'm getting the feeling that leaf switches were more common with the arcades I played in as I don't remember either of those issues. (For reference, my favorite games were made from about 1979-1993. (And as of late, a lot of those are Williams games.) That's not to say I'm entirely opposed to a microswitch, but something as quiet or quieter than the x-arcade solo. (I can already see Paige laughing at the classless noob over here.  ) I am of the opinion that joysticks should not make much noise if any.. (Yeah... don't even get me started on the Neo Geo X. They sound worse than the iCade.)
Ark: I considered that, but I think it'd be just a tad awkward.
Drventure: Yeah, I looked at those. I'll take a second look.

[dcninja]

find a tube tv on craigslist. find an old cab without a board or working monitor in it from an arcade wholesaler or something. Way cheaper. no shipping, less money so you have more money to spend on making her look pretty and the pc and controls. you can build complete cabs for less than $500 by using a former arcade cab... plus the idea that it was a real arcade is way better than some sterile box that someone makes to cash in on our hobby. just my opinion.