NAOMI/MAME Switching Cabinet (with pictures!!!)

[bimm25e]

So in my boredness I have decided that the new NAOMI cabinet I purchased at an auction is going to become my MAME cabinet.  Its a Dynamo HS5 cabinet with a K7000 (25K7193 to be exact).

One of my first headaches I had was sharing the buttons, I was concerned about inputting to both the PC and NAOMI at once and I was even more concerned with voltage problems from having the buttons running through both at once.  I grabbed an old A/B monitor switch from my workplace, the kind with the A/B Dial that passes a VGA and a PS2 port and took it apart, to my Delight, the switch runs completely off of a 32PDT switch (32 poles, double throw)  I was able to use this "dial" to route the control panel to the NAOMI and a USB interface card one at a time.  Most of the time I've spent so far has been creating a harness on the switch that can plug inline with the MOLEX connectors already utilized at the quick detach point between my control panel and CAPCOM I/O.  This works perfectly!  I can switch the button outputs with a quick turn of the dial, I have ONE extra pole set on the switch I want to use to control either the audio or video switching but at this point, just to get it working, I am leaving that piece out of the equation.


I have done more work than this but want to update this thread with the pictures from each step so stay posted, I'll be posting more tonight.

[Dcpmark]

Nice! Can I ask what you paid for the Naomi cab at auction?? I've become obsessed with getting a working 3-screen Sega Strike Fighter cartridge and motherboard and building out a smaller sit-down with 3 LCDs, 2 of them folding.

[bimm25e]

that's so crazy I was thinking of some way to eventually put this in a corner with LCD's on either side making like a "L' with 3 screens and 2 chairs.  This auction was stupid only like 5 bidders and maybe 120 cabs, I killed it and got the cab for $150. 


I would hold off on the "rotary switch" style for now at least, Im getting some weird issues where when I press a button on the USB encoder the screen flickers and the encoder board's power dims/fades/goes out.  Sometimes if it's off releasing the button quickly will make it come back on.  It loses its connection to windows though and fails to reconnect typically after the first connection.

its the "Zero Delay USB" encoders I'm using, my guess is they  can't get their signal through the 24" -16" of wire from the board through the switch to the ground.  I'm not exactly sure though I never took EE.

[Dcpmark]

A working Naomi cab for $150?? Wow!!

[rCadeGaming]

That's a great deal just for the Naomi hardware and game, that's awesome.  What other games are you planning to get for it?  Ikaruga, VF4, and the Guilty Gear series are pretty sweet.  Check out Puyo Puyo Fever, not a lot of people have heard of that one.

Any plans to upgrade the sticks and buttons?

As for the problem with the switch, try cleaning it with some contact cleaner first.  De-oxit gold works well.

[bimm25e]

So I got the switch going, the problem was actually the ground wire on the USB adapter side of the encoder, it was coming out of the pin and only had one thread holding it in place.  Using a button would kill power to the device because the USB connection wasn't strong enough.   With that taken care of the buttons work like a champ now!!   this seems like such a perfect way to handle this and all you really need is a antique VGA switch box.

In retrospect I would have like to allow the video and audio switching to be controlled through the toggle as well, BUT I think I will integrate all 3 as time goes on.  This cabinet is probably destined to never be 100% completed because I'll just keep throwing things into it when i'm bored.

The VGA Switch hangs down through the plywood "shelf" when the cabinet is closed up, this give me easy access through the coin door, I want to get the switching handled through the rotary switch on the control panel....but honestly its so easy this way, from a cost/benefit standpoint I'll probably put if off for a long while.



So, the pictures today are of the slide out "PCB shelf" included in the HS5, The cabinet running mario bros and making my widebody cabinet jealous with its extra 6" diagonal screen size.

I was able to get a PC motherboard, power supply, hard drive, power buttons, usb ports all mounted on the board as well.  If you look carefully you can see the paths I made with the wire, I tried my best to keep audio/video cables away from power cables but Its a cramped space and sacrifices were made.


The VGA switch works like a champ...or it DID work like a champ...until I left the PC hooked through it during a reboot and the BIOS refresh rate fried my K7000    I have a HOT, Vltg Reg, Flyback, Cap Kit in the mail, Im really hoping those parts fix it.  I feel like a real stupid-idiot for breaking this.


So for people following along, the socre is 5-3 with Me in the lead but the cabinet sure rams it home when it gets a point.

I would reccommend using a multi-pole, double throw switch for routing buttons from one device to another,
I would reccommend putting a PC in your NAOMI cabinet, esp if it has a CAPCOM I/O
I would reccommend sorting out PC Boot video modes before completing a project like this.
I would reccommend NEVER EVER EVER watching the windows bootup on your CRT.

[rCadeGaming]

Nice.  I don't know if you've seen my analog gaming setup thread, but I'm a fan of VGA switch boxes.

If 15 pins is enough for your controls as-is, 25 would be plenty to add audio and video.  You can find DB-25 switch boxes for a few dollars.  Try eBay.  They're also called parallel port switches because that's what they were originally designed for, switching printers and such.  You could use a 4-way to add different PCB's or a console or something.  If you had a PC, Naomi, CPS-2, and Neo Geo, that would really be amazing.  After that you could expand further with a CPS-3 and a Sega ST-V!

...or it DID work like a champ...until I left the PC hooked through it during a reboot and the BIOS refresh rate fried my K7000

   Uh oh.  On my TV's it just shows garbage if you feed it 31kHz.  It depends on the display whether that will hurt it or not.  I don't think you hurt the tube though, which is the most important thing.  It should be something fixable on the chassis.

[WindDrake]

If you fed a k7000 31khz, you likely popped the HOT and maybe few resistors. Probably an easy fix.

[bimm25e]

Got the monitor all patched up with some help from Buffet (arcadebuffet.com), that guy really knows his stuff.


I have a rule of thumb that I dont let the PC boot while on the CRT - I am dreading the day someone who isnt me breaks this rule - ignorance is piss.


I had to clean up some shorts on the 24PDT switch but now its working perfectly. I can jump from PC to NAOMI by pressing a button the KVM and turning the dial - takes less than a second and even though its 2 motions instead of 1 its fast enough that I can't complain.



I would totally reccommend doing this, it is so choice.  I'll put up some more pictures tonight after work.

[Brian74]

I am trying to do the same thing with my silver strike bowling and target toss. I would be interested in learning more. Down the road I plan to add golden tee and my mame pc. Subscribed!

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

[Locke141]

Sweet,

Looks good.

[bimm25e]

I am trying to do the same thing with my silver strike bowling and target toss. I would be interested in learning more. Down the road I plan to add golden tee and my mame pc. Subscribed!

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

The CAPCOM I/O already being wired to my cabinet put me MILES ahead of just a standard JAMMA cab - it let me plug the PC's VGA output directly into the cabinet.  you would need something to convert the VGA signal to RGB if you don't have one and wanted to use a PC


if your goal is to switch between trackball PCB's you just need one of these -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jamma-Switcher-6-in-1-PCB-/291023786207?pt=UK_Video_Games_Coin_Operated_MJ&hash=item43c25e90df

I am pissed that these have gone from $100 to $150 in the last 2 months.... Guess I should have bought one in July


if you wire the trackball cables through the unused buttons for Player 2 you should be able to easily switch between the trackball PCB's and everything would work like a champ.  I did something very similar using lightgun PCBs instead of trackball, its the same idea ->http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=271012

[Brian74]

The cab didn't have a monitor, so I am using a tv. Vga to a cga adapter with s-video output. Both games run off its own pc, each pc has a I/O board. The controls have 5 wires and the trackball has 4 plus a hot and a ground. Using a kvm to switch video and audio right now.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

[JoeB]

Thank you for sharing this project.  It is something I was thinking of doing for a while (and actually spent significant $$ to complete, but eventually gave up).  I do have a question for you (see in bold below).  My personal experience in trying the same thing:

- My machine is a Sega New Astro City (much less space than your Woody)
- I managed to mount the MAME PC on an MDF board that slides into the NAC on a pre-existing metal rail ( PC uses JPAC + GroovyMAME to the 29" 15k CRT)
- I installed the Naomi on a separate board that output 31k to 15k via an Ultracade UVC (gives much better picture than running Naomi in interlaced 15k mode) - I used Velcro to mount into inside the machine
- The Naomi has NetDimm - the MAME PC was able to NetBoot games onto the Naomi
- This all fed to a 2 switchers - 1 for video, 1 for controls / sound

On paper it all looked great, and I got all the hardware / software setup and running.  The issues I ran into were:

- NAC is very tight for space! I had to open up the machine every time to switch (wasn't going to drill holes in fiberglass or metal)
- I ran into noise issues - JAMMA harness + VGA cables are very finicky when it comes to cable run lengths. I noticed ghosting / halo when using the switcher in Video (and clean video is my top priority) Have you noticed any video artifacts by passing video through the switcher rather than direct PCB to JAMMA?
- do you have any concern with the Naomi failure? I read somewhere that Naomi boards were know to fail when booting with no CRT attached (or something like that - I forgot the exact details) I assume you boot your PC first?

Ultimately, I gave up and instead I swap the PCBs as they are attached to sliding MDF.  When I want to MAME, I slide the MAME PC into the NAC and hook up (less than 30 seconds).  When I want to NAOMI, same thing (except now running CompactFlash adapter).

[bimm25e]

I wanted to add pictures with my next post but I'll just double up


-I DO have the slightest amount of "noise" using the PC with Soft 15KHz, its totally negligible and only a real ---uvula--- would be looking hard enough to notice it.
  But the NAOMI input still looks perfect - no noise or artifacts like you mention.  I am using a Capcom I/O to interface to the cabinet - the KVM plugs directly into the Capcom I/O and I haven't noticed any video loss at all with this configuration. 


I did take care to route video and audio cables away from power lines - there are a couple spots where my hands were tied and there is a 1" proximity  but I got it as good as possible.  The KVM is connected to the NAOMI with a 6' VGA cable and it have a 6' lead going to the NAOMI and a 6' lead going to the PC so all-in-all its like a 12' VGA cable connecting the active device to the Capcom I/O.  I bought a secondhand KVM but it looks like it wasn't cheap when it was initially bought,  it switches the audio signal as well and I can say that I am an audiophile and I haven't noticed any audio degradation with my setup.

[JoeB]

-I DO have the slightest amount of "noise" using the PC with Soft 15KHz, its totally negligible and only a real ---uvula--- would be looking hard enough to notice it.

So when you plug the monitor directly to the VGA card all the noise goes away? That's the problem I had .. and with 29" CRT it's even MORE noticeable. 
If you want to save/protect your PC, consider getting an ArcadeVGA or JPAC.  Both will prevent 31k from feeding into monitor from PC.

  But the NAOMI input still looks perfect - no noise or artifacts like you mention.  I am using a Capcom I/O to interface to the cabinet - the KVM plugs directly into the Capcom I/O and I haven't noticed any video loss at all with this configuration. 

Naomi native resolution is 31k.  You probably have it set to 15k output.  The way Naomi does it is by cutting the number of lines by half and interlacing the picture.  i.e. you have that horrible flicker! Try to get a solution that will actually scale the image from 31k down to 15k (e.g. UVC) You will get 15k non-interlaced video signal (i.e. 240p video rather than 480i) much cleaner and no flicker.

so all-in-all its like a 12' VGA cable connecting the active device to the Capcom I/O.  I bought a secondhand KVM but it looks like it wasn't cheap when it was initially bought,  it switches the audio signal as well and I can say that I am an audiophile and I haven't noticed any audio degradation with my setup.

Your ears are much more forgiving than your eyes.  I'm confused about your hookup.   your naomi/pc video is hooked up to KVM, and KVM to arcade monitor, right?  What about the buttons? Naomi/pc to KVM, KVM to Sega I/O, Sega I/O to buttons?  This sounds strange because PC shouldn't be able to understand input from Capcom I/O.  Even though it's a "usb" cable between capcom I/O and naomi, it's not real USB. 

Also, is this an active KVM? does it add any lag or amplification? How does handle the many different resolutions that MAME can put out?

[bimm25e]

So when you plug the monitor directly to the VGA card all the noise goes away? That's the problem I had .. and with 29" CRT it's even MORE noticeable. 
If you want to save/protect your PC, consider getting an ArcadeVGA or JPAC.  Both will prevent 31k from feeding into monitor from PC.

         -   No I can't tell a difference with the KVM in line vs. a direct connection

Naomi native resolution is 31k.  You probably have it set to 15k output.  The way Naomi does it is by cutting the number of lines by half and interlacing the picture.  i.e. you have that horrible flicker! Try to get a solution that will actually scale the image from 31k down to 15k (e.g. UVC) You will get 15k non-interlaced video signal (i.e. 240p video rather than 480i) much cleaner and no flicker.

         -   I know that NAOMI (1) supports CGA and VGA - I only have a CGA monitor so it is what it is for me, 15KHz.  There are NO video errors at all when the NAOMI is the active source, there is an extremely negligible issue on the PC source's video where scanlines race across the monitor for about a second every 20 seconds or so (I think it would be fixable with a little more v-hold/h-hold tweaking but its so negligible I don't care right now).  The error exists whether the PC is connected directly to the CAPCOM I/O or if its routed through the KVM


Your ears are much more forgiving than your eyes.  I'm confused about your hookup.   your naomi/pc video is hooked up to KVM, and KVM to arcade monitor, right?  What about the buttons? Naomi/pc to KVM, KVM to Sega I/O, Sega I/O to buttons?  This sounds strange because PC shouldn't be able to understand input from Capcom I/O.  Even though it's a "usb" cable between capcom I/O and naomi, it's not real USB. 

Also, is this an active KVM? does it add any lag or amplification? How does handle the many different resolutions that MAME can put out?


                -   It is a passthrough KVM, the video AND audio are switched through it.   You have skipped some of my posts or you would have noticed where I use a rotary switch to change the buttons from the NAOMI to the PC - each button is ran through the rotary switch individually, the "usb" port on the NAOMI goes right to the Capcom I/O


to switch I press the button on the KVM and then turn the rotary switch that switches the buttons from the NAOMI to a couple USB encoders I have routed to the PC.