Groovymame Sound Stutters

[rawbe]

Hello-
I am sure I missing something here but I have installed latest Groovymame with up to date VMmaker. I have windows xp pro sp3 and an Arcadevga hooked up to a WG k7000.

I put k7000 in vmmaker ini and created my resolutions. Also put k7000 for monitor in mame ini. When i open a game the vertical is awesome!!! Unfortunately my horizontal games has borders. Street Fighter has borders horizontal and vertical.

I checked to see if my monitor needed adjusting but the H. shift was no help.

Any suggestions?
Robbie

[Gamemaster86]

If I understand Groovymame correctly, it creates resolutions (based on the VMMaker ones) on the fly, to get the best for a particular ROM. As you are using an ArcadeVGA it is only capable of using the fixed resolutions that you can see when clicking on the the galaga icon on the taskbar. Whereas if you're using the CRT EMU driver and VMMaker you can achieve over 100 resolutions which are more likley to fill the screen.

THe whole point of the ArcadeVGA is that it's a simple setup so you don't have to run things like VMMaker as it won't be able to use all the generated resolutions anyway. So you best bet is to use the arcade_15 monitor type in mame.ini

Sorry if I've understood this all wrong!

[rawbe]

I am sorry that I forgot to put in my post that I am using CRT EMU drivers.  I also have tried Generic_15 in mame ini with the same result.

[Gamemaster86]

So you're using the CRT Emu drivers with an ArcadeVGA card? Didn't think that would work unless you've flashed it back to the original Bios?

[rawbe]

To my understanding CRT EMU Driver Catalyst 6.5 is compatible with ArcadeVGA 9250. Attached is my make.ini and vmmaker.ini Any help?

[Gamemaster86]

Ignore me, you're completely right 

Have you tried using the H-Size control?

[rawbe]

H-size is the only adjustment I haven't tried. I do not have the proper adjustment tool to attempt at this time. I wanted to make sure it wasn't a resolution setting first. Sidenote: When I enter Windows XP it fills the screen with no issues.

[Gamemaster86]

I don't think you can use "K7000" as a monitor type in VMMaker according to this page anyway http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,116023.0.html

The K7000 preset works in MAME.ini but not in VMMaker. I think you need to use "Custom" and then further down enter the specs for your K7000 after the monitor specs0 line.
Unfortunately I don't know these values so someone else may be able to help here.

[rawbe]

I just found epicfatigue's post stating, "Looking like you might be able to make a preset value for K7000"

monitor_specs0 15625-15800, 49.50-63.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 288, 448

I will try as you suggested (CUSTOM preset in vmmaker) asap. Also, which do you suggest:  Static Table / Dynamic Table / Magic Table

[Gamemaster86]

Well I'd choose Dynamic is not using hyperspin or Magic if you are.

The description is written in the VMMaker file

[rawbe]

Thanks for your help! Will give an update later today.

[wglong]

Please update with your findings. I'm in the same boat trying to setup Groovymame with a WG K7000 and an ATI card.

[rawbe]

After trying "k7000" in mame.ini and "CUSTOM"in vmmaker.ini. I get the same results. The games are changing resolutions but no horizontal game fills the edge. I guess it's a monitor issue?

[rawbe]

Anyone have any suggestions?

[Calamity]

Hi rawbe,

The easiest way to do adjust the picture width for a standard fixed frequency arcade monitor is doing it on the monitor itself, by means of H-Size and H-Shift/H-Center.

You can also modify the default k7000 preset to fit your current monitor adjustment by changing the relative values of H Front Porch and H Back Porch in the crt_range line.

But I'd try the first option first.

[rawbe]

Calamity-
I received my tv adjustment tools in the mail and adjusted the H coil. Looks good!! I could still see making some minor adjustments for my horizontal games.

Thanks!

[epicfatigue]

i think your issue was in mame.ini you should have had custom in there and put in the specs aswell.

[rawbe]

epicfatigue- Check your PM.

wglong- I will update my post when I complete my setup. Hopefully that will be soon! I did need to adjust my horizontal width.

[Calamity]

Hi rawbe,

You can often get a finer horizontal centering by using the 'dotclock_min 8.0' option in mame.ini.

[rawbe]

Thanks Calamity.... Do I also put that setting in VMMaker.ini?

[rawbe]

I have my video card outputting the right resolutions. Looks great!!! Now it seems my audio lags more with Groovymame. This seems odd since it worked fine with mame 142. I have tried reducing audio latency and sample rate. Also, I have put Advanced sound settings in my OS to the "best settings." My computer is a duo core 4gb ram tower. May be too slow for Groovymame?

[Calamity]

Hi rawbe,

Please post a log of a game with stuttering sound:

groovymame romname -v >romname.txt

[rawbe]

Calamity-

Attached are two sound stuttering games. Thanks for your help!

[rawbe]

Anyone have any experience with this?

[Calamity]

Hi rawbe,

Are you using the -frame_delay option? If so, may you try disabling it to see if it fixes the sound problem?

[rawbe]

I have tried  -frame_delay. I didn't like the lag in gameplay. How do the logs look? Is my PC fast enough?

[Calamity]

Hi rawbe,

What I need to know is if you had -frame_delay enabled when you got those logs, because they look fine except for galaga running at 108% which seems to point to an issue that happens when you have -frame_delay set to a too low value. When using -frame_delay the soundsync feature gets disabled. This means that you need to achieve a perfect refresh to avoid sound stuttering. This is not possible with the AVGA 3000 because the refresh rates are fixed, unless you use ArcadePerfect or Powerstrip. So in this situation it's better to have -frame_delay turn off, and if possible use -video ddraw that is less laggy than -video d3d in the -frame_delay off scenario.

[rawbe]

I am using an ati 9600 video card. Will check other options ASAP.

[Calamity]

Ok sorry, I read the fist post in this thread and thought you were still using the AVGA.

[rawbe]

Those logs are without Frame Delay enabled. I have tried frame delay with and without with the same results. I have tried multiple sound settings with latency, triple buffer, and samples. I'm stuck.

[Calamity]

Have you tried setting syncrefresh and triplebuffer to 0 in mame.ini, then launching groovymame from command line forcing the -syncrefresh option?

[rawbe]

Calamity-
I tried command line with the same results. After testing different options I find only having syncfresh enabled and and triple buffer set to 0 I achieve smooth sound. My question is with syncfresh enabled is the game running at original speed?

[rawbe]

After enabling -syncrefresh galaga's average speed dropped to 86.71%. Attached is the game log.

[Calamity]

That's completely normal, rawbe. At 288p you can only do 52.3 Hz, so if you syncrefresh you're going to see a proportional speed drop. That's why, by default, the mame.ini file created by GroovMAME contains:

syncrefresh 0
triplebuffer 0

... so that either one is automatically selected when required. So for galaga, triplebuffer would be the option. Both options are mutually exclusive. This means that if you force any of them in mame.ini, GroovyMAME won't be able to pick the other one when needed.

I suspect you were messing with -frame_delay at first when you got those logs. If things are fine when you enable -syncrefresh in mame.ini, they should be fine too without doing it and letting GM decide.

The problem comes when you enable -frame_delay globally. This shouldn't be done, because -frame_delay doesn't play well with -triplebuffer. So unless you're possitive that -triplebuffer is never going to be used, e.g. by forcing -syncrefresh in mame.ini, you should only use -frame_delay for specific games in their respective .ini files.

[rawbe]

Calamity-
Thank you for your reply. Your explanation makes sense. I guess when I launch Galaga GM is picking Triple Buffer and that is effecting the music. I never planned on having .ini files with GM since GM is designed to do all the work but now I understand how it is setup. Thanks!

1. Should I have Multithreading enabled in GM's .ini? I have read this could effect GM's decision making when deciding onTriple Buffer or Syncrefresh.

2. Is the Soundsync built into GM? I do not see a setting to enable this option.

Thank you again for your advice!

[Calamity]

Thank you for your reply. Your explanation makes sense. I guess when I launch Galaga GM is picking Triple Buffer and that is effecting the music. I never planned on having .ini files with GM since GM is designed to do all the work but now I understand how it is setup. Thanks!

Triple buffering is designed so it does NOT affect the music. You should have galaga running at 100% with perfect sound when using triple buffering.
On the other hand, syncrefresh involves soundsync so music pitch is modified to match the emulation speed.

I suggest you to start from scratch, create a fresh mame.ini file by using the -cc param, and *only* edit the monitor type and rom paths. Then run galaga again. It should be picking triple buffering automatically and sound should be perfect. If that is not the case, then something odd is going on.

1. Should I have Multithreading enabled in GM's .ini? I have read this could effect GM's decision making when deciding onTriple Buffer or Syncrefresh

Yes, the triple buffer implementation in GM requires -multithreading to be enabled in order to work.

2. Is the Soundsync built into GM? I do not see a setting to enable this option.

It's built in the syncrefresh feature. There's no option to enable/disable it, this is intentional.

[Calamity]

I never planned on having .ini files with GM since GM is designed to do all the work

That's true in general. It's just -frame_delay is an experimental option, and it's become popular recently because it does make a difference regarding input lag, but it's something that shouldn't be used unless one understands how it works, and each games requires specific settings. It would be nice to have an automatic -frame_delay but it's not implemented yet

[rawbe]

So I created a new mame.ini and did as you instructed and Galaga still has sound issues. I guess something odd is happening. So I started with a fresh Mame download and reinstalled GM and same problem. Since I am an audio guy it really bothers me.

[Calamity]

Hi rawbe,

I don't know what hardware you're running this on. However, I tested this myself on a P4 and there were sound issues indeed, specifically during the first explosion sound after the grid pattern. In my case, it turns out it's a cpu issue, because I can see a noticeable speed drop (pressing f11, speed percentage) that happens at the same time as the sound stutters.

[rawbe]

After testing Galaga with 3 different versions of Mame and different game sets I find I had no sound skips. When I installed GM with a fresh mame -cc I get sound imperfections. I have tried enabling triple buffer but get the same results.