6 buttons

[Richardgregory]

Im looking at CPs here on this forum and getting a mix of button placement. Most of you have the 6 buttons configured 3 across and 3 below all lined up symetrical.   Others have the button 1 and 4 angled.

From a playability point of view which is better and does it make a difference. 

[Unstupid]

Oh No... Now you did it... You shouldn't have opened that can of worms!   

[Richardgregory]

. Let the debate begin?  If I recall growing up with arcade cabs I don't recall anything other than symmetrical laid out buttons.

[CoryBee]

I prefer curved, but it is all up to you. There is no better way in my opinion. Only what is best for you.

Cut holes in a piece of a cardboard box and put your buttons in. Then figure for yourself what is most comfortable.

 

[Richardgregory]

I don't know believe there's any ergonomic standards in arcades, but I suppose one would be less a strain on the hands after lengthy play. 

[severdhed]

There is no right answer. Make a cardboard panel and test both to see what you like best. Personally, I like the curved layout. I think it is more comfortable for long periods of time, plus if you are slightly off center when drilling your button holes it is much less noticeable with a curved layout. A misplaced button in a straight row sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Malenko]

There is no right answer. Make a cardboard panel and test both to see what you like best. Personally, I like the curved layout. I think it is more comfortable for long periods of time, plus if you are slightly off center when drilling your button holes it is much less noticeable with a curved layout. A misplaced button in a straight row sticks out like a sore thumb.

There is a right answer, you just typed it.

[shiori1425]

It should look like this.

Best.CP.Ever

[paigeoliver]

No one will ever be sad if you just do the standard straight 2x3 rows. Some guys might prefer the curved row but unless they grew up in Japan during the late 1990s they would have learned to play on the straight 2x3 rows.

No one will ever get lost on the standard 2x3 layout. No one will find themselves unable to play properly.

The same cannot be said for the curved layout.

Full disclosure.

I have a mame cabinet with the common BYOAC very curved layout. I hate it, hate it, hate it.

I also have a Candy cabinet with the standard very mild curve that they usually have. It doesn't bother me, but it is so mild it might as well not be there.

I grew up in America and never saw a curved button layout cabinet in an actual arcade until 2013.

[Richardgregory]

I'm thinking from a comfort and if I dare say "ergonomic" point of view, it almost makes sense that the buttons be curved......

Ok, taking that aside, from a gameplay perspective, are there any advantages or deficiencies from using a 2 X 3 row vs the curve.  I don't have any experience seeing both worlds, so it'll be up to the folks here to chip in.

[jdbailey1206]

Richard,

What I have found and did myself was find a rigid piece of cardboard or a good solid shoe box and "dry fit" your button configuration and see how it feels.  I personally like the "ergonomic", because, like everyone has said, it feels better when you get into your fourth hour of any vs fighter.  Also by doing this you can, if you haven't already get a feel on how to properly crimp and route your wires if you want to make your temporary joystick playable.

[spoot]

It should look like this.

Best.CP.Ever

My eyes!!!!!   

[yotsuya]

I have a mame cabinet with the common BYOAC very curved layout. I hate it, hate it, hate it.

You've mentioned that before. I'm curious exactly how curved your layout it? The Slagcoin one is curved. but not THAT bad.

[paigeoliver]

It should look like this.

Best.CP.Ever

I know that LOOKS random, but that is actually a very bad attempt at an ergonomic layout. The red-green-darkgreen (with the black button below) cluster is probably supposed to be 3 fingers and a thumb. The odd buttons clustered around the stick are probably meant to be hit with the same hand the controls the stick (the pair at the top are probably rotate-left and rotate-right for console games and Xybots) while the red one below is probably the reverse button for Defender.

The red and black buttons adjoining the spinner are up and down for discs of tron.

And the joysticks are angled because bad ideas generally come in groups.

[emphatic]

Required reading: http://slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html

[paigeoliver]

Required reading: http://slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html

Has some misinformation and is extremely biased towards curved layouts.

It calls the 3x2 the layout the "American Street Fighter Layout" which it is not, it is THE Street Fighter layout, both America and Japan. There is even a picture of it on the Japanese flyer.

The whole curved button layout is superior idea rests on 4 assumptions.

#1. Every American company has been doing buttons wrong since the dawn of arcade games.

#2. The majority of Japanese companies (including CAPCOM) did buttons wrong until the fighting game craze was actually already OVER.

#3. The curved button layouts were designed for playability and not because you couldn't get 4 buttons in a row (Neo Geo) on existing late 80s Japanese cabinet control panel inserts without dropping one down a little bit to free up a couple of millimeters of space. Some of these ERGONOMIC machines actually had left hand on the joystick for player one and right hand for player 2.

#4. That a group of people who as a whole are Japanophiles are right when they say something Japanese is better than something American.

[Malenko]

#4. That a group of people who as a whole are Japanophiles are right when they say something Japanese is better than something American.

Lots of American "bashing" in there. I didnt know I SNAAAKE wasnt any good at fighting games because he's american.

[paigeoliver]

Also, the other major important detail.

You are going to find that most people who prefer the curved layouts have a background in playing fighting games not in the arcade but on the consoles playstation era or later, using an aftermarket fighter stick. Almost all of those had curved layouts because they were manufactured in Japan to match the layouts on the Japanese cabinets. However if that is you then you already know it and you wouldn't even be asking what layout to use.

At no point is anything in my posts bashing anyone's fighting game skills.

Most people are really going to prefer what they are used to.

If your main gaming experience was fighters on your PS2 with an aftermarket controller then you will probably want the whole japanese control experience, dime store joysticks, convex buttons, and curved layout.

If you played your fighting games on an actual arcade machine then you are probably going to be happier with the traditional Capcom layout and the more durable american joysticks.

[severdhed]

this is always such a heated debate.  i think the curved layout is superior for the following reasons:

1. It is more comfortable for extended periods of time
2. It is more aesthetically pleasing...i think it just looks nicer
3. it is more forgiving with minor miscalculations in drilling.

sure, it is not as arcade authentic as a straight layout, but neither are LCD monitors, RGB buttons, glowing trackballs or many of the things people use on their cabinets.  Just because these things weren't used on commercial arcade cabinets doesn't mean that they are inferior.  If you are going to make something like an arcade cabinet to have in your home, why not customize it the way you like, instead of limiting yourself just because of tradition? 

the argument about the curved layout being confusing is a little ridiculous.  I have never had anyone walk up to my cabinet and feel confused....even the 3 and 4 year olds that use it have no difficulty at all.  maybe if you or your friends are the kind of people who play fighting games competitively, then you may have an issue deviating from the standard, but if that is the case, you wouldn't be here asking this question.


Make a cardboard mockup, test out a few layouts and determine what feels best to you, and screw everyone else, because ultimately it is your cabinet.  I can see getting complaints if you put the joysticks on the right of the buttons or something crazy like that, but a curved layout is not going to bother anyone.

[yotsuya]

I have never had anyone walk up to my cabinet and feel confused....even the 3 and 4 year olds that use it have no difficulty at all.

Amen. Once they know what button is button #1, everything else is easy.

[Monkeyvoodoo]

Make a cardboard mockup, test out a few layouts and determine what feels best to you, and screw everyone else, because ultimately it is your cabinet.

This right here +n

[Malenko]

At no point is anything in my posts bashing anyone's fighting game skills.

not you, the "article" that was linked to.

Often when you see players using this panel, they are pressing every button with their index and middle finger when the index finger should cover the first column, the middle the second, and the ring the third. This common poor layout is another reason Americans tend not to complete well in fighting games .

[paigeoliver]

Oh, I totally missed that.

Americans aren't as good at fighting games because the scene (and thus the talent pool) is a lot smaller than it is in Japan and Korea. It is the same reason why third world countries can beat America at soccer.

At no point is anything in my posts bashing anyone's fighting game skills.

not you, the "article" that was linked to.

Often when you see players using this panel, they are pressing every button with their index and middle finger when the index finger should cover the first column, the middle the second, and the ring the third. This common poor layout is another reason Americans tend not to complete well in fighting games .

[nordemoniac]

Oh No... Now you did it... You shouldn't have opened that can of worms!   

Hahaha, so true! 

Required reading: http://slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html

I found this site very helpful, not just for layout, but generally about Arcades.
Btw. I went for the sega layout, as this matched my fingers perfectly. And I think it looks kinda nice. It seems like the whole design is based on the 6 buttons being rotated a bit, then pulling the two left most buttons vertically down, so the 4 buttons are actually in a square, but rotated.
As of the original 8-button layout, I think it looks a bit messy.
You can see it on my budget upright project (not finished) and the Weecade Bubble Bobble (design process).

[Locke141]

Americans aren't as good at fighting games because the scene (and thus the talent pool) is a lot smaller than it is in Japan and Korea. It is the same reason why third world countries can beat America at soccer.

Third world countries is no longer concreted politically correct. I live in a developing country and local people don't like being described as living in the third world.

That being sad, your analogy is spot on. I'm now re thinking the angled lay out.

[Rick]

Make a mockup, and find what's best for you. For me, I'm right handed, and I've always played cross-armed. I have my right hand on the joystick, and left fingers working the buttons. So, for me, the whole 'curved' aspect is a bit annoying. YMMV.

[Richardgregory]

Clearly I did open a can of worms for debate 

I've decided to go for a in between curve and straight layout.  The last 2 buttons and the next row of the 2 buttons will be symetrica(a block of 4 buttons)l.  The first button will be placed down somewhat as with in the second row.